Please help me understand this thinking

[LovebirdsFlying]

My question here is aimed primarily at atheists, agnostics, or those who used to be. It's more a matter of family ethics than societal, but I couldn't find any better fit than this forum, because it needs to be somewhere that my target audience has access to. There goes Christian Advice, etc.

In our family we have a mix of Christians and atheists. From a Christian point of view, I can understand the urgency in wishing atheists would come to believe. The Christian thinking is, there is a life beyond this one, there is eternity to deal with, and we need to be ready for what happens after death. We also recognize, however, that we can only make that decision for ourselves, not others. Even our pastor (who used to be an atheist, by the way) says it's not our job to *make* others believe. As long as it's known and understood that we ourselves believe, and we're not hiding it, then we've done our job as far as other people are concerned. We don't have to keep relentlessly hammering at people, and in fact we shouldn't. If we're too repulsive and obnoxious, we can harm the cause instead by driving people away.

What I want to know is, why should the atheists care so much whether or not the Christians go on believing? If there is no life after death, and this world is all we have, then there is no place to spend eternity, and all I'm going to do after I die is decompose. If I spend my life believing something's going to happen besides that, and I turn out to be wrong, what's the big deal to the non-believer?

I ask because, although the topic is off the table between most of the Christians and atheists in our family, there is one who is actively evangelizing for atheism. We, as Christians, will politely drop the subject if we are asked to. Most of us would just like to get along and be a family, regardless of who believes what, because we see it as an individual choice. I mean, we also have Christians of different denominations, Catholic, Baptist, etc., and nobody's arguing about why your church is wrong and mine is right. We are not going to stop practicing our faith, but we aren't going to keep harping to other people about why they should. This young family member (who we love very much and would like to just hang around with) has been asked to leave the subject alone, but he won't. It seems very important to him that those of us who believe, stop doing that.

So, what difference does it make to an atheist if a Christian continues to believe?

 

[Kiterius]

My question here is aimed primarily at atheists, agnostics, or those who used to be. It's more a matter of family ethics than societal, but I couldn't find any better fit than this forum, because it needs to be somewhere that my target audience has access to. There goes Christian Advice, etc.

In our family we have a mix of Christians and atheists. From a Christian point of view, I can understand the urgency in wishing atheists would come to believe. The Christian thinking is, there is a life beyond this one, there is eternity to deal with, and we need to be ready for what happens after death. We also recognize, however, that we can only make that decision for ourselves, not others. Even our pastor (who used to be an atheist, by the way) says it's not our job to *make* others believe. As long as it's known and understood that we, ourselves, believe, and we're not hiding it, then we've done our job as far as other people are concerned. We don't have to keep relentlessly hammering at people, and in fact we shouldn't. If we're too repulsive and obnoxious, we can harm the cause instead by driving people away.

What I want to know is, why do the atheists care so much whether or not the Christians go on believing? If there is no life after death, and this world is all we have, then there is no place to spend eternity, and all I'm going to do after I die is decompose. If I spend my life believing something's going to happen besides that, and I turn out to be wrong, what's the big deal to the non-believer?

I ask because, although the topic is off the table between most of the Christians and atheists in our family, there is one who is actively evangelizing for atheism. We, as Christians, will politely drop the subject if we are asked to. Most of us would just like to get along and be a family, regardless of who believes what, because we see it as an individual choice. We are not going to stop practicing our faith, but we aren't going to keep harping to other people about why they should. This young family member (who we love very much and would like to just hang around with) has been asked to leave the subject alone, but he won't. It seems very important to him that those of us who believe, stop doing that.

So, what difference does it make to an atheist if a Christian continues to believe?

In my experience, atheists think we Christians are nutty for believing in God who can't be proven to exist and want to bring us to think rationally. They view God as being much like Santa Claus and want our thinking to evolve beyond.

 

[Hank77]

This young family member (who we love very much and would like to just hang around with) has been asked to leave the subject alone, but he won't. It seems very important to him that those of us who believe, stop doing that.

So, what difference does it make to an atheist if a Christian continues to believe?

Have you asked your family member why it is important to him? He may have different reasons than anyone here.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

I certainly will suggest asking, but I'd also like to know the possible reasons others might have for caring so much.

