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Pope, King of the world?

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ticker

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Pope, King of the world?

...and if part of the job description meant that you have to basically believe that stuff about yourself, then there's probably no other Christian in the world I'd rather be than the Pope.

'Cause boy...would I be setting myself up for a harsh wake up call.
 
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WarriorAngel

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Well, here is another way to put this...
Jesus built His Church upon Peter - and then Peter is the Rock of His Church...

And we are Christians - and our world is of Christ - and not the secular society...
IT is absolutely and positively true to say the Pope is king of the world.

FOR he holds the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven.

Believe it or dont - like it or hate it - Jesus didnt hide the position he set upon Peter and the Seat of his successors.

Dems the breaks kiddos.
 
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simonthezealot

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Number #30 means that the Pope has the authority to alter scripture. I would like to remind everyone that it was the papacy that canonized scripture. And so when I speak out against certain doctrines, I get the deer in the headlight look. Learn to read between the line people. Some times what is not said is as important as what has been said.
Interpretting and declaring divine law is MUCH more than altering scripture, which in itself would be going to far... There was NO papacy at the point of canonization, that is pure historical revisionism better left for another thread.
 
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GuardianShua

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Well, here is another way to put this...
Jesus built His Church upon Peter - and then Peter is the Rock of His Church...

And we are Christians - and our world is of Christ - and not the secular society...
IT is absolutely and positively true to say the Pope is king of the world.

FOR he holds the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven.

Believe it or dont - like it or hate it - Jesus didnt hide the position he set upon Peter and the Seat of his successors.

Dems the breaks kiddos.

Since there is proof of the Popes altering scripture, then I would presume that that is just another place that was CANonized.
 
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GuardianShua

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Interpretting and declaring divine law is MUCH more than altering scripture, which in itself would be going to far... There was NO papacy at the point of canonization, that is pure historical revisionism better left for another thread.

Commandments​
Protestant:First Catholic:Second Hebrew:third
1Pr. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
1Ca. I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not have strange gods before me.
1He. I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.


2Pr.Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and (keep my commandments).
2Ca.Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
2He.Thou shalt have no other gods before Me. Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor any manner of likeness, of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; Thou shalt not bow down unto them, nor serve them; for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me; And showing mercy unto the thousandth generation of them that love Me and (keep My commandments).

3Pr.Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain: for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
3Ca.Remember thou keep the Sabbath Day.
3He.Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh His name in vain.

4Pr. (Remember) the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
4Ca. Honor thy Father and thy Mother.
4He.(Remember)the sabbath day to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work. But the seventh day is the sabbath in honor of the Lord thy God; on it thou shalt not do any work, neither thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

5Pr.Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
5Ca.Thou shalt not kill.
5He.Honour thy father and thy mother in order that thy days may be prolonged upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.

6Pr.Thou shalt not kill.
6Ca.Thou shalt not commit adultery.
6He.Thou shalt not kill.

7Pr.Thou shalt not commit adultery.
7Ca.Thou shalt not steal.
7He.Thou shalt not commit adultery.

8Pr.Thou shalt not steal.
8Ca.Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
8He.Thou shalt not steal.

9Pr.Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
9Ca.Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors wife.
9He.Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

10Pr. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's.
10Ca.Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's goods.
10He.Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house; thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's.

Daniel 7:25. He will think to change times and laws.
 
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simonthezealot

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Commandments​

Protestant:First Catholic:Second Hebrew:third

2Pr.Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and (keep my commandments).
2Ca.Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
2He.Thou shalt have no other gods before Me. Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor any manner of likeness, of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; Thou shalt not bow down unto them, nor serve them; for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me; And showing mercy unto the thousandth generation of them that love Me and (keep My commandments).
Astounding isn't it?
 
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GuardianShua

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1 John 5
6This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7For there are three that testify: 8the[a] Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. 9We accept man's testimony, but God's testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
Concluding Remarks
13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.

16If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. 17All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

18We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him. 19We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. 20We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

21Dear children, keep yourselves from idols.

