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Please tell me if I'm wrong

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cactusrose

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I agree not to say "or I'll show you where the door is" he already sounds very insecure and besides that is inflamtory and you don't have time to kittty cat foot around.

A better way to say that is I need and want your help and to cooperate and work with me to accomplish what obviously needs to be done to improve our situation .But if you cant or wont I will have to do this on my own.That is up to you .
 
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LinkH

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Have you ever read that myth about Hercules trying to find out something-- maybe Prometheus' whereabouts. So he asks Atlas, who in the legend was holding the sky on his shoulders. Atlas agrees if Hercules holds the sky just for a moment so he could have a moment of rest-- something he hasn't had in ages. Hercules holds the sky, and Atlas laughs at him and tells him he's free. Hercules says, oh it's too heavy. I'm going to drop it. Can you take it for a second so I can adjust my position. In a panic, Atlas takes hold of the sky. Hercules jumps down laughing, freed from the burden. I think he got the information out of Atlas, too.

Sorry for the pagan-ness of my analogy. You've got to figure out a way to get your husband to take the responsibility for the burden for taking care of these financial woes so that he feels it is his burden, and his decision. If you are scheduling a move from your apartment and asking him to take days off, he may just ignore it. If he's scheduling it, he'll probably be there. You've got to figure out how to back off and change the dynamics of the relationship.
 
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cactusrose

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Oh and any putting of the foot down should be about you not doing the things that are immoral or illegal.Rather than here is the door.It should be I refuse to go against my morals and write pornagraphy or engage in federal crimes for convenience sake.Im going this way the right way and the way I can be O.K with myself please respect me and support me in that way.

You can shut the door on going outside of your bounderies without threatening to shut the door on him.His option will be to walk away freely if he wont respect your sense of morals (which are healthy in my opinion) or stay and be a part of moving forward the right way.

One concern if your bankruptcy is approved.The pattern of living beyond your means has to change or you will be in the same spot lickety split.He has to understand that too.So maybe he needs to talk to someone besides you for that to sink in.
 
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Helpme22

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I talked to him last night and he just shut down. He got an angry look on his face and said he was "done talking" even though he never really spoke.

I was kind and just told him I needed him to be a partner and teammate instead of pushing all the burdens onto me.

Just the simplest things... Will set him off. For example, this morning (and most mornings) he will be getting ready to leave for work and will have his linch and over the shoulder bag. He screamed out "can you open the door please" but I didn't hear him. I asked what he said and he gave me THAT look and said "open the door please!". He just can't even manage to walk out the door without my help.

I said "really?" to his tone ... And he got MAD and said "I just asked you to open the door.. What is YOUR deal".

It is just too hard for him to even leave the house without assistance!
 
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cactusrose

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It sounds less like hes done talking rather hes not willing to listen.Or alternately maybe he did listen and since he didn't respond you continued since you didnt feel heard and so therefore kept on hence he said "I'm done talking".Its possible that you and he have different communication styles and aren't getting each other in the sense I have been heard and I have heard you .

Im only guessing but yelling can you open the door please could be his insecurity and he is wanting to know you are going to be there for him after your conversation .Yes that is immature but that's what happens with very insecure people.

In some way and this is to be helpful and its in no way a long term answer maybe you need to reassure him that you are not going to abandon him but he is going to have to work with you .But you need to stress its the two of you and you depend on him too.

He seems deeply insecure .I could be wrong but he sounds that way to me if he thinks he needs you to open the door for him then that's needing reassurance you are there for him.
 
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Romanseight2005

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You know, I have to say that if my husband yelled at me for not getting the door for him, I would have to point out to him that he was being ridiculous. I have to set things down, all of the time, to open the door for myself, It's NOT a big deal, and I am thankful and appreciative if someone notices that I have to put something down, in order to open the door, and opens it for me, but I would NEVER assume that I am entitled to have someone drop whatever they are doing, and run to my aid. I am sorry, but to me it sounds like he feels entitled to be served, and gets mad when your not on call to do that.
 
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Helpme22

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Exactly!!! And this door incident happens almost daily. It's not because of our conversation last night. It's just an example of how he treats me. He can be super nice when he knows he needs too (he is always super supportive after my therapy sessions because he knows I am more on guard).

