POLL: Did the ancient Hebrews believe that the earth was flat?

[yeshuasavedme]

There is nothing in Mat 22:29 where Jesus says the book of Enoch is Scripture…. The book of Enoch was never in the Greek Septuagint….

Jesus told the Sadducees they erred, NOT KNOWING SCRIPTURE, and the Scripture Jesus referred to is in the Book of Enoch, when Enoch was given the words from God the Great Glory, in heaven, to reprimand and show the eternal damnation of the fallen watchers, who asked Enoch to intercede with God for them; for they were then sorry that they had cursed themselves to never enter their first abode again, in heaven, when they descended to Mount Zion of the north at the border of what came to be the Holy Land (for God the Creator always claimed that belly button of the dry earth’s creation, out of the primal waters, as His own); and from the time of their descent Mount Zion of the north is called Mount Hermon, which means the curse or oath.

Jesus told them what the Scripture they erred, not knowing, states. Jesus states what the Scripture written by Enoch the prophet, the 7th from Adam wrote, that in heaven, the resurrected saints do not marry and are equal with the angels in heaven who do not marry nor give in marriage.
It does not carry water that you reject the Book of Enoch. It is where the foundations for ALL Bible TRUTHS are laid, once.
The sun’s circuit around earth and the exact paths it takes in the yearly cycle (as seen from the beginning point of sun’s circle at it’s being made on day 4 of creation week, to govern the light brought forth on day 1, by day, and the moon by night, which gets it’s light from the sun, is written by Enoch the prophet, the 7th from Adam, who was shown it all by the angel Uriel, and Enoch wrote the exact formula of their paths in their yearly circuit around earth, and also was shown the paths of the stars (constellations), and their bringing in of the 4 seasons in their paths/circuits, around the totally fixed in place globe/world.
World, in Hebrew is English "globe"

 

[Ragdoll]

Jesus told the Sadducees they erred, NOT KNOWING SCRIPTURE, and the Scripture Jesus referred to is in the Book of Enoch, when Enoch was given the words from God the Great Glory, in heaven, to reprimand and show the eternal damnation of the fallen watchers, who asked Enoch to intercede with God for them; for they were then sorry that they had cursed themselves to never enter their first abode again, in heaven, when they descended to Mount Zion of the north at the border of what came to be the Holy Land (for God the Creator always claimed that belly button of the dry earth’s creation, out of the primal waters, as His own); and from the time of their descent Mount Zion of the north is called Mount Hermon, which means the curse or oath.

Jesus told them what the Scripture they erred, not knowing, states; that in heaven, the resurrected saints do not marry, and are equal with the angels in heaven who do not marry nor give in marriage.
It does not carry water that you reject the Book of Enoch. It is where the foundations for ALL Bible TRUTHS is laid, once.
The sun’s circuit around earth and the exact paths it takes in the yearly cycle (as seen from the beginning point of sun’s circle at it’s being made on day 4 of creation week, to govern the light brought forth on day 1, by day, and the moon by night, which gets it’s light from the sun: Enoch wrote the exact formula of their paths in their yearly circuit around earth, and also was shown the paths of the stars (constellations), and their bringing in of the 4 seasons in their paths/circuits.

I'm not going to carry on this conversation because you are unwilling to learn essential theology. Job 38:12, 14 is heliocentrsim. That passage cannot be interpreted as geocentrism because it geocentrism the earth is stationary and doesn't move. The Job passage is correctly understood as a rotating earth which faces the sun (the dayspring). As the earth turns, light moves over the earth. That's cut in stone.

The book of Enoch was not ever, at any time, in the Septuagint. There is no evidence Enoch was ever considered Scripture. It doesn't even make it to the Apocrypha. Enoch is pseudepigrapha.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I'm not going to carry on this conversation because you are unwilling to learn essential theology. Job 38:12, 14 is heliocentrsim. That passage cannot be interpreted as geocentrism because it geocentrism the earth is stationary and doesn't move. The Job passage is correctly understood as a rotating earth which faces the sun (the dayspring). As the earth turns, light moves over the earth. That's cut in stone.

The book of Enoch was not ever, at any time, in the Septuagint. There is no evidence Enoch was ever considered Scripture. It doesn't even make it to the Apocrypha. Enoch is pseudepigrapha.

Jesus said Enoch wrote Scripture.
You err, not knowing Scripture which Jesus told the Sadducees they did not know.
If they had known the Scripture that Jesus knew, then they would never have tried to test Jesus about marriage in heaven.
It is plainly written in Enoch. Jesus said it is Scripture.
You can deny the truth, but you can't make it go away, nor can you make it a lie on your own opinion.