Footnotes:

1. 1 John 5:8 Late manuscripts of the Vulgate testify in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. 8 And there are three that testify on earth: the (not found in any Greek manuscript before the sixteenth century)
 
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simonthezealot

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Why, because he linked to a document he doesn't understand? If that's thinking, then I'm Einstein
You sure seem to know alot about what you think I know, I do understand most of the weak parts of romes theology, which are MANY actually most of her doctrines... I recommend you take a peek at those.
 
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Uphill Battle

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King?

nah. With that robe, I've always considered him more of the emperor type.
emperors-new-school-300-032707.jpg
 
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DD2008

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"Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff."

This is the last sentance of Unam Sanctum.

It is one of the many reasons I have decided to leave the Roman Catholic Church. This statement is absolutley indefensable and should be withdrawn. It contradicts scripture.

There is a doctrine of papal infallability from Rome (which I personally don't believe). This statement is considered by many in the Church to be an infallable papal statement.

I could not reject this statement with any greater certainty that it is a falsehood and should not be uttered by a leader of a Christian body.

Salvation is by the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 2:8-9

[8] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God --
[9] not because of works, lest any man should boast.
 
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Uphill Battle

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they CAN'T withdraw. It's infallible, don't you know.

all they can do is tell you what it "really" means.

or did you not know that as a Christian, you're already under his authority, even if you don't acknowledge it?
 
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StreetPreacher82

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"Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff."

This is the last sentance of Unam Sanctum.

It is one of the many reasons I have decided to leave the Roman Catholic Church. This statement is absolutley indefensable and should be withdrawn. It contradicts scripture.

There is a doctrine of papal infallability from Rome (which I personally don't believe). This statement is considered by many in the Church to be an infallable papal statement.

I could not reject this statement with any greater certainty that it is a falsehood and should not be uttered by a leader of a Christian body.

Salvation is by the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 2:8-9

[8] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God --
[9] not because of works, lest any man should boast.

Amen.

I think there are many things the Catholics have right, but this is one of the many they have wrong. To some extent, we all have something wrong in our theology. We are all human and are all part of a fallen race. Therefore, no one has it exactly right.

On top of it (sorry to say it Catholic and Protestant friends) there are just as many saved folks that are Protestant as Catholic. I just don't see God limiting us to a group/denomination. We'd be better off to shed the stupid differences and work together as the body of Christ. One can dream I guess.

:holy:
 
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DD2008

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Amen.

I think there are many things the Catholics have right, but this is one of the many they have wrong. To some extent, we all have something wrong in our theology. We are all human and are all part of a fallen race. Therefore, no one has it exactly right.

On top of it (sorry to say it Catholic and Protestant friends) there are just as many saved folks that are Protestant as Catholic. I just don't see God limiting us to a group/denomination. We'd be better off to shed the stupid differences and work together as the body of Christ. One can dream I guess.

:holy:


I agree. :) I believe that we should be striving for unity as Christ prayed in John 17.
 
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Sphinx777

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they CAN'T withdraw. It's infallible, don't you know.

all they can do is tell you what it "really" means.


or did you not know that as a Christian, you're already under his authority, even if you don't acknowledge it?

Most of the Sedevacantist Catholic groups explicitly reject such an overly broadened interpretation...


Link


:angel:
 
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GuardianShua

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Amen.

I think there are many things the Catholics have right, but this is one of the many they have wrong. To some extent, we all have something wrong in our theology. We are all human and are all part of a fallen race. Therefore, no one has it exactly right.

On top of it (sorry to say it Catholic and Protestant friends) there are just as many saved folks that are Protestant as Catholic. I just don't see God limiting us to a group/denomination. We'd be better off to shed the stupid differences and work together as the body of Christ. One can dream I guess.

:holy:
Well I'm all in favor of the Seven Thunders.
 
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SecretOfFatima

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"The one who listens to you listens to Me, and the one who rejects you rejects Me; and he who rejects Me rejects the One who sent Me." Luke 10:16

Please let me try to clarify some points about what we Catholics truly believe
(note: what we believe can be backed up by scripture).