 

[pdudgeon]

i think the key here is that they are young. and those who are young are more prone to believe their friends than their relatives.
also there is a great deal of anti-Christian influence at schools these days, so sometimes Christians can be at a disadvantage.
all that said, it's a good thing to have Christianity back in politics these days. So if we can get more good press out there that might help things.

The one thing i can think of that might help is if either of the grandparents are Christian. if they are, then discussions about heaven might be of some help to let the young know that we believe there is a future out there.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

My question here is aimed primarily at atheists, agnostics, or those who used to be. It's more a matter of family ethics than societal, but I couldn't find any better fit than this forum, because it needs to be somewhere that my target audience has access to. There goes Christian Advice, etc.

In our family we have a mix of Christians and atheists. From a Christian point of view, I can understand the urgency in wishing atheists would come to believe. The Christian thinking is, there is a life beyond this one, there is eternity to deal with, and we need to be ready for what happens after death. We also recognize, however, that we can only make that decision for ourselves, not others. Even our pastor (who used to be an atheist, by the way) says it's not our job to *make* others believe. As long as it's known and understood that we ourselves believe, and we're not hiding it, then we've done our job as far as other people are concerned. We don't have to keep relentlessly hammering at people, and in fact we shouldn't. If we're too repulsive and obnoxious, we can harm the cause instead by driving people away.

What I want to know is, why should the atheists care so much whether or not the Christians go on believing? If there is no life after death, and this world is all we have, then there is no place to spend eternity, and all I'm going to do after I die is decompose. If I spend my life believing something's going to happen besides that, and I turn out to be wrong, what's the big deal to the non-believer?

I ask because, although the topic is off the table between most of the Christians and atheists in our family, there is one who is actively evangelizing for atheism. We, as Christians, will politely drop the subject if we are asked to. Most of us would just like to get along and be a family, regardless of who believes what, because we see it as an individual choice. I mean, we also have Christians of different denominations, Catholic, Baptist, etc., and nobody's arguing about why your church is wrong and mine is right. We are not going to stop practicing our faith, but we aren't going to keep harping to other people about why they should. This young family member (who we love very much and would like to just hang around with) has been asked to leave the subject alone, but he won't. It seems very important to him that those of us who believe, stop doing that.

So, what difference does it make to an atheist if a Christian continues to believe?

Sometimes people just have a passion for something, without a logical reason for that passion. Such people might climb mount Everest, try to get you interested in chess, or tell you all about the greatness of atheism.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

My question here is aimed primarily at atheists, agnostics, or those who used to be. It's more a matter of family ethics than societal, but I couldn't find any better fit than this forum, because it needs to be somewhere that my target audience has access to. There goes Christian Advice, etc.

In our family we have a mix of Christians and atheists. From a Christian point of view, I can understand the urgency in wishing atheists would come to believe. The Christian thinking is, there is a life beyond this one, there is eternity to deal with, and we need to be ready for what happens after death. We also recognize, however, that we can only make that decision for ourselves, not others. Even our pastor (who used to be an atheist, by the way) says it's not our job to *make* others believe. As long as it's known and understood that we ourselves believe, and we're not hiding it, then we've done our job as far as other people are concerned. We don't have to keep relentlessly hammering at people, and in fact we shouldn't. If we're too repulsive and obnoxious, we can harm the cause instead by driving people away.

What I want to know is, why should the atheists care so much whether or not the Christians go on believing? If there is no life after death, and this world is all we have, then there is no place to spend eternity, and all I'm going to do after I die is decompose. If I spend my life believing something's going to happen besides that, and I turn out to be wrong, what's the big deal to the non-believer?

I ask because, although the topic is off the table between most of the Christians and atheists in our family, there is one who is actively evangelizing for atheism. We, as Christians, will politely drop the subject if we are asked to. Most of us would just like to get along and be a family, regardless of who believes what, because we see it as an individual choice. I mean, we also have Christians of different denominations, Catholic, Baptist, etc., and nobody's arguing about why your church is wrong and mine is right. We are not going to stop practicing our faith, but we aren't going to keep harping to other people about why they should. This young family member (who we love very much and would like to just hang around with) has been asked to leave the subject alone, but he won't. It seems very important to him that those of us who believe, stop doing that.

