nobdysfool
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'He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
Scripture says God chose us in Him before the world began. God's choosing definitely comes first. Whether you like it being a cause or not, temporally it's first.
This may of been said already, but when one is saved he gets his name recorded in the book of life right?
I mean can one get his name in the book of life without being saved?
This suggests that one can be saved, but gets his name erased, so OSAS cant be true.
And you know that God doesn't make arbitrary choices, how? What constitutes an arbitrary choice, to you?What you fail to realize is that God doesn't make arbitrary choices. He always bases His choice upon something. If you believe He chose you, what reason might He have had?
Some people promote a very attractive idea: All true Christians, regardless of how they live, have an absolute assurance of salvation, once they accept Jesus into their hearts as "their personal Lord and Savior." The problem is that this belief is contrary to the Bible & constant Christian teaching.As a follow up to the thread which initially asked the question, This is in poll form. But please feel free to presend whatever scriptural evidence you think supports your position.
but the Bible does NOT teach that Christians have a guarantee of heaven. There can be no absolute assurance of salvation. "
Oh, you'll have eternal life alright. But where you spend it, that is the great question.Yet how can we know we have eternal life in 1 jn 5:11-13 if it is not guarenteed...
Oh, you'll have eternal life alright. But where you spend it, that is the great question.
Remember: Adam and Eve were created sinless, and were in a state of grace. But through their sin they fell from grace. That is what mortal sin does.
Look at Heb3:18-10 --- the Israelites failed to enter the Promised Land, because of disobedience and unbelief.ABIC said:Were the Jews that cross the red sea believers .... or are they the ones who worshipped idols ..... what does God say? let go to the chapter of faith Heb 11:27-29... they just did not get to recieve their reward due to unfaithfulness in their daily life thus God waited for physical death not spiritual ... which would be consistent of 1 cor 3:12-15
Gal5:21 says "those who practice (impurity, immorality, drunkenness, carousing, etcetera), SHALL NOT inherit the kingdom of God." Is there any way to change that into "oh-they-WILL-inherit"?love is a fruit from the spirit ... Gal 5:22-26 if not walking in the spirit they are focusing their minds on things of the earth thus becoming carnal ... thus gal 5:26 vain glory, provoking and envying other believers
Because it is possible --- please read Rom8:13 --- if we DO "walk in the flesh", we "MUST DIE".why are saints told this it is possible for them to walk in the flesh
No, they are those who PRACTICE unclean actions. Immorality, impurity, drunkenness, carousing, outbursts --- it fits exactly with what we just read in Gal5:19-21.eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
unclean person is one that has not been cover by the blood of Christ ... by the washing of the Holy Spirit
David was to die --- but because of repentance, he did not. Please read Psalm51 --- here is an eloquent and thorough confession, repentance, and begging God for forgiveness.King David did several of these things but before He did God promised He would be the King during the 1000 yr reign ... Thus showing that GOD in his all knowingness knew that he would murder and covet his neighbor's wife then committing adultery thus making him unclean .... That God would cover his sins already... Romans 4:5-8
Exactly that --- and what does 1Jn3 say about satan's camp? "They PRACTICE unrighteousness".eph 5:6 Let no man decieve you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the son's of disobedience.
Two camps ... 1 jn 3:10 children of God and the children of satan
"Disobedience", is "unbelief". Inseparable.disobedience is the belief that Jesus died for their sins, was buried three days and arose from the dead in a new body as (?) God ... adding to this or subtracting to this gospel they are children of disobedience
Are "tares", saved?possible for wheat and tares to intermingle ... matt 13:25,38
No, my friend --- we are NOT to be good --- we are to cling to Him, throwing ourselves down at His feet, broken and humbled; imploring Him to indwell us, and to be our "goodness", in and through us.we are to be good by giving the hope in us... but this does not always happen
I'm afraid not --- please review 2Pet1:5-10. The list of godly qualities is not optional; he says "he who LACKS these qualities, is blind/shortsighted, FORGOTTEN former purification from sins. THEREFORE be all the more diligent in your calling and election; for as long as you HAVE these qualities, you are useful (and will not "ptaio-stumble-become-wretched"); in THIS way the gates of Heaven will BE (abundantly) provided to you."eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
this is about consistanty.. in your walk other wise they would not need to be reminded .... this is about God's desireous will not determintive will
And --- they could not DO that, as "saved-believers".their problem is they they were loving the world and fellowshipping with them..... in stead of fellowshipping with other believers
Awake from the sleeping (join salvation), arise from the dead (believe and be saved).eph 5:14 Wherefore He saith Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ will shine thru you.
telling the believers who were sinning to remind themselves who they are in Christ ... paid for by the blood 1 cor 6:19-20 once and for all heb 10:14-18
Some day I will convince you (by Scripture), that there is no such thing as "one who BELIEVES, but WALKS in darkness/sin". (1Jn1:6-7)Christ is already sealed this sinner who believed ...eph 1:13, rev 3:5, eph 4:30
You quote verses that you perceive express "exceptions" to the dictate of "the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God" --- but you have yet to explain how such an exception, would work. When Gal5:19-21 says "those who do these things will NOT inherit the kingdom of God", how can that be changed into, "They really WILL inherit"?count what is true romans 6:11-13 so that God can be shown forth out of the dirt of man God character can be shown forth
Will you consider that "ARE RIGHT NOW", and "washed", are incompatible?1 cor 6:11 and such were some of you [ARE RIGHT NOW]. but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, But ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our Lord.
