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don't you find it the least bit odd that a Man who is supposedly able to impart infallible truth, could end up believing something that is patently UNtrue?
nevermind if he ever taught it or not... that just seems really, really, really inconsistant.
secondly, the layity arbitrating doctrine, is also inconsistant with the "you can't interpret unless you've been given the infallible ability to do so."
on the one hand, we're told " you can't use your private judgement" and on the other, told that the ability exists... and you just call it sensus fidelium? (another slap in the face to every other Christian in the world that isn't Catholic, by the way. "the 'faithful' just know that we're right."
So please do not think it appropriate to start posting that Catholic teach the Pope is God on Earth or that the Pope is King of Kings or such. That is simply not true.
don't you find it the least bit odd that a Man who is supposedly able to impart infallible truth, could end up believing something that is patently UNtrue?
False. The last statement, and Judgement on the matter was made by James, not Peter.We see in Acts, chapter 15 how the apostles and the elders came together under the leadership of St. Peter to decide the question of what was required of Gentiles.
see my post above Jack...If the pope accepts the crown after what is said then the pope stands behind it...
thou art the father of princes and kings, the ruler of the world, the vicar on earth of Our Savior
Sounds pretty bizarre for being part of a kingdom that is not of this earth...This is a part of someone who is called the servant of servants..
And how on earth would you have ever come across his writings? I had never heard of him.
then let me rephrase the question. WHY don't you find it odd?Why ask questions you know the answer to unless you are implying something you know to be untrue but for which you choose to believe regardless.
that makes it almost completely useless.Meaning... the Pope is not an impecible man and it is only when in the Chair of Peter that what is taught is infallible and this is because the charism the Pope has allows no error from the man because of the intercession and power of God (you have been told this numerous times).
bully for you. I could care less if you can quotemine a few people who agree with you.
I have history and Protestant Scholars agreeing with me.
took his cue from, does not equal what you are saying. So Peter said something, it was agreed with, and James said "It is therefore my judgement....Eminent Protestant Bible scholars F.F. Bruce and James Dunn (neither has ever been accused of being an advocate of Catholicism, as far as I know -- Bruce calls himself a "Paulinist") give an account of Peter's role in the Jerusalem Council not inconsistent with mine:
According to Luke, a powerful plea by Peter was specially influential in the achieving of this resolution . . . James the Just, who summed up the sense of the meeting, took his cue from Peter's plea.
(F.F. Bruce, Peter, Stephen, James, and John, Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1979, 38)
which of course, speaks NOTHING about whether or not he regarded Peter as the master of the Church.Paul . . . made no attempt to throw his own weight around within the Jerusalem church (Acts 21; cf. 15.12f.)
this last bit doesn't make much sense.The compromise, however, is not so much between Peter and Paul . . . as between James and Paul, with Peter in effect the median figure to whom both are subtly conformed (James -- see acts 15.13ff. . . . ). Is this not justifiably to be designated 'early catholic'?
(James D.G. Dunn, Unity and Diversity in the New Testament, London: SCM Press, 2nd edition, 1990, 112, 356)
Don't worry Trento, History isn't true if it disagrees with what everyone would like to think.
but I know it' snot about impeccibility... however, if a Man can BELIEVE something untrue... how is it that he could not teach it?
the assertion is: the Pope and Magicsterium can't teach error. (apparently though, they can believe it.)
Well Mark I think your wrong, those arguing without listening may not care...But those listening without arguing surely desire the truth...
Jesus received all power from God. Do you deny Jesus is king of Earth?
Well Mark I think your wrong, those arguing without listening may not care...But those listening without arguing surely desire the truth...
.
Why do I get the feeling that there have been hundreds of threads on the pope, that they contains thousands of extremely similar posts with make the same arguments and counter-argumets over and over again...
.... and that nobody gives a rat's keyster about what the other side has to say.
Now, am right or what. ???
.
Your trying to equate Your pope with Jesus? ...I see QUITE a differance between the pomp and circumstance with the pope and the humility Christ walked in... All the origial apostles were give the authority of the keys..The church was ALWAYS conciliar..HIS kingdom is NOT of this earth..
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