Poll as a born again Christian do you still sin

[eleos1954]

Something that’s always bothered me is there are a few verses in the Bible that say that a person who is born again will not or cannot sin.

“We know that whosoever is begotten of God sinneth not; but he that was begotten of God keepeth himself, and the evil one toucheth him not.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:18‬ ‭ASV‬‬

“Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭ASV‬‬

These struck me as pretty strong evidence because even looking into the Greek I can’t find anything indicating that this is a mistranslation. Even looking into the definition of the Greek words I can’t find any indication that they can have an alternate meaning. Furthermore when I look into verses that say we all still sin they are worded in a way that could be referring to past sin and possibly not future or present sins. My heart tells me that all Christians will still sin no matter how hard we try not to. I’ve met many many extremely devoted Christians and all of them admit they still sin. I’ve actually never met a Christian in person who claims they don’t still sin. I find it very hard to believe that I’ve never met anyone who is born again. I have really tried very hard to devote my life to Christ. I’m always studying and trying to learn from other Christians who have different perspectives and no matter how hard I try to achieve this goal I fail. Now I don’t steal, lie, cheat, drink alcohol, harm or attack others, etc. Mostly my sins are things like doubt, worry, complaining, frustration, and occasionally pride. Maybe some light boasting in there as well. I believe that everyone will sin even after being born again. I believe there is a difference between being a slave to sin and occasionally stumbling in sin. As Christians we are no longer a slave to sin we are no longer controlled by our sinful nature but we are not perfect and will still stumble from time to time. This is what I believe. So I decided to create this poll to see what percentage of Christians claim they don’t sin and to perhaps see more perspectives on this subject to see if there’s some evidence I’m missing to help me better understand whether I’m just truly not born again or that everyone sins whether they are born again or not. In the event this becomes a debate between those who claim not to sin and those who claim they do sin I will remind everyone please refrain from saying that a person is not a Christian or is not born again as it is against the forum rules.

Even though we are born again and are forgiven we still have the sin nature, and yes, we do sin.

Romans 7

14We know that the Law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do, I do not do. But what I hate, I do. 16And if I do what I do not desire, I admit that the Law is good. 17In that case, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For I do not do the good I want to do. Instead, I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. 20And if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21So this is the principle I have discovered: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God’s Law. 23But I see another law at work in my body, warring against the law of my mind and holding me captive to the law of sin that dwells within me. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with my mind I serve the law of God, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

 

[PaulCyp1]

Of course you do. Being born again doesn't make us perfect. We are still human. But being born again does put us in contact with the healing power of God, so that over time we will be healed in many ways, and sin less as a result.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Gal 2:17
"But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid."

Romans 6:1-2
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?"

Galatians 2 is referring to being justified by the law. It’s not referring to sin.

Romans 6:1-2 uses the words continue in sin and live in sin which could mean we don’t continue to sin or live a sinful life. It doesn’t necessarily mean we won’t stumble in sin.

 

[RaymondG]

Galatians 2 is referring to being justified by the law. It’s not referring to sin.

Romans 6:1-2 uses the words continue in sin and live in sin which could mean we don’t continue to sin or live a sinful life. It doesn’t necessarily mean we won’t stumble in sin.

It is possible to make the word say anything we believe..... Which is why wisdom is given by God to those who ask him for it....

 

[BNR32FAN]

Even though we are born again and are forgiven we still have the sin nature, and yes, we do sin.

Romans 7

14We know that the Law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do, I do not do. But what I hate, I do. 16And if I do what I do not desire, I admit that the Law is good. 17In that case, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For I do not do the good I want to do. Instead, I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. 20And if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21So this is the principle I have discovered: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God’s Law. 23But I see another law at work in my body, warring against the law of my mind and holding me captive to the law of sin that dwells within me. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with my mind I serve the law of God, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

Wow thanks for sharing this. I had not contemplated this concept. This appears to be speaking of a duality within a Christian. Two opposing natures pulling us in two different directions. Very interesting I’m very surprised I haven’t noticed this before. I’m not sure how I could correctly apply this to 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Everyone is making lovely points.