The context asserts "Abraham believed, AND it was reckoned to him as righteousness." [/quote]Those who believe and receive Jesus, do not walk in unrighteousness. Those who walk in sin, do not know Jesus or God.This connects to romans 4:5
Oh, you'll have eternal life alright. But where you spend it, that is the great question.
Remember: Adam and Eve were created sinless, and were in a state of grace. But through their sin they fell from grace. That is what mortal sin does.
another example where your imagination has twisted scripture ... In Heb 11 God listed acts of faith .. notice heb 11:25-29Look at Heb3:18-10 --- the Israelites failed to enter the Promised Land, because of disobedience and unbelief.
Yet they were told to enter boldly upon the throne of grace Heb 4:16 .... unbeliever cannot do this...Then, we're warned to "be diligent to enter God's rest, lest anyone FALL by imitating their (the Israelites') example of disobedience" --- Heb4:11. Is there any way to make "fall", and "not-enter", into "still saved"? No.
gal 5:13 For brethren, ye have been called to liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.Gal5:21 says "those who practice (impurity, immorality, drunkenness, carousing, etcetera), SHALL NOT inherit the kingdom of God." Is there any way to change that into "oh-they-WILL-inherit"?
everyone dies unless the rapture happens .... God does promise a believer He will take them home by Death into life if they try to practice sin... God just cuts them off the path ... 1cor 11:30-32, Heb 12:6, 2 cor 5:8No.
Because it is possible --- please read Rom8:13 --- if we DO "walk in the flesh", we "MUST DIE".
I agree that they are not using their eternal life that is IN them ... why do they sin ... OSN lives in them till He comes back ... 1jn 3:2-3Is there any way to make "die", into "really living in salvation"? No.
practice sin .. repent still savedNo, they are those who PRACTICE unclean actions. Immorality, impurity, drunkenness, carousing, outbursts --- it fits exactly with what we just read in Gal5:19-21.
David was to die --- but because of repentance, he did not. Please read Psalm51 --- here is an eloquent and thorough confession, repentance, and begging God for forgiveness.
Exactly that --- and what does 1Jn3 say about satan's camp? "They PRACTICE unrighteousness".
And GOD'S camp practices righteousness.
"Disobedience", is "unbelief". Inseparable.
Are "tares", saved?
(No.)
No, my friend --- we are NOT to be good --- we are to cling to Him, throwing ourselves down at His feet, broken and humbled; imploring Him to indwell us, and to be our "goodness", in and through us.
I'm afraid not --- please review 2Pet1:5-10. The list of godly qualities is not optional; he says "he who LACKS these qualities, is blind/shortsighted, FORGOTTEN former purification from sins. THEREFORE be all the more diligent in your calling and election; for as long as you HAVE these qualities, you are useful (and will not "ptaio-stumble-become-wretched"); in THIS way the gates of Heaven will BE (abundantly) provided to you."
It's not "abundantly-provided, or sparsely-provided", it's "abundant, or not at all."
And --- they could not DO that, as "saved-believers".
No one who walks in darkness and fellowships with the world, is Heaven-bound. Scripture says, "Do you not know that friendship with the world, is enmity against God?"
romans 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we first believed.Awake from the sleeping (join salvation), arise from the dead (believe and be saved).
Some day I will convince you (by Scripture), that there is no such thing as "one who BELIEVES, but WALKS in darkness/sin". (1Jn1:6-7)
Yet scripture again states differentlyYou quote verses that you perceive express "exceptions" to the dictate of "the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God" --- but you have yet to explain how such an exception, would work. When Gal5:19-21 says "those who do these things will NOT inherit the kingdom of God", how can that be changed into, "They really WILL inherit"?
Will you consider that "ARE RIGHT NOW", and "washed", are incompatible?
Those who believe and receive Jesus, do not walk in unrighteousness. Those who walk in sin, do not know Jesus or God.The context asserts "Abraham believed, AND it was reckoned to him as righteousness."
There are at least a dozen ways to respond to this; but my best response, is to pray that I have never responded with hatefulness nor hostility to you.NBF said:ABIC, you know how to tell when Ben is refuted? He stops responding.
