Polygamous-sect children ordered to stay in Texas custody

[Crazy Liz]

SAN ANGELO, Texas (AP) — The more than 400 children taken from a ranch run by a polygamous sect will stay in state custody and be subject to genetic testing to sort out family relationships that have confounded welfare authorities, a judge ruled Friday.

What do you think about taking children away from their parents only because of the beliefs and practices of their religion?

 

[fieldy]

It's not just because of their beliefs. They need to know what's happening to the children.

The April 3 raid on the Yearning For Zion Ranch was prompted by a call made to a family violence shelter, purportedly by a 16-year-old girl who said her 50-year-old husband beat and raped her. That girl has never been identified.

 

[Crazy Liz]

One woman's complaint of abuse doesn't sound like anything close to probable cause to suspect 400 children are in danger of imminent harm.

 

[fieldy]

Well it doesn't seem right to leave hundreds of children somewhere if there's risk they'll be abused without first investigating.

 

[Crazy Liz]

So if someone called in an anonymous tip that a woman was being abused on your block, the state should take all the children in your neighborhood into custody, just to be on the safe side?

 

[fieldy]

That's not a good comparison at all.

 

[Crazy Liz]

It's not?

Why not?

What is the difference, except for religion?

 

[fieldy]

The difference being that people in the neighbourhood aren't all connected. If a child was being molested in one house then of course there would have to be an intervention in that house. There is the potential that a lot of people in that community would allow such abuse to go on because they think it's ok for underage girls to marry much older men. People in the neighbourhood aren't fed with guilt for refusing to marry someone. It sounds like a cult and individuality is lost in cults.

 

[diekatzen]

The state of Texas argued it should be allowed to keep the children because the sect's teaching encourages girls younger than 18 to enter spiritual marriages with older men and produce as many children as possible. Its attorneys argued that the culture put all the girls at risk and potentially turned the boys into future predators.

A witness for the parents who was presented by defense lawyers as an expert on the FLDS disputed that the girls have no say in who they marry.

"I believe the girls are given a real choice," said W. John Walsh. "Girls have successfully said, 'No, this is not a good match for me,' and they remained in good standing."

But Dr. Bruce Perry, a psychiatrist who has studied children in cults, testified that the girls will not refuse marriages because they are indoctrinated to believe disobedience will lead to their damnation.

The renegade Mormon sect's belief system "is abusive. The culture is very authoritarian," he said.

But the women also acknowledged that girls get married at ages younger than the state allows.

It sounds like there is a lot more going on than just one complaint of abuse.

 

[Caitlin.ann]

The state authorities didn't just raid the compound for fun or because of the religious beliefs of the mormon sect. It had everything to do with protecting the children from alleged abuse. Its only right that the children remain in state custody until everything is figured out.

 

[Crazy Liz]

Are you familiar with the kind of harm that can happen to children in state custody because their parents are suspected of abuse?

 

[Caitlin.ann]

I am aware of the harm that can happen to children who are forced into marriages when they're underage and I'm also aware of the harm rape causes and being forced to bear children at a young age. I'd say state custody is currently better for them than that.

 

[Crazy Liz]

I am aware of the harm that can happen to children who are forced into marriages when they're underage and I'm also aware of the harm rape causes and being forced to bear children at a young age. I'd say state custody is currently better for them than that.

What makes it so urgent?

 

[Caitlin.ann]

The fact that kids have allegedly been undergoing abuse. So logically the first thing to do is to remove the child from the danger as soon as possible. Also Yearning for Zion is connected with Warren Jeffs who has caused similar problems before.

 

[fieldy]

Ok maybe you're right and no one is being raped and this is an injustice and the kids and parents are victims. You could also be wrong though.
Whether or not anything illegal is happening I just feel it's sad that people have to grow up in such a repressive environment. No wonder people say religion is just a way to make hell on earth.

 

[ACougar]

Imminent harm, is teaching children that it's ok to marry and have children at 16, 15, 14... who knows how young... not a form of abuse? Now they can test the DNA, figure out if that 3 year old is the child of a 15 year old girl and a 50 year old man. They can then hopefully lock the 50 year old up for the rest of his natural life. That's justice.

One woman's complaint of abuse doesn't sound like anything close to probable cause to suspect 400 children are in danger of imminent harm.

 

[Crazy Liz]

Compare it with the kids growing up in state custody. Kids who grow up in foster homes are likely to end up in prison, psychiatric hospitals or homeless shelters. That's why normally that's only done when there is real danger.

 

[diekatzen]

Compare it with the kids growing up in state custody. Kids who grow up in foster homes are likely to end up in prison, psychiatric hospitals or homeless shelters. That's why normally that's only done when there is real danger.

And it is quite possible that these children are in real danger. Someone has complained of rape. Others, including adults loyal to the sect (cult, what have you) have stated that underage girls are encouraged or forced to marry adults. Children are being kept isolated and fed the myth that they will be endangered if they communicate with the outside world, which is a well known tactic abusers of all sorts use to keep their crimes from being discovered. I think it is far better to place a child in foster care temporarily than to leave them in the care of possible abusers when allegations like this come up. The psychiatrist's bill is going to be quite hefty anyway if (hopefully when) these children are deprogrammed and helped to escape a cult where they are married off as minors.

 

[Nienor]

Considering the fact that girls that are 12 and younger are entering "spiritual marriages" with men much older than them and multiple occurrences of incest, I have no problem with this. I grew up in Utah, and I've heard too many horror stories about the FLDS church...

 

[TexasSky]

SAN ANGELO, Texas (AP) — The more than 400 children taken from a ranch run by a polygamous sect will stay in state custody and be subject to genetic testing to sort out family relationships that have confounded welfare authorities, a judge ruled Friday.

What do you think about taking children away from their parents only because of the beliefs and practices of their religion?

It is because the children are being raped.