Christ is the King, Mary is the Queen, the Church is the Bride of Christ and the Pope holds the position of Prime minister, Jesus himself gave saint Peter the Keys (authority) by saying: I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Before I continue and dwelve into a deeper explanation please let me also say that we Catholics believe that only Christ is saviour, the Holy Father(Pope) is not our saviour, but we truly believe in the autority of the church (unlike thousands of protestant denominations and secs that cannot fully agreed in all matters, hence why such churches keep breaking and multiplying when someone does not agreed with something), I would go further and say that my perception on behalf of us Catholics is that all forces who may fight against the authority given to the Holy Father are simply doing the work of the enemy (satan himself). I certainaly do not believe the the pope is in any away above our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Himself, the same goes for all other Catholics that I have known, however the perception by those outside the church is typical of comments taken out of context like yours.


So here is an explanation:

1-Jesus gave only to Peter the Keys of the kingdom in Matthew 16

Jesus asked his disciples "Who do people say that the Son of Man is?" The disciples then offered various answers - "Some say John the Baptist, others Elijah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets." But the question that Jesus then asked was crucial: "But who do you say that I am?"

The answer provided by Simon Peter set in motion the formation of the Catholic Church by Jesus. "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God." With this answer, Jesus established the Catholic Church with Simon Peter designated the first Pope.

"Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Many try to imply that it was Peter's faith on which Jesus established the Church. But closer examination of the words of Jesus reveal that the selection was of divine nature.

"For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father." His knowledge of Jesus was not the reason for Peter's confession to the true identity but it was the fact that it had been revealed to him by God. In the words of Jesus gives Peter his new name - "The Rock". A foundation on which his Church will be built.

Many separated from the Catholic Church cling to the notion that the Church was built on the faith of Peter and not him as a man as justification for their position. Unfortunately, their understanding is incorrect.

The bible is full of references to the need for respect of authority. It is also full of references for the need for unity. In one parable Jesus is explaining how he could not be of Satanic origin (Mark 3:22), "How can Satan drive out Satan?" In this parable he points out the importance of leadership. "If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand." Throughout the scripture we always see - One God, One Son, One Holy Spirit, One Church.

2-Jesus' words in Matthew are a QUOTATION of the Old Testament.


Matthew 16 says:
"I will give to you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
This is a quote of Isaiah 22:22
Isaiah 22:19-22 reads:
"I will thrust you from your office (speaking of Shebna who is the Prime Minister of the kingdom) and pull you down from your station. On that day I will summon my servant Eliakin, son of Hilkiah; I will clothe him with your robe, and gird him with your sash, and give over to him your authority. He shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah. I will place the key of the House of David on his shoulder; when he opens, no one shall shut, when he shuts, no one shall open."
We learn from this passage several things (which, by the way, all Protestant scholars that I know of admit these points on the Isaiah passage) &#8230;.

1) The keys are a symbol of the authority given to the chief official &#8211; the Prime Minister.

2) The Prime Minister is a father-figure (note: Pope is "father" (papa) in Italian)

3) The office implies dynastic succession


The office of Prime Minister continued as long as the Kingdom of David continued. The king is still the king, but the King has his Prime Minister to help administer the Kingdom for him.

Peter was the first Prime Minister of what is commonly called the "new covenant".

In addition, there was a Prime Minister in the Old Testament days too. It was the Chair of Moses. Those who sat in the Chair of Moses were the Magisterium of the Old Testament. Jesus even mentions this in Matthew 23:2 and tells his disciples to "obey" those sitting in the Chair of Moses when they proclaim officially from that authority.

The bottom line is that any "literal" interpretation of Scripture comes to the obvious conclusion that Peter was the first Pope.
ANYONE who says otherwise is not interpreting Scripture literally and is asserting their own personal opinions and agenda into Scripture &#8211; something that Protestants consider a sin.


Here is an excellent video talking about the ECF, entitled
"10 things that marcus grobi never saw when he was a protestant"
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5001018275166568920
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Christ is the King, Mary is the Queen, the Church is the Bride of Christ and the Pope holds the position of Prime minister, Jesus himself gave saint Peter the Keys (authority) by saying:
I knew we couldn't go long before the mary was brought up.......:doh:
 
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