Heb3:18-20, says what it says; how do you remove what was written?ABIC said:another example where your imagination has twisted scripture ... In Heb 11 God listed acts of faith .. notice heb 11:25-29
Those in Heb11:39, "gained approval through their faith". Those in Heb3:18-20 failed to enter the Promised land, because of faithlessness and disobedience. Do you really think the two passages are talking about the same people?exactly what you preach ... you condemn them... wow
Yet God talks them up! Heb 11:39 a good report!
You've never explained to me --- how if "salvation is by grace through faith", how then can someone be "faithlessly saved"?Yet they were told to enter boldly upon the throne of grace Heb 4:16 .... unbeliever cannot do this...
Gal5:21 says "They that do these things, shall not inherit the kingdom of God."Believer can use the flesh .... but once again shown to focus on What God says about us in Christ so that We can recieve the power of the Holy Spirit ... Gal 5:16 if not Gal 5:17 "So that you cannot do the things that you would"
Please explain how "living in the flesh", is compatible with "dead to sin and alive in Christ"?if living in the flesh we cannot love other believers ... We need God power from the grace throne... romans 6:11-13, col 3:1-4, 2 tim 2:1, phil 4:7... gal 5:22-23
Rom8:12-13 is clearly speaking of "die, spiritually". The two opposing positions, are:everyone dies unless the rapture happens .... God does promise a believer He will take them home by Death into life if they try to practice sin... God just cuts them off the path ... 1cor 11:30-32, Heb 12:6, 2 cor 5:8
Do you accept that "practice-sin", is opposite to "repent"?practice sin .. repent still saved
And He is also JUST. He would be unjust to reward with eternal life, those who practice sin.God is a good, gracious and merciful God
That's the point, "A_Believer". We either walk in sin (and be unsaved), OR walk in His righteousness, in Him (saved).And --- they could not DO that, as "saved-believers".
If they believe, they are no longer ungodly.But God grace allow ungodly to believe .... romans 4:5 ....
"Sleeping", means "willfully sinning". You admit that; but you do not accept that cannot be "saved".sleeping mean they were not using the Eternal Life but sinning thus still saved
"WERE", my friend; past tense.Yet scripture again states differently
1 cor 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Not if they fail to "flee fornication"...already saved... sin problem fornication ... yet still redeemed
If "unbelief is saved", then how can anyone perish?Yet soon as God said the Abraham was Justified by believing ... He doubted God... gen 15:8
unbelief ... Yet still saved
He's 100% right; the guarantee, is based on our continuing in faith. Stated clearly in Col1:21-23, and many other places.ABIC said:Yet how can we know we have eternal life in 1 jn 5:11-13 if it is not guarenteed
why does the spirit guarantee a sealing in eph 1:13, 4:30
we as Christian are guarenteed ... if you do not believe in vain... 1 cor 15:2,10,17 three different vains beware
This is an excellent, and eloquently stated post; fully Scriptural (with citations!).CatholicChristian said:Some people promote a very attractive idea: All true Christians, regardless of how they live, have an absolute assurance of salvation, once they accept Jesus into their hearts as "their personal Lord and Savior." The problem is that this belief is contrary to the Bible & constant Christian teaching.
Recall this Scripture: "If we have died with him [in baptism; see Rom. 6:3-4] we shall also live with him; if we persevere we shall also reign with him" (2 Tim. 2:11-12). So, ff we do NOT persevere, we shall NOT reign with him. In other words, Christians can forfeit heaven. Jesus tells us, "He who endures to the end will be saved" (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31-46). Ergo, if you do not endure to the end, well........
The Bible makes it clear that Christians have a moral assurance of salvation (God will be true to his word and will grant salvation to those who have faith in Christ and are obedient to him [1 John 3:19-24]), but the Bible does NOT teach that Christians have a guarantee of heaven. There can be no absolute assurance of salvation. The Bible says, "See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you remain in his kindness, otherwise you too will be cut off" (Rom. 11:22-23; Matt. 18:21-35, 1 Cor. 15:1-2, 2 Pet. 2:20-21).
Note that this includes an important condition: "provided you remain in his kindness." It is saying that Christians can lose their salvation by throwing it away. He warns, "Whoever thinks he is standing secure should take care not to fall" (1 Cor. 10:11-12). , Paul admitted that even he could fall away: "I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified" (1 Cor. 9:27). In saying this he points out that even he cannot be infallibly sure of his own present state or of his future salvation.
As a Catholic, when someone asks me if I have been "saved," I answer: "I am redeemed by the blood of Christ, I trust in him alone for my salvation, and, as the Bible teaches, I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), knowing that it is God's gift of grace that is working in me."
Come on, Big O: Did I say that?You mean there is no forgiveness?
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