But when you get to the core.. The door incident would be an issue that describes him.

I had to have surgery a few years ago (specialist out of state). It was reconstructive. But he didn't drive me to airport, ask who the doctor was or even care where I was staying after.

In fact he told me right before my surgery that he was going to have to work late and I needed to call the sitter and have the time covered.


We discussed this in therapy and THAT won't happen again... But that's who he is. At the core.




You know, I have to say that if my husband yelled at me for not getting the oor for him, I would have to point out to him that he was being ridiculous. I have to set things down, all of the time, to open the door for myself, It's NOT a big deal, and I am thankful and appreciative if someone notices that I have to put something down, in order to open the door, and opens it for me, but I would NEVER assume that I am entitled to have someone drop whatever they are doing, and run to my aid. I am sorry, but to me it sounds like he feels entitled to be served, and gets mad when your not on call to do that.
 
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cactusrose

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Exactly!!! And this door incident happens almost daily. It's not because of our conversation last night. It's just an example of how he treats me. He can be super nice when he knows he needs too (he is always super supportive after my therapy sessions because he knows I am more on guard).

But when you get to the core.. The door incident would be an issue that describes him.

I had to have surgery a few years ago (specialist out of state). It was reconstructive. But he didn't drive me to airport, ask who the doctor was or even care where I was staying after.

In fact he told me right before my surgery that he was going to have to work late and I needed to call the sitter and have the time covered.


We discussed this in therapy and THAT won't happen again... But that's who he is. At the core.

He is selfish and spoiled no doubt.Besides calling him out on that I don't know what else to advise you.

:pray:
 
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Romanseight2005

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I think it's really possible to overanalyze the door incident. It sounds more like he was angry or upset about the argument. I don't think it's productive to look at incidents like this as a metaphor for the relationship and add them to the list of wrongdoings.



It is healthy to understand patterns of behavior, so that one can keep himself/herself walking in the truth. I do agree that it wouldn't be healthy to record it as a wrong, and mull over that. There is a huge difference between looking at the reasons things happen, and what happens, as a way to problem solve, and prevent future issues, even if it means controlling her own responses only, and magnifying a wrong in one's mind. That is definitely harmful.

If her husband does have a common pattern of behavior that shows that he values his own comfort, over her well being, then understanding that and confronting him, in the right way, at the right time, could be very helpful. It also helps her to weigh everything with the correct weight.

That said, it is also good to remember positive things and give them proper weight in one's mind. No drawback of one's spouse should be magnified, so I agree with you in that way. But I think we can be so afraid of passing judgement, or harboring anger, that we don't face things, and that is very harmful.

That's why we need to be careful about throwing a blanket solution on problems with an,"Overlook it," attitude. That is not doing the Godly thing, rather, it's throwing away one's access to wisdom and discernment.

James 1:5

5 But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach,
NASU

Matthew 10:16-17
Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.
NKJV

2 Timothy 1:7

7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind .
KJV
1 Corinthians 2:16
ut we have the mind of Christ.
NIV
 
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sdmsanjose

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Helpme22
What stuck out to me is your statement below:

Quotes of Helpme22

I was kind and just told him I needed him to be a partner and teammate instead of pushing all the burdens onto me.

He just can't even manage to walk out the door without my help
.

Then I noticed this


Yes! That's basically it. He just doesn't see anything wrong with the erotic books. Obviously.

And I'm full of resentment over it all. And guilt because I feel like I've let my family down by not being able to fix this and make it all go away.


Your state of mind and emotions are very destructive to your life. Assuming that your husband is a person that cops out and dumps almost all the responsibility on you and then uses his words to manipulate you for his ease of life, I would say this.

One or both of you are going to have to change or your marriage will crash and burn. Resentment and guilt are great marriage killers. For people to make a significant change in their habits it usually takes a jolting crisis. Your thoughts about separation would definitely be something that I would do in your case. You said:

By helpme22
I feel like separating might at least give me a chance to see life from an objective standpoint. I don't know, I just realize what I've done so far, has not helped me.


