Please learn English

[Ringo84]

Serious question. Does having packaging in multiple languages hurt or help those learning English? Think about it for a second. One gets exposed to the main thing one reads, their own language, but they also constantly see the translation. Eventually it startss to register. And of course for the Spanish speaking person eventually they come across something only in English and likely recognize a few words from that bilingual packaging.

BTW I just looked at the Potato chip package I have and unless Plano (a town in Texas) or Frito-lay are Spanish everything is English only. Oh and this is in Los Angeles (yes those 2 words are Spanish). Actually I'm in the San Fernando Valley, that is 2/3 Spanish.

I'm sure it'd be a help to them, as they could compare words in english and in their native language.
Ringo

 

[Markus6]

I say get your own language. You've already ruined ours enough.

 

[joebudda]

We can't have double-standards in how we enforce immigration law. We must either open our borders to all countries or tell Julio to go home.

I don't recognize borders. They only exist in our minds and on the maps we draw, not in real life.

What gives one individual more "right" to exist in some location over anyone else?

And you have dodged the question many times now. If a law is dumb, like in Missouri where it is illegal to have oral sex, why should we follow it?

Just because it is the "law"? Sorry that isn't good enough and is circular reasoning. (You must follow the law because it is the law)
That is as illogical as saying the Koran is the truth because the Koran says it is the truth.

I want you to rationally explain your reasoning rather then appealing to some dumb law (authority) that I don't see as authoritative.

 

[SpyridonOCA]

I don't recognize borders. They only exist in our minds and on the maps we draw, not in real life.

What gives one individual more "right" to exist in some location over anyone else?

And you have dodged the question many times now. If a law is dumb, like in Missouri where it is illegal to have oral sex, why should we follow it?

Just because it is the "law"? Sorry that isn't good enough and is circular reasoning. (You must follow the law because it is the law)
That is as illogical as saying the Koran is the truth because the Koran says it is the truth.

I want you to rationally explain your reasoning rather then appealing to some dumb law (authority) that I don't see as authoritative.

Your posts have outlived their purpose. We need to keep rapists, murderers, and drug dealers off our streets by any legal means necessary. Without immigration enforcement, we have no idea who is coming into our country.

 

[SpyridonOCA]

Serious question. Does having packaging in multiple languages hurt or help those learning English? Think about it for a second. One gets exposed to the main thing one reads, their own language, but they also constantly see the translation. Eventually it startss to register. And of course for the Spanish speaking person eventually they come across something only in English and likely recognize a few words from that bilingual packaging.

BTW I just looked at the Potato chip package I have and unless Plano (a town in Texas) or Frito-lay are Spanish everything is English only. Oh and this is in Los Angeles (yes those 2 words are Spanish). Actually I'm in the San Fernando Valley, that is 2/3 Spanish.

According to the equal protection clause, if you are going to include one foreign language, you must include them all. That is at least true for government entities.

 

[joebudda]

Your posts have outlived their purpose. We need to keep rapists, murderers, and drug dealers off our streets by any legal means necessary. Without immigration enforcement, we have no idea who is coming into our country.

By this logic you must believe that all immigrates are rapists and murderers. Which isn't true at all. So such an argument lacks rationality.

And you are appealing to authority (the law) again as if it means something. I am still waiting for you to explain why I should follow such a dumb law other then because you say so or appealing to circluar reasoning.

If they are not harming anyone, why do you care at all? Yes we should hold an individual accountable if they do force their will onto someone else. Because that is a crime, speaking another language or being born somewhere else isn't a crime (Corpus delicti).

So I would like to hear your rationale, I can care less about your illogical fear mongering and appeals to authority (which are based in circluar reasoning). I would like to see you make a logical case without appealing to these logical fallacies.

 

[SpyridonOCA]

By this logic you must believe that all immigrates are rapists and murderers. Which isn't true at all. So such an argument lacks rationality.

And you are appealing to authority (the law) again as if it means something. I am still waiting for you to explain why I should follow such a dumb law other then because you say so or appealing to circluar reasoning.

If they are not harming anyone, why do you care at all? Yes we should hold an individual accountable if they do force their will onto someone else. Because that is a crime, speaking another language or being born somewhere else isn't a crime (Corpus delicti).

So I would like to hear your rationale, I can care less about your illogical fear mongering and appeals to authority (which are based in circluar reasoning). I would like to see you make a logical case without appealing to these logical fallacies.

Again, your posts have outlived their purpose. I've already addressed your assertions several times over. Please read and reread this thread, if necessary.

 

[joebudda]

Again, your posts have outlived their purpose. I've already addressed your assertions several times over. Please read and reread this thread, if necessary.

You have answered with logical fallacies.
You do understand that answering with logical fallacies isn't rational? Don't you?
So I would like to hear your rationale, I can care less about your illogical fear mongering and appeals to authority (which are based in circluar reasoning). I would like to see you make a logical case without appealing to these logical fallacies.