So, what difference does it make to an atheist if a Christian continues to believe?

tbh I wish I asked this question, Guess i never thought of asking it or how to word it lol. Doesn't matter though can hear answers now assuming some atheist/ agnostics reply.

I find though with athiest...some seem to have huge egos.. i'm not putting them down or anything this is just important to acknowledge. The reason being is christianity is about submission, so I feel many question why would you submit yourself to a God partly becuase of Ego. It's important to remember though they are just acting as they are as a non believer. As someone away from god. They can't help themselves

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

He may also be under the impression he's the only atheist in the family. He's not, but he may not know that.

 

[musicalpilgrim]

This young family member (who we love very much and would like to just hang around with) has been asked to leave the subject alone, but he won't. It seems very important to him that those of us who believe, stop doing that.

I suspect that this young family member wants to be persuaded, in fact, may even desire to have a faith in Christ but will not admit it even to him/herself. I would be inclined to pray in faith that the Lord uses your witness, as you answer his arguments etc.

This is an interesting situation. I remember mocking my friend as a non Christian many years ago, knowing in my heart a yearning for the things of God. May the Lord bless your ministry

 

[dhh712]

What I want to know is, why should the atheists care so much whether or not the Christians go on believing? If there is no life after death, and this world is all we have, then there is no place to spend eternity, and all I'm going to do after I die is decompose. If I spend my life believing something's going to happen besides that, and I turn out to be wrong, what's the big deal to the non-believer?

It's because they think it is a dangerous way of thinking and living, that you're not being a positive member of society by having these beliefs influence your actions. They are absolutely right. We do not put the world first, we put God first. Though by living by God's laws, the world would be the best place it can be, the unbeliever does not think this is true. They feel Christians are a threat to the good of society, since we do not put the good of the world and mankind before all else.

The unbeliever is just doing what is his nature as a fallen creature: make war against God. There is no neutral ground. If you do not follow Christ, you follow the devil and his lies. Many unbelievers are fully for this (though of course don't think this is what they are doing), others have a confused understanding that they're "neutral", they don't hate Christianity, but it's just not their thing. Those that are militant atheists and hate Christians are just what you'd expect from someone who is in open rebellion to God. The good news of salvation is a savor of death unto death to them.

I was an atheist for almost 20 years. I didn't have this understanding while I was an unbeliever; the Christian religion just seemed to have a lot of holes in it and to not be much different than the other made-up religions. My brother is a militant atheist however, and he sees Christianity just as I described it: a dangerous way to live and think.

 

[CrystalDragon]

My question here is aimed primarily at atheists, agnostics, or those who used to be. It's more a matter of family ethics than societal, but I couldn't find any better fit than this forum, because it needs to be somewhere that my target audience has access to. There goes Christian Advice, etc.

In our family we have a mix of Christians and atheists. From a Christian point of view, I can understand the urgency in wishing atheists would come to believe. The Christian thinking is, there is a life beyond this one, there is eternity to deal with, and we need to be ready for what happens after death. We also recognize, however, that we can only make that decision for ourselves, not others. Even our pastor (who used to be an atheist, by the way) says it's not our job to *make* others believe. As long as it's known and understood that we ourselves believe, and we're not hiding it, then we've done our job as far as other people are concerned. We don't have to keep relentlessly hammering at people, and in fact we shouldn't. If we're too repulsive and obnoxious, we can harm the cause instead by driving people away.

What I want to know is, why should the atheists care so much whether or not the Christians go on believing? If there is no life after death, and this world is all we have, then there is no place to spend eternity, and all I'm going to do after I die is decompose. If I spend my life believing something's going to happen besides that, and I turn out to be wrong, what's the big deal to the non-believer?

I ask because, although the topic is off the table between most of the Christians and atheists in our family, there is one who is actively evangelizing for atheism. We, as Christians, will politely drop the subject if we are asked to. Most of us would just like to get along and be a family, regardless of who believes what, because we see it as an individual choice. I mean, we also have Christians of different denominations, Catholic, Baptist, etc., and nobody's arguing about why your church is wrong and mine is right. We are not going to stop practicing our faith, but we aren't going to keep harping to other people about why they should. This young family member (who we love very much and would like to just hang around with) has been asked to leave the subject alone, but he won't. It seems very important to him that those of us who believe, stop doing that.