You have to do what is best for you and your family and so far it seems that your options are very limited. What you have done so far has not worked so separation maybe the jolt that is needed for him to change and perhaps maybe if you get that objective view you mentioned then you may see some change that you have to make.

Most Christians would not see your situation as a situation that warrants divorce (I also agree) but something has to be done when resentment and guilt are in a marriage. I believe that separation is an option. I do not recall any scriptures that have a stern statement about separation being a sin so if there are any I have missed them. Besides sometimes you have to do what is not considered lily white perfect Christian by the perfectionist when you are faced with a serious crises in your life. You being a person that values the Bible would lead me to believe that you have prayed and sought God in this matter. I would continue to encourage you to continue to do that.

If your husband is what you described then he needs some correction and accountability and if you can jolt him out of his cop-outs then you will be a mate that is helping him


Genesis 2:18
And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
 
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LinkH

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resentment and guilt are in a marriage. I believe that separation is an option. I do not recall any scriptures that have a stern statement about separation being a sin so if there are any I have missed them.


I Corinthians 7
10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.



Another way to handle this would be to tell her husband she can't handle it (since it involves sinning), tell him she is expecting him to lead her through the crisis. If he wants her to take over, just step off and leave him with the helm. Hopefully, he'll grab a hold of it. She can encourage him with positive words, rather than just fighting, to take over. Hopefully, in this case, his leading would be leading through a move.

If he doesn't step up, then let a crisis just happen. Ideally you'd want it to happen with a small crisis if it had to happen.
 
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Helpme22

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Without sounding stupid here, let me ask a question. I have spent so much time handling everything.

Would it be unfair if I just told him that I can't write anymore and I really don't want to file for bankruptcy? Would it be unfair for me to ask him to lead our family and fix these issues? And if he doesn't/won't ... Then finally say I need to step away for me and for my son?

He had NEVER lead anything in our family and every time I've tried to give him the reins.. We've ended up in DEEP trouble.

Thanks to you guys here... For the first time I really feel like I can see that I need to let go and just hand over the burden to him. He can at least try and step up and help... If he cares, right?

This shouldn't be just on me, right?
 
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LinkH

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Without sounding stupid here, let me ask a question. I have spent so much time handling everything.

Would it be unfair if I just told him that I can't write anymore and I really don't want to file for bankruptcy? Would it be unfair for me to ask him to lead our family and fix these issues? And if he doesn't/won't ... Then finally say I need to step away for me and for my son?

He had NEVER lead anything in our family and every time I've tried to give him the reins.. We've ended up in DEEP trouble.

Thanks to you guys here... For the first time I really feel like I can see that I need to let go and just hand over the burden to him. He can at least try and step up and help... If he cares, right?

This shouldn't be just on me, right?


We're just getting one side of the story here. You said your husband doesn't want to go to a counselor to get the other side. (Have you tried a priest, friend etc. who doesn't have the 'counselor' label?) I notice you say things about resentment. We don't mean to, but we all put our own spin on things because we see it from our perspective.

What you've said about your husband not protecting you or caring for you after you were sick really concern me. On the other hand, he does work a full-time job and seems to be basically responsible on a number of areas on his life. I wouldn't want to advise someone to leave their husband and take the kids. I also think it's a bit dangerous for someone to do that just based on a conversation like this with limited information.

But this man should be holding the reigns. If you want him to hold the reigns and take over responsibility, you might have to let him drive you into trouble, or let him drive you into a way that seems like you'll be in trouble. You'll have to give him freedom to make some mistakes without fearing he will get it from you.

Why isn't he taking over? Maybe he doesn't understand what a man is supposed to be. Maybe he didn't have a good role model, or just didn't pay attention to it. Maybe he made a conscious choice. He could be insecure, and you are a real go-getter, so he got into this mode where you are like his mother and take care of everything.

The problem with that is, that is usually a cycle, IMO--I'm not an expert on this, so I'm just speaking from what I've seen and read. The wife controls things around the house. If the man doesn't go along with it, she gives him a hard time. To keep the peace, the man placates his wife, instead of standing up to her when she's being bossy or domineering or won't let him take the reigns. Or he could just be passive and like his wife doing this. If the man doesn't tow the line she gives him, she gets emotional or whatever. He just wants peace when he comes home, so he doesn't want to rock her emotional boat. So she calls the shots, and he kind of enjoys letting her handle everything. He's afraid she'll get on his case if he tries to take something over and messes up.

