Pope: Saving world from homosexuality like saving rainforests

[Nihilismus]

Sex between a married man and woman isn't an issue for anyone. God has blessed that. Sex between unmarried persons, and/or sex between persons of the same gender is the issue. God has NOT blessed that.

Evidence?

 

[a.d.ivNonasNovembres]

I have been arguing with my friend about various stuff, and this latest statement by the Pope is related but not the same as our discussions, but basically my conclusion is the same.
These diametrically opposed world views cannot be reconciled. Catholic and Secular Humanist. They have such a different sensibility, such different "axioms" from which their conclusions are drawn, and different (although not to the same extent as the other things, both for instance take much from Aristotelian logic) methods for drawing conclusions out of axioms, that trying to come to some kind of understanding which is not based upon conversion is impossible.

And the problem with that is... we have to live together... both groups are too powerful for there to be some kind of civil war between us - it would be too destructive.

 

[bsd13]

Evidence?

Here's 3 for you. God's word against homosexual relations, both OT and NT in case anyone thinks that has changed.-

Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."

Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Romans 1:26,27 - "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."

Genesis 19 - How God dealt with two ancient cities full of perversion.

 

[bsd13]

I have been arguing with my friend about various stuff, and this latest statement by the Pope is related but not the same as our discussions, but basically my conclusion is the same.
These diametrically opposed world views cannot be reconciled. Catholic and Secular Humanist. They have such a different sensibility, such different "axioms" from which their conclusions are drawn, and different (although not to the same extent as the other things, both for instance take much from Aristotelian logic) methods for drawing conclusions out of axioms, that trying to come to some kind of understanding which is not based upon conversion is impossible.

And the problem with that is... we have to live together... both groups are too powerful for there to be some kind of civil war between us - it would be too destructive.

What you call the "Catholic" view is really the Christian view. It's universal among all Bible believing Christians. To clarify what I mean is some people who profess Christ don't necessarily believe the Bible. They view it as more of a "guide" than a law book which is set in stone.

 

[a.d.ivNonasNovembres]

What you call the "Catholic" view is really the Christian view. It's universal among all Bible believing Christians. To clarify what I mean is some people who profess Christ don't necessarily believe the Bible. They view it as more of a "guide" than a law book which is set in stone.

I wanted to write Christian but some Christians would disagree so I didn't want to draw them under a banner they didn't want to be under in the first place.

 

[bsd13]

I wanted to write Christian but some Christians would disagree so I didn't want to draw them under a banner they didn't want to be under in the first place.

I'm not so sensitive.

 

[Nihilismus]

Here's 3 for you. God's word against homosexual relations, both OT and NT in case anyone thinks that has changed.-

Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."

Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Romans 1:26,27 - "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."

Genesis 19 - How God dealt with two ancient cities full of perversion.

Evidence that is the word of God?

 

[angellica]

Evidence that is the word of God?

What would constitute proof, in your opinion, that something is the Word of God?

 

[Nathan45]

To clarify what I mean is some people who profess Christ don't necessarily believe the Bible. They view it as more of a "guide" than a law book which is set in stone.

and how is this view is unscriptural?

 

[Nihilismus]

What would constitute proof, in your opinion, that something is the Word of God?

More than a moldy tome picked at random from a plethora of other moldy tomes, at the very least.

 

[angellica]

More than a moldy tome picked at random from a plethora of other moldy tomes, at the very least.

Can you be more specific? What would it take to "prove" that something is the Word of God?

 

[bsd13]

and how is this view is unscriptural?

If you read the Bible you'd know. I'll leave it for you to study up on. Since you are genuinely interested, no doubt.

 

[bsd13]

Can you be more specific? What would it take to "prove" that something is the Word of God?

There is no proof for him. His mind is darkened, only God can open his eyes, ears, and heart.

 

[Nihilismus]

So, in other words, you have nothing?

 

[Nathan45]

What would constitute proof, in your opinion, that something is the Word of God?

To be honest i don't think anything could at this point. If God came up to me and told me he wrote it himself, i'd probably call a shrink.

Eitherway if you're going to purport something is the "Word of God" it probably shouldn't contradict itself so often. Let me give you some examples:

Compare the Genealogies in Matthew 1 to the one in Luke 3.
All the names in the genealogy are different. You can also compare the matthew genealogy to the one of solomon in 1 chronicles 3, several names are skipped.

Yet, matthew 1:17 counts the generations (14 + 14 + 14 generations). So even if the genealogies are allowed to skip names, the generational count in Mt 1:17 cannot be correct by any reconciliation.

another example: The "Suicide" or accidental death of Judas, and what he did with his 30 pieces of silver.

acts 1:16-18

Judas, who became a guide for those who arrested Jesus— 17for he was numbered among us and was allotted his share in this ministry.’ 18(Now this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out.

Compare to Matthew 27:3-5

When Judas, his betrayer, saw that Jesus was condemned, he repented and brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders. 4He said, ‘I have sinned by betraying innocent blood.’ But they said, ‘What is that to us? See to it yourself.’ 5Throwing down the pieces of silver in the temple, he departed; and he went and hanged himself.

The two contradictions in these passages, (1)what happened to the silver, and (2) how judas died, are highlighted in red and blue respectively.

 

[Nathan45]

If you read the Bible you'd know. I'll leave it for you to study up on. Since you are genuinely interested, no doubt.

I was hoping you could point to a (not counting OT) verse that says you should treat the bible like law book set in stone, because i know of a few that say the opposite.

 

[angellica]

So, in other words, you have nothing?

Could you be more specific on what it would take to prove or disprove something as the Word of God?

 

[Washington]

bsd13:

"Sex between a married man and woman isn't an issue for anyone. God has blessed that. Sex between unmarried persons, and/or sex between persons of the same gender is the issue. God has NOT blessed that."
​

Nihilismus:

"Evidence?"
​

bsd13:

"Here's 3 for you. God's word against homosexual relations, both OT and NT in case anyone thinks that has changed.-

Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."

Romans 1:26,27 - "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."
​

But do you personally go along with this? That what's written in the OT is pretty binding? That if it says a man who lies with a man as one lies with a woman is detestable, then it is?

 

[Washington]

Could you be more specific on what it would take to prove or disprove something as the Word of God?

What evidence proves it to you?

 

[angellica]

bsd13:

"Sex between a married man and woman isn't an issue for anyone. God has blessed that. Sex between unmarried persons, and/or sex between persons of the same gender is the issue. God has NOT blessed that."
​

Nihilismus:

"Evidence?"
​

bsd13:

"Here's 3 for you. God's word against homosexual relations, both OT and NT in case anyone thinks that has changed.-

Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."

Romans 1:26,27 - "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."
​

But do you personally go along with this? That what's written in the OT is pretty binding? That if it says a man who lies with a man as one lies with a woman is detestable, then it is?

Romans is NT.