 

[Ragdoll]

Jesus said Enoch wrote Scripture.
You err, not knowing Scripture which Jesus told the Sadducees they did not know.
If they had known the Scripture that Jesus knew, then they would never have tried to test Jesus about marriage in heaven.
It is plainly written in Enoch. Jesus said it is Scripture.
You can deny the truth, but you can't make it go away, nor can you make it a lie on your own opinion.

Book, chapter and verse. I cannot think of a single verse in the Bible where Jesus says the book of Enoch is Scripture. Also, what is quoted in Jude is from chapter 1 of Enoch. What is quoted there is also found in the Bible, though worded differently.

This is my last comment on this topic. The book of Enoch was never removed from the Bible. It was never in the Bible to begin with. Enoch is not found in the Greek Septuagint which is the oldest manuscripts we have besides the Dead Sea Scrolls. Now Enoch was found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, but it was not Canonized. Parts of what we have of Enoch today are obviously Gnostic. Whatever Enoch may have been at one time it isn't what it is today. The book of Enoch has quite obviously been corrupted from what it originally may have been. The book of Enoch was not written by Enoch either. The real Enoch had been dead thousands of years before the book of Enoch came along.

So why would you want a corrupt book in the Bible? Why are so many people obsessed with this corrupt book? Is the real Bible not good enough for you? If you want to know what Books belong in the Bible then look at the Books listed in the Septuagint. What isn't there isn't Canon.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

....I cannot think ....

Bible means collection of books.
Scripture means writing.
canon means man made rule.

Ethiopian Bible is the oldest and complete bible on earth
https://ocl.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Ethiopian-Bible.jpgWritten in Ge’ez an ancient dead language of Ethiopia it’s nearly 800 years older than the King James Version and contains 81-88 books compared to 66. It includes the Book of ENOCH, Esdras, Buruch and all 3 Books of MACCABEE, and a host of others that was excommunicated from the KJV.

Source: Ancient-Origine
World’s first illustrated Christian bible discovered at Ethiopian monastery

The world’s earliest illustrated Christian book has been saved by a British charity which located it at a remote Ethiopian monastery.

 

[Arctangent]

Josephus wrote from the time just after the destruction of the temple, and he said something to the effect of "it was an abomination to read other than Hebrew Torah in the Hebrew synagogues".
Jesus spoke Hebrew in Jerusalem and all Israel, as Israel did.
That is fact.
Jesus spoke Hebrew to Paul on the Damascus road. Paul spoke Hebrew.
Pilate had Jesus' "crime" (according to the Hebrews) written over Jesus hanging on the cross, in 3 languages: HEBREW, Latin, and
greek, it read: "Jesus of Nazereth, King of the Jews.
The first letters of it in Hebrew spell YHVH!
that really made the priests mad!
THE INSCRIPTION AT THE CROSS

If Josephus wrote after the destruction of the Temple, then he would certainly be reflecting the post-Apostolic Jewish view that had come to evolve among the Jews. But that doesn't reflect the reality that had been going on in the Synagogues for a couple centuries prior.

None of them spoke Hebrew. The only ones who did learned it academically, as it was only a liturgical language and otherwise dead. Even the Jews who returned from Babylon half a millennium prior didn't speak Hebrew and needed the Scriptures to be translated and interpreted for them.

They spoke Aramaic. While it is related to Hebrew, it is nonetheless distinct from Hebrew, and they are not mutually intelligible.

The fact that they didn't speak Hebrew, but Aramaic, is why the Aramaic targums came to exist. When Hebrew was read in the Synagogue, the rabbi would give a translation/paraphrase as well as some commentary. Each translation/paraphrase into Aramaic with accompanying commentary is a targum. In fact, when Jesus said "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me," He was quoting the Aramaic targum for that Psalm, not the Hebrew.

 

[Ragdoll]

Bible means collection of books.
Scripture means writing.
canon means man made rule.

Ethiopian Bible is the oldest and complete bible on earth
https://ocl.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Ethiopian-Bible.jpgWritten in Ge’ez an ancient dead language of Ethiopia it’s nearly 800 years older than the King James Version and contains 81-88 books compared to 66. It includes the Book of ENOCH, Esdras, Buruch and all 3 Books of MACCABEE, and a host of others that was excommunicated from the KJV.

Source: Ancient-Origine
World’s first illustrated Christian bible discovered at Ethiopian monastery

The world’s earliest illustrated Christian book has been saved by a British charity which located it at a remote Ethiopian monastery.

