Poll: Is God capable of using biological evolution to create a diversity of species?

[d taylor]

Why not? It works so well that engineers are now using random variation and selection algorithms which mimic evolution to create novel designs and components.

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.

 

[Speedwell]

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.

Yet you claim to know quite a bit about God and his thoughts and ways.

 

[d taylor]

If God already knows the outcome then it's not by chance or randomness is it?

I feel like there isn't really a way out here that won't end up in a contradiction.

Well the whys can be continued.

But if God is the subject, the only source for information about God is the Bible. So if it is not in the Bible then it becomes just another guess.
So there is no indication from the Bible that God would use or did use chance or randomness to create.

As Jesus/God states from the beginning God made them male and female.

 

[d taylor]

Yet you claim to know quite a bit about God and his thoughts and ways.

I know what is given in the Bible.

 

[Ophiolite]

But if God is the subject, the only source for information about God is the Bible.

Why do you reject the character of Creation as an insight into the character of God?

 

[pitabread]

So there is no indication from the Bible that God would use or did use chance or randomness to create.

But you said, if God is all knowing and already aware of the outcome then it can't be considered chance.

 

[Strathos]

But you said, if God is all knowing and already aware of the outcome then it can't be considered chance.

In fact the part about God's thoughts and ways not being ours could lend credence to the idea that what seems unpredictable to us is perfectly predictable to Him. So he basically shot down his own objection with that one.

 

[d taylor]

Why do you reject the character of Creation as an insight into the character of God?

Because the Bible teaches one to understand Gods creation. I first go to the Bible then to the creation. Example God stated He created two great lights (sun, moon). So when i see these two created lights and i here a scientist saying , no the moon is not a light, it reflects the suns light.

I know that is not true. Why do i know that is not true because God stated He created two great lights.

 

[d taylor]

But you said, if God is all knowing and already aware of the outcome then it can't be considered chance.

ok

 

[dlamberth]

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.

God has blessed us with the Scientist to help us understand the universe and a window into the how life is being created through evolution and a changing planet. The scientist are only reporting what they find in Creation itSelf.

 

[Ophiolite]

Because the Bible teaches one to understand Gods creation. I first go to the Bible then to the creation. Example God stated He created two great lights (sun, moon). So when i see these two created lights and i here a scientist saying , no the moon is not a light, it reflects the suns light.

I know that is not true. Why do i know that is not true because God stated He created two great lights.

Thank you for your reply. I am so sorry you are missing out on the wonder of the universe by opting for a literal interpretation of Scripture.

 

[Halbhh]

I decided to put this question to a proper poll.

For clarification, this isn't about what you believe God did or did not do. Rather this is about what you believe God is capable of doing or not doing.

IOW, if you think that God didn't use evolution to create a diversity of species on Earth, yet is otherwise capable of doing so if they chose to, then you would answer YES in the poll. On the other hand, if you think that God is not capable of using evolution, then you would vote NO.

Also, for the purpose of the poll a creationist is one that rejects biological evolution and the shared ancestry of species (e.g. believes that God created independent organisms). Whereas an evolutionist is one who accepts biological evolution and the shared ancestry of species.

This question is somewhat like asking about 'dark matter', where we know some effects/outcomes, but don't yet understand all about the underlying mechanism (physics).

Of course, God existing, is (by definition practically) the creator of this universe.

The 'universe', all that exists here, is also simply the outcome of physics:
Universe = outcome of Physics in action

Ergo, by definition, God created all the laws of nature, and thus anything that happens is then by His design, the outcome of His creation.

So, as you can see, there's only a distinction without a difference, so to speak, between 'evolution' as meaning just what happened physically, and then 'creation' meaning what happened physically. One is down to merely arguing hypotheses.

But, my guess, it being a guess, is that God not only made life to unfold and evolve naturally, but He additionally intervened at times. So, on that, I'd answer 'both', but with the note that it is a guess. In my view, everyone is guessing when they try to guess about whether, how and where God intervened. But, for instance, one of my speculations is that God screened asteroids and chose the particular asteroid that hit 66 million years ago to make most dinosaurs into compost and clear niches for the rise of the mammals.