If you study management, you'll see that highly innovate cultures 'reward failure.' At the very least, they allow room for it. If you worked at 3M, a highly innovative adhesives company, and you got an okay from other experts in the company about a new product idea, you did your market research, and everything made sense to launch the product-- but it flopped-- they wouldn't fire you. A highly innovative company might actually reward you a little bit for taking initiative. The reason is, in their case, a lot of things fail, but they need people to be innovators.

If you want your husband to take over responsibility-- even take over the reigns from the family, you need to let him make some mistakes. If you are there to grab the reigns from him when he starts driving a way you don't like, that's counterproductive.

My wife used to be a terrible backseat driver. She sat shotgun, but she'd keep telling me to get in this lane or that to get out of the traffic in a congested Asian city. It was maddening. She didn't have the driver's side mirror to see the traffic coming. Fortunately, she stopped that. I think it was a work of the Lord in her heart that was rather all encompassing that stopped it. Last night, she started doing it again and I asked her to stop. Fortunately, she did.

Your husband doesn't need you there telling him how to drive as if you are driving through him. If he doesn't want to take over the reigns because you've had them, and he doesn't have any confidence or just doesn't realize that those are his reigns you've been holding, and his responsibility, that's a little more difficult. My guess is that is the situation you find him in.

I guess you could try explaining that those are his reigns you've been holding. You can apologize for your part of holding the reigns, and assure him, if he takes them, even if he wrecks the sleigh, you'll still respect him-- so he won't be too afraid of making a mistake. But you do want him to drive. If he'll agree to drive and really do it, you may find yourself in a less stressful situation-- eventually. Letting him drive may be really stressful at first.

If you let him make a few mistakes and don't go nuclear on him, that may help him build up his confidence. If he's insecure about himself, this may go a long way. You also have to communicate that he doesn't placate you, by accepting things he wants to do, not trying to dominate the decision making or getting huffy if you don't get your way. Encourage him. Tell him you respect him if he makes a decision, and you are so happy he's taken over these responsibilities to let you focus on other things.

And don't underestimate praying for him. My wife is a great woman, but she's a human being everyone else. She's a very capable person. But there have been some areas in her life where she's needed some work. She had a tendency to try to take things over-- something a capable, sometimes driven, person like her might find natural. There were issues related to respect and various other things. I started praying intensely for her, asked God to speak to her, and God answered a rather long prayer list point by point. About two nights later, she started telling me how God had shown here most of the things I'd prayed the Lord show her about herself, and she told me about Him speaking to her about the rest of the things within a few weeks. Pray in faith for your husband to step up and take responsibilities, and for yourself to have the strength to step back. Sometimes it takes more strength to control yourself and step back than it does to take care of things all by yourself.


As far as not writing erotica or going bankrupt goes, you serve God first. You shouldn't sin to please your hsuband. Honoring God should underlie your motivation for how you interact with your husband. The reason you respect/reverence your husband should be because you respect and reverence Christ and you show it to Christ by respecting your husband. The way you treat your husband should be 'as unto the Lord.' This is how we should do our work and live our lives, as unto the Lord. It's pretty heavy when you think about it. Again, Ephesians 5, Colossians 3, and I Peter 3 give a lot of guidance for your situation. It's hard if your husband is passive. But you can discuss those passages, and maybe he'll get a visions for what he is supposed to be like from these passages and run with it.
 
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Helpme22

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I really appreciate your insight and suggestions. I can tell you even the smallest of efforts seem to go wrong.

He often relies on me to push him to even buy clothes. He needs them for work, he says. And it is so odd... When I get him to the store he will say he doesn't need to buy the things he had just told me he wanted to buy. It's like I have to become the MOM and tell him to buy clothes. So thanks to therapy I came up with a different approach. For his 40th bday I got him a 200 dollar gift card to his favorite store. (even though we are short on cash).
I knew he needed the clothes.