The Septuagint is older. It was translated in 260 B.C.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

The Septuagint is older. It was translated in 260 B.C.

you failed to read about the oldest complete known Christian Bible in the world, so your comment is not relevant to what I posted.
The Ethiopian orthodox Bible is the oldest complete Bible known, in the Christian world, and it includes the Book of Enoch, among others.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

If Josephus wrote after the destruction of the Temple, then he would certainly be reflecting the post-Apostolic Jewish view that had come to evolve among the Jews. But that doesn't reflect the reality that had been going on in the Synagogues for a couple centuries prior.

None of them spoke Hebrew. The only ones who did learned it academically, as it was only a liturgical language and otherwise dead. Even the Jews who returned from Babylon half a millennium prior didn't speak Hebrew and needed the Scriptures to be translated and interpreted for them.

They spoke Aramaic. While it is related to Hebrew, it is nonetheless distinct from Hebrew, and they are not mutually intelligible.

The fact that they didn't speak Hebrew, but Aramaic, is why the Aramaic targums came to exist. When Hebrew was read in the Synagogue, the rabbi would give a translation/paraphrase as well as some commentary. Each translation/paraphrase into Aramaic with accompanying commentary is a targum. In fact, when Jesus said "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me," He was quoting the Aramaic targum for that Psalm, not the Hebrew.

The Hebrew people living in Israel in Jesus' day spoke Hebrew. Torah was written in Hebrew.
Pilate had Jesus' "crime" written in 3 tongues and hung on the cross: Hebrew, Latin, and greek.
The first letters of his "crime" written in Hebrew spelled "YHVH".

Jesus spoke Hebrew to Saul on the road to Damascus.

 

[Arctangent]

The Hebrew people living in Israel in Jesus' day spoke Hebrew. Torah was written in Hebrew.
Pilate had Jesus' "crime" written in 3 tongues and hung on the cross: Hebrew, Latin, and greek.
The first letters of his "crime" written in Hebrew spelled "YHVH".

Jesus spoke Hebrew to Saul on the road to Damascus.

You are one of the only people in the world who imagines that they still spoke Hebrew at that time. Maybe even the only one.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

You are one of the only people in the world who imagines that they still spoke Hebrew at that time. Maybe even the only one.

You are not informed and Jesus spoke Hebrew. Paul spoke Hebrew to the Hebrew people in Jerusalem. Torah was read in the Hebrew synagogues in Israel, in Hebrew.
Just Bible, and True history, show the truth.
Pilate had Jesus' "crime" written in HEBREW... Latin and Greek.
Tetragram of the Hebrew "crime" Jesus was crucified for spelled "YHVH", and FYI, I'm "Scripture" informed, along with an uncountable host of others over the 2 millennia since the crucifixion of Messiah, on this subject, and your claim to "concensus of opinion" does NOT make a lie to be truth by any means. To make a claim like "you are the only one who believes...." in total opposition to the uncountable historical reports over the millennia and in total opposition to the TRUTH of Scripture, on this matter, is just showing your own willful blindness.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Did Jesus Speak Hebrew? - Disputing Aramaic Priority

 

[Job 33:6]

The answer to the poll question is now definitely "Yes".

 

[coffee4u]

I would have voted other.

The Hebrews believed the earth was what they could see from horizon to horizon. They didn't believe in or not believe in a Flat Earth or a Globe Earth.

 

[timewerx]

I would have voted other.

The Hebrews believed the earth was what they could see from horizon to horizon. They didn't believe in or not believe in a Flat Earth or a Globe Earth.

My understanding of "Earth" when I read it in the Bible, it is describing a galaxy, not a planet. A galaxy is flat. The "four winds" is the four major arms of our galaxy.

Huge numbers of stars did 'fell' into our galaxy in the distant past and got absorbed. Stars don't fall into a planet but it can to a galaxy.

There is huge abundance of a material floating around in our galaxy not unlike ordinary soil (earth). These soil in space or 'spacedust' are the remains of dead stars (from dust into dust)

Angels are often referred to as 'stars'. Each nation is protected by its own angel - a solar system wherein each nation is a habited planet orbiting a star (the angel). Now this angel can either be good or evil (a fallen angel).

Prophet Enoch gave a detailed description of 'Earth' in the Book of Enoch, but instead of describing a planet, gave us cutting-edge modern description of our Milky Way galaxy.

"Nations waging war against nations" describes inter-galactic warfare. "Star Wars" for the sci-fi minded readers. Nations conquering nations is nothing more than alien invasions which did happened multiple times in the Earth's ancient history. Simply people just like us but wielding far more advanced technology and pretending to be gods to deceive everyone. They're not demons but people with evil agendas.