And I am still waiting for you to explain why I should follow such a dumb law other then because you say so or appealing to circluar reasoning.

 

[Severos]

There are good points to be made from all sides of this debate. Let's please be civil. It doesn't seem like anyone has the intention to hurt anyone else. Politics isn't worth holding a grudge. If you can't agree to disagree, it's best that everyone move on to a different topic. The Bible teaches that we should obey the law of the land, while also welcoming foreigners into our homes. How can we do both at the same time? It's a matter of individual conscience.

 

[nolongerhome]

How can we reconcile the two?

By changing the law of the land so that it welcomes foreigners into our countries. Simple.

Though my political beliefs are diametrically opposed to Joebudda's, I admire the fact that his views are at the very least consistent.

 

[Severos]

By changing the law of the land so that it welcomes foreigners into our countries. Simple.

Conservatives and liberals can both agree that the system needs reform.

Though my political beliefs are diametrically opposed to Joebudda's, I admire the fact that his views are at the very least consistent.

Others just stay on message no matter what you say.

 

[Gremlins]

But, isn't it a free market? Surely companies can publish their crisp packets in whatever language they think should get the most money? Surely it would be criminal, immoral, communist, muslim, and unAmerican to force someone to learn a certain language?

Personally, living in Europe, where pretty much every product is multilingual, it wouldn't bother me to see other tongues on the stuff I buy. I can tell you how to say 'Gilette: comfort from the first stroke to the last' in about 30 languages >_> (It's a very big can of shaving cream).

 

[WorshipBassist]

I don't think that language is a massive issue- I live in Newcastle, with a large Polish and Chinese community. Most of the people living in these communities speak excellent English, but for their own personal use they use Polish/Chinese etc- the language that feels most natural to them.

With regard to the chip bag, that's just marketing- plenty of products have multilingual packaging so that they can sell to more people.

 

[Phylogeny]

I really don't see any special treatment for hispanics. In places where hispanics are a large minority, there are bilingual services offered in Spanish. But in places where there's a huge Vietnamese or Chinese population, there are services offered in those languages. Hispanics are not the only ones given bilingual service.

I have issues with bilingualism in schools though. Children learn best when 'thrown to the wolves'. It's actually a hinderence to have someone always there who speaks in their native tongue. However, given a large population that does not speak English well, it makes life easier to allow for some bilingual services.

Anyone who says, 'they should just learn English' have obviously studied another language in real depth. It takes a long while to become fluent in another language...what happens in the duration that the immigrant learns enough to converse in English? What happens if the immigrant witnesses a crime but doesn't know how to communicate well enough to give a good portrait of what they saw? What happens if a immigrant is sick and can't talk to their doctor about where they're hurting?

Here's another thought, since we do have a continued wave of immigrants coming to this country, even if the current wave of immigrants learn the language, there's always a new crop of immigrants that just arrived and don't speak anything. Bilingual programs should ideally be geared towards new immigrants, so I don't think it's pandering to anyone as long as it's a temporary service to help newcomers.

Is it possible to survive without any bilingual help? Sure. People in the past have done so (to a certain extent). But back then, immigrants didn't go to hospitals, they just suffered at home. Schools tended to ignore immigrant children and let them stumble through. Just because peopel in the past survived without bilingual services doesn't mean it was ideal. People also didn't immunize their kids.....does that mean we shouldn't today?

And what's wrong with making things easier for new arrivals? Certain services require immediate understanding of the language. Hospitals can't treat immigrants who can't speak the language. Schools may need to communicate children's needs to their parents. Should these services all wait until the parents acquire a working knowledge of the language before we communicate with them? I should hope not.

Then again, I'm just a pinko commie who plan on advertising her bilingual skills when I open up my own clinic someday.

 

[ScottishJohn]

I just happen to believe that traditional American culture is something worth preserving, and that having thousands of undocumented immigrants is insane if we are to have a criminal justice system that works.

America is one big nation of immigrants legal and otherwise.

What is American culture? Like most cultures, my own included, it is a collection of practises pinched from all over the globe.

'Traditional American culture' is pretty difficult to pin down. What it might mean in the south is quite different from what it might mean in the north east or the west.

You haven't defined what you mean by Tradional American culture, and why you feel it is threatened by Spanish on crisp packets. (Which may be more to do with accessing more markets than pandering to immigrants).

 

[ScottishJohn]

What makes apple pie, baseball, and mickey mouse, more traditional American culture than Empanadas, football and El Chavo del Ocho?
Serious question.

What's American about Apple pie? Heard the saying, never understood it. People were eating apple pies before anyone had heard of America.

 

[Phylogeny]

What's American about Apple pie? Heard the saying, never understood it. People were eating apple pies before anyone had heard of America.

It's a very sugary, unhealthy treat that people eat too much of...perhaps that's why it is considered "American"?