In our Christian walk we should see improvements with our relationship to sin and sinful things.

For instance, I was convicted smoking was a sin and I, through the help of Christ, was able to quit.

Also, I went from having a heart full of hatred (and I really did too) that hate thawed immediately and became a heart of love and brotherhood.

Sure, there are things God is still working with me on... But I've come a very long way in under 4 years. So much so I'm a different person than I once was.. I can definitely see Christ working in my life.

You may not have had major life changing items on your to do list after salvation, but even you if you step back and look at how far you came, ought to be also seeing an improvement through Christ, wrought in His love.

 

[BNR32FAN]

It is possible to make the word say anything we believe..... Which is why wisdom is given by God to those who ask him for it....

I think thru ample study of the Bible as a whole the truth can be discerned. But I would agree that by looking at single verses a person can easily twist the Bible’s meanings.

 

[Dave L]

Something that’s always bothered me is there are a few verses in the Bible that say that a person who is born again will not or cannot sin.

“We know that whosoever is begotten of God sinneth not; but he that was begotten of God keepeth himself, and the evil one toucheth him not.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:18‬ ‭ASV‬‬

“Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭ASV‬‬

These struck me as pretty strong evidence because even looking into the Greek I can’t find anything indicating that this is a mistranslation. Even looking into the definition of the Greek words I can’t find any indication that they can have an alternate meaning. Furthermore when I look into verses that say we all still sin they are worded in a way that could be referring to past sin and possibly not future or present sins. My heart tells me that all Christians will still sin no matter how hard we try not to. I’ve met many many extremely devoted Christians and all of them admit they still sin. I’ve actually never met a Christian in person who claims they don’t still sin. I find it very hard to believe that I’ve never met anyone who is born again. I have really tried very hard to devote my life to Christ. I’m always studying and trying to learn from other Christians who have different perspectives and no matter how hard I try to achieve this goal I fail. Now I don’t steal, lie, cheat, drink alcohol, harm or attack others, etc. Mostly my sins are things like doubt, worry, complaining, frustration, and occasionally pride. Maybe some light boasting in there as well. I believe that everyone will sin even after being born again. I believe there is a difference between being a slave to sin and occasionally stumbling in sin. As Christians we are no longer a slave to sin we are no longer controlled by our sinful nature but we are not perfect and will still stumble from time to time. This is what I believe. So I decided to create this poll to see what percentage of Christians claim they don’t sin and to perhaps see more perspectives on this subject to see if there’s some evidence I’m missing to help me better understand whether I’m just truly not born again or that everyone sins whether they are born again or not. In the event this becomes a debate between those who claim not to sin and those who claim they do sin I will remind everyone please refrain from saying that a person is not a Christian or is not born again as it is against the forum rules.

The way it works for me is that we do not habitually sin outwardly as in breaking the Commandments. But we are tempted inwardly by the flesh. As long as we don't yield to the temptation, it isn't sin. But it takes constant monitoring of our thoughts and imaginations to hold temptation at bay.

“Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.” (2 Corinthians 10:5–6)

 

[BNR32FAN]

Everyone is making lovely points.

In our Christian walk we should see improvements with our relationship to sin and sinful things.

For instance, I was convicted smoking was a sin and I, through the help of Christ, was able to quit.

Also, I went from having a heart full of hatred (and I really did too) that hate thawed immediately and became a heart of love and brotherhood.

Sure, there are things God is still working with me on... But I've come a very long way in under 4 years. So much so I'm a different person than I once was.. I can definitely see Christ working in my life.

You may not have had major life changing items on your to do list after salvation, but even you if you step back and look at how far you came, ought to be also seeing an improvement through Christ, wrought in His love.

Yes I turned to God almost 6 years ago and back then if someone would’ve told me that I would later love to read and study the Bible I would’ve laughed saying you’ve got the wrong guy. I never thought I would read the Bible let alone study it and change my life and become a Christian. Praise The Lord for reaching out to a wretch like me.