 

[d taylor]

Thank you for your reply. I am so sorry you are missing out on the wonder of the universe by opting for a literal interpretation of Scripture.

Even if what you said was true, i still would not be missing out. My world is a primed hardboard or a piece of paper, waiting to be fill with a painting or drawing.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

That's true. In the Bible, God also uses human beings many times to accomplish His goals. Human beings are more unpredictable than evolution, but things still always work out how God intends them.

"Hmm... yeah, that's exactly what I wanted - a world gone so bad I have to destroy it... Noah? got your umbrella?"

 

[Halbhh]

"Hmm... yeah, that's exactly what I wanted - a world gone so bad I have to destroy it... Noah? got your umbrella?"

'Evil' or 'good' are both entailed as soon as there is agency, freedom of action. Evil being simply that which is intended to and does harm others and good being doing beneficial actions towards others. Or in a useful statement form "in everything, do to others as you would have them do to you" is 'good' action, and evil the actions meant to break this rule typically.

So, evil is really an inevitable and guaranteed to happen outcome of freedom given time and enough individual agents (people able to choose their actions). The thing is though, evil can at times become ingrained in a culture and gain momentum and becoming overwhelming, and then something drastic has to happen to change that it seems, like war or famine or such, perhaps a giant flood, earthquake or other big event that derails/alters the psychology and the cultural momentum.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

'Evil' or 'good' are both entailed as soon as there is agency, freedom of action. Evil being simply that which is intended to and does harm others and good being doing beneficial actions towards others. Or in a useful statement form "in everything, do to others as you would have them do to you" is 'good' action, and evil the actions meant to break this rule typically.

So, evil is really an inevitable and guaranteed to happen outcome of freedom given time and enough individual agents (people able to choose their actions). The thing is though, evil can at times become ingrained in a culture and gain momentum and becoming overwhelming, and then something drastic has to happen to change that it seems, like war or famine or such, perhaps a giant flood, earthquake or other big event that derails/alters the psychology and the cultural momentum.

Sure, I know the spiel - it just seems odd that God would have intended the world to go to pot so it would have to be destroyed... "Human beings are more unpredictable than evolution, but things still always work out how God intends them."

I suppose it depends what timescale you measure on, and whether 'things working out how God intends them' includes God making them work out by destroying what he doesn't approve of (and most other living things) until he gets what he was after.

 

[Halbhh]

Sure, I know the spiel - it just seems odd that God would have intended the world to go to pot so it would have to be destroyed... "Human beings are more unpredictable than evolution, but things still always work out how God intends them."

I suppose it depends what timescale you measure on, and whether 'things working out how God intends them' includes God making them work out by destroying what he doesn't approve of (and most other living things) until he gets what he was after.

Since the most straightforward way all the commandments in scripture make any sense is if we are actually able to make choices, aka "free will", then it must be we are not predetermined. Our choices not already fixed ahead of time. Ergo, unpredictable in an absolute sense.

 

[NerdGirl]

True. But not capable of lying

That should go without saying, but... yes, of course. Just as He says "Nothing is impossible with God", He's obviously not including going against His own self in that statement.

 

[Gottservant]

IOW, if you think that God didn't use evolution to create a diversity of species on Earth, yet is otherwise capable of doing so if they chose to, then you would answer YES in the poll. On the other hand, if you think that God is not capable of using evolution, then you would vote NO.

I think the answer to this question is: yes, God can use Evolution, as long as the specific adaptation does not exceed the ability of the creature to incorporate it, as they were.

In other words, you can be better at climbing trees, as a monkey, as long as you are not so heavy that the branches you climb "break".

So God can improve the monkey's climb, but not if the monkey also puts on weight like a gorilla.

This is different from the idea that a monkey can start to walk like a man because the spine of a monkey won't allow it, whereas man started with a curve and walked at the same time. Coincident adaptations are a phenomenon all of their own.

 

[essentialsaltes]

There is not any indication from the Bible that working by chance or randomness is a way God creates.

It is just simply not how a perfect God works. As God stated even before the foundation of His creation He knew what was going to happen.

Proverbs 16:33

The lot is cast into the lap,
but its every decision is from the Lord.