So then he started complaining again about how he needed clothes. So when we wee near the mall I suggested he go use the gift card.

He LOST it. Can't find it anywhere. Said he thinks he threw it out with the envelope. Now he wants me to go track down the purchase and see if I can get a new one.

See? I just can't win. And that's such a little thing!
 
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Romanseight2005

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I Corinthians 7
10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.



Another way to handle this would be to tell her husband she can't handle it (since it involves sinning), tell him she is expecting him to lead her through the crisis. If he wants her to take over, just step off and leave him with the helm. Hopefully, he'll grab a hold of it. She can encourage him with positive words, rather than just fighting, to take over. Hopefully, in this case, his leading would be leading through a move.

If he doesn't step up, then let a crisis just happen. Ideally you'd want it to happen with a small crisis if it had to happen.


But look at the second part of the scripture you posted.

If she depart, then.... Even in that scripture there is a provision made for a circumstance where it is needed.

also there is this....

1 Corinthians 7:5

5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer ; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
KJV


Even in that passage there is an allowance made for a time of separation. She said she wants separation to gain some clarity. That is perfect for a time of prayer and fasting.
 
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LinkH

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But look at the second part of the scripture you posted.

If she depart, then.... Even in that scripture there is a provision made for a circumstance where it is needed.

The verse before it just said not to separate. Committing adultery by remarrying is, apparently, worse than just departing.

also there is this....

1 Corinthians 7:5

5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer ; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
KJV

Even in that passage there is an allowance made for a time of separation. She said she wants separation to gain some clarity. That is perfect for a time of prayer and fasting.

To say that mutually agreeing not to have sex for a time to fast and pray is the same thing as 'separating' or 'departing' from one's spouse is a bit of a stretch. That's an understatement. If the passage meant what you said, then separating would have to be done with consent of her husband.

A previous verse not to separate.
 
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cactusrose

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I think it's really possible to overanalyze the door incident. It sounds more like he was angry or upset about the argument. I don't think it's productive to look at incidents like this as a metaphor for the relationship and add them to the list of wrongdoings.

Not to get stuck on the door incident.HelpMe has said this is an almost daily behavior so it does'tn seem to be an exception to a reaction to something she said in an argument .And the list again I would like to point out in my view its not just a list to keep track of wrongdoings.More so these incidences are all pointing to the same attitude and its the attitude that is whats leading to his behavior.The analogy Im tempted to use is perhaps you have multiple symptoms all due to a single illness.The symptoms all point to what disease you have.You list those symptoms for your doctor so he can diagnose.The symptoms even can seem if you isolate them like no big deal .Its when you put them all together they can make your life miserable where as if you only had to deal with one at a time and with long periods of health in between you would just forget about it.HelpMe sounds like she is dealing with a chronic ongoing situation with many symptoms i.e behaviors on her husbands end that all point to the same disease in this case an attitude.A very poor one I might add.
 
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4Bear

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On the topic of separation, think about 2 Cor 6:11-18.

Think about it regarding your business partnership writing erotica. For as long as you are in partnership with darkness, you hinder God's help.

James 4:7-10 (Message) So let God work his will in you. Yell a loud no to the Devil and watch him scamper. Say a quiet yes to God and he’ll be there in no time. Quit dabbling in sin. Purify your inner life. Quit playing the field. Hit bottom, and cry your eyes out. The fun and games are over. Get serious, really serious. Get down on your knees before the Master; it’s the only way you’ll get on your feet.

It's important to do this for yourself and your own relationship with God. Be prepared for things to get much worse with your husband for awhile when you get serious about your relationship with God.
 
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Helpme22

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Here's the hard part. When I get tough and stand up for what I think is right... He gets cold and difficult. He doesn't support me when he knows it won't lead to our/his benefit.

And then I lose my strength and objectivity. I want to tell him that I don't want to file for bankruptcy and I don't want to write. He will ask me how that's fair, considering my lack of writing will only fuel more financial problems.

I will then tell him (again) that I'd like him to try and figure out how we can get out of these problems. He will tell me that since we both have full time jobs that the only solution is for me to write.

And the problem is.... He's basically right. So they I go quiet... And back to trying to find ways to fix all of our problems.
 
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