 

[JimBeta]

I believe that being reborn is not really a state we immediately achieve but more as a work in process. That’s why we still can sin while we are being reborn. When a child gets born, it is not there immediately. It grows in the womb of the mother. It develops arms and ears and eyes and feet. The same way is with us. When we are being reborn we develop more good characteristics and less bad ones. We get reborn and sin less over time. We start to work on our self and we become reborn. Once we are fully reborn it is true, we can not sin anymore. But if we get to that stage, in our body that is directed still by the flesh, that I do not know.
I could be wrong of course but I do not believe that one can be without sin in this life.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Wow a lot of great responses here. I’m certain the truth can be found in so many Christians coming together. Praise The Lord!!

 

[JimBeta]

Another thing that is a possibility is that when we obey in accepting Christ we do not sin anymore because sin has to do with disobeying Gods Law. When there was the law of Moses it was simply: whatever rule you broke, you broke the complete law by doing so. So if you broke one rule, you had failed by the whole law. Why is this? Because the real sin is not the rules, but what we do with the rules. Obeying or disobeying. The sin is not in the stealing, the sin is in disobeying God rule that says: you shall not steal. If we look at the law like that we can understand that once we accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior we obey the new covenant rule. We obey God by accepting Christ and there for we do not sin, which is the disobeying of God, anymore. But that can be far stretched and I do not know if it is truth

 

[Call me Nic]

I sinned yesterday evening while out soul-winning. Had a momentary weakness of the flesh. Showed me how susceptible we are as Christians to sinning because of our flesh, even while walking in the Spirit.

 

[NW82]

An Elder once told me that it is possible to go a day without sinning, and I believe him. It is possible, but to say we never sin again after becoming born again is ridiculous. Becoming a slave to sin and struggling with sin are two different things. I struggle with sin everyday, and I know it.

 

[eleos1954]

Wow thanks for sharing this. I had not contemplated this concept. This appears to be speaking of a duality within a Christian. Two opposing natures pulling us in two different directions. Very interesting I’m very surprised I haven’t noticed this before. I’m not sure how I could correctly apply this to 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18.

"Two opposing natures pulling us in two different directions"

The battle between good and evil. The battle has been won by Jesus. We wait for Him to come and take the "survivors" home ;o) Amen.

 

[RaymondG]

I think thru ample study of the Bible as a whole the truth can be discerned. But I would agree that by looking at single verses a person can easily twist the Bible’s meanings.

I believe that the more we study the letters and develop ideas and doctrine, the further we get from the truth and the harder it is for truth to be revealed to us. The pharisees were masters of the law....masters of the written word......and this made things of the spirit seem blasphemous to them. The same is true for the multitudes today. They hear parables so that they will think they see and hear, but dont really see and hear.

Paul only gave milk.....because we are not ready to hear more than that...
"I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able"

We are talking about milk now.....yet the topic of reaching perfection.... to be without sin is of a spiritual nature....

"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment"

Very few have moved passed this......very few will....very few desire to....

 

[JimBeta]

People, not even Paul looked at himself as being perfect, was Paul not reborn then? Phillipians 3
11If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

 

[JimBeta]

So to be honest, if Paul not even looked at himself as being perfect (which means in my opinion: without sin) then what are we all talking about here?

 

[RaymondG]

Should we, then, only strive to achieve the highest that we believe another has achieved....or can we go further? Shall we expect and desire to make the same mistakes as others, so can we try to avoid them. Should be believe Jesus when He said we can do greater things?

 

[bling]

A couple things I’ve been thinking about pertaining to this question is Peter walked on water and yet later he denied Jesus 3 times. Walking on water shows a huge amount of faith. No doubt Peter was a believer and even received the revelation from God that Jesus is the Son of God. Yet Peter still committed a very HUGE SIN. Something I think most of us would never do which is to deny Christ and not just one time but 3 times in a single night.

Another thing I was thinking about is The Lord’s Prayer. “Forgive us our trespasses”. Jesus said we should pray like this. I think this is another piece of evidence that believers even born again believers will still sin.

Is this addressing my comments in post 15?
Peter did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit at the time of his denial.