 

[coffee4u]

My understanding of "Earth" when I read it in the Bible, it is describing a galaxy, not a planet. A galaxy is flat. The "four winds" is the four major arms of our galaxy.

Huge numbers of stars did 'fell' into our galaxy in the distant past and got absorbed. Stars don't fall into a planet but it can to a galaxy.

There is huge abundance of a material floating around in our galaxy not unlike ordinary soil (earth). These soil in space or 'spacedust' are the remains of dead stars (from dust into dust)

Angels are often referred to as 'stars'. Each nation is protected by its own angel - a solar system wherein each nation is a habited planet orbiting a star (the angel). Now this angel can either be good or evil (a fallen angel).

Prophet Enoch gave a detailed description of 'Earth' in the Book of Enoch, but instead of describing a planet, gave us cutting-edge modern description of our Milky Way galaxy.

"Nations waging war against nations" describes inter-galactic warfare. "Star Wars" for the sci-fi minded readers. Nations conquering nations is nothing more than alien invasions which did happened multiple times in the Earth's ancient history. Simply people just like us but wielding far more advanced technology and pretending to be gods to deceive everyone. They're not demons but people with evil agendas.

The Hebrew word translated as "earth" is ארץ (erets) It can mean the whole "earth," it is usually used as "land" or "region".
I have never seen it used as "galaxy".
The King James Version of the Bible translates erets as: land (1543 times), earth (712), country (140), ground (98), world (4), way (3), common (1), field (1) and nations (1).

שָׁמַיִם‎ (šāmayīm) is "heavens". Meaning the dwelling place of God and other heavenly beings.

 

[timewerx]

The Hebrew word translated as "earth" is ארץ (erets) It can mean the whole "earth," it is usually used as "land" or "region".
I have never seen it used as "galaxy".
The King James Version of the Bible translates erets as: land (1543 times), earth (712), country (140), ground (98), world (4), way (3), common (1), field (1) and nations (1).

שָׁמַיִם‎ (šāmayīm) is "heavens". Meaning the dwelling place of God and other heavenly beings.

You'll have to take the overall context of it.

Galaxies does have 'solid ground' in the form of rocky planets. 'Earth' can not just refer to one habited planet but can also refer to all the habited rocky planets in our galaxy, collectively speaking. The space between the planets would be the heavens.

The Biblical account that a group of stars fell into our galaxy (the fallen angels) is confirmed by modern astronomy. Such event did happened in our galaxy eons past and the stars came from another galaxy that made a close pass to ours.

When two galaxies interact when they get close to each other, they form what looks a 'tail' like the 'dragon' sweeping a third of the stars with its 'tail' in Revelation.

The main reason of misinterpretation in both science and Biblical studies is man's selfish, self-centered, self-absorbed, extremely conceited nature. And trying to interpret scriptures with these preconceived biases. I'm NOT accusing you of this problem as you simply heard what you know from church sermons, from other Christians who also heard it from others etc.

At first, we thought Earth is the center of the Universe, then it became our Sun. Then it turns out the Sun isn't the center of the Universe either. And then now we're finding out the Earth isn't the only habitable planet in the whole Galaxy.

All selfish, conceited assumptions that science have proven wrong. I'm not promoting Science over our belief of God. But Christianity is about finding out the Truth and science can serve as a tool for finding out the truth.

People from other 'Earth's' will get here eventually, interact, or even make war with us, invade us and subject us to their rule. The Bible said it would be expected if you treat "Earth" as more than just one planet. It may have even happened already. We have everything we need to solve all the world's problems but we chose not to. Only a madman would behave like that or someone held on a string. Who would be pulling those strings?

 

[Apple Sky]

In the Bible there is a difference between the word circle and the word ball. Therefore the earth cannot be a spinning ball hurtling through space, it must however be circular, flat & stationary.


King James Bible Isaiah 40:22
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

King James Bible Isaiah 22:18
He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house.

 

[BeyondET]

In the Bible there is a difference between the word circle and the word ball. Therefore the earth cannot be a spinning ball hurtling through space, it must however be circular, flat & stationary.


King James Bible Isaiah 40:22
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

King James Bible Isaiah 22:18
He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house.

A ball is a 360 degree circle in all directions.

 

[Job 33:6]

A ball is a 360 degree circle in all directions.

Balls are not compass inscribed, nor the shape of a stamp, as described in proverbs and Job verses noted in the original post.