So, what difference does it make to an atheist if a Christian continues to believe?

Even as a Catholic (albeit one who has doubts), I have an answer:

There have been many people who have done terrible things in the name of religion, or saying God commanded them to, or saying it's okay because the Bible permits it—three examples I can think of are the Crusades, the Confederacy using the Bible to justify keeping slaves, and a recent news where two rapists abused a teen girl for several years, and they've said they don't need a lawyer for their defense because the Bible will be enough of a defense for them. (Father and son accused of rape want ‘only law book that truly matters’ at their trial: The Bible)

The latter was especially devastating and horrible to me, both because rape is terribly evil and because it happened now, in our modern day. Atheists, agnostics, and/or people who are doubting (like myself in the third case) see that some things religion encourages destroys lives and in some cases (like the two rapists) is pure evil. True, some nonbelievers or doubters can be arrogant and ego-driven, but others see that religion can bring injustice, suffering, and fear through intimidation and they want to stop that from happening.

 

[Darkhorse]

They feel Christians are a threat to the good of society, since we do not put the good of the world and mankind before all else.

I agree. I also think that the Christian's belief is a threat to the atheist, as it confronts them with the possibility of being wrong. If no one believed in God, they would find it easier to rest assured that they are correct.

 

[Paradoxum]

1) General Harm: Christian belief isn't kept personal. It's forced on others and thus harms others. For example, taking away bodily integrity (abortion), freedom to marry a loved one, or control one's own life rather than the government (assisted dying). It also represses people, for example sexuality.

2) Truth: A belief in truth as good in itself. I appreciate what I consider the truth, and so keeping that to myself might be condescending.

3) Personal Harm and Truth: Those 'newly' deconverted can feel something similar to being lied to. They could feel like a cult took something from them, and so wish to speak against it, and hopefully free others of what they consider a cult.

 

[Paradoxum]

I agree. I also think that the Christian's belief is a threat to the atheist, as it confronts them with the possibility of being wrong. If no one believed in God, they would find it easier to rest assured that they are correct.

Lots of atheists used to be Christian, like me. I lost my belief trying to fight my doubts. I didn't lose faith because I disliked God, I lost faith even though I wanted to believe and love God.

 

[CrystalDragon]

Lots of atheists used to be Christian, like me. I lost my belief trying to fight my doubts. I didn't lose faith because I disliked God, I lost faith even though I wanted to believe and love God.

This, this, THIS, and I'm not even atheist.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

I think that many atheists have an agenda, and its rooted in brain mechanisms. If you supress "natural theism" (mode I) then the brain energy goes elsewhere. My guess: converting others to "the truth".

This is because theism still lingers as a part of the subconscious, its been repressed but not destroyed. So half of the atheists life is a justification of the non religious life, a why should I mode that keeps the brain in mode II.

So this moralistic justification of athism, it tends to be generalised... why should he, she or they...(?)

I'm not saying God does or doesn't exist, just that its been argued that basic "god beliefs" are fairly natural to us, and going against the grain might have a mechanism to it. It takes energy to keep it down.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

What I want to know is, why should the atheists care so much whether or not the Christians go on believing?

That's a question with many different answers as far as I am concerned. Because it kind of depends on what is actually believed and how it translates into behaviour and/or influences decision making.

Let's forget about Christianity for a second.

In general, I want my fellow citizens to be well educated. I want everybody to believe as many true things as possible and the least false things as possible. For the very simple reason that beliefs inform actions.

For example, I want my neighbour to believe / know about the dangers of gas leaks.
I want policy makers to understand to dangers of pollution.

All pretty practical stuff with immediate consequences.

So, in general, I have no problem with whatever people believe - as long as it has no negative impact on society or the environment.

When it comes to religious beliefs, the same principle applies. In addition to that, we live in a secular society. So such religious beliefs should also have little to no influence on general policy of the government.

So I don't care about beliefs that are harmless. The problem is those beliefs wich aren't harmless.

If there is no life after death, and this world is all we have, then there is no place to spend eternity, and all I'm going to do after I die is decompose. If I spend my life believing something's going to happen besides that, and I turn out to be wrong, what's the big deal to the non-believer?

No big deal, as far as I'm concerned.
However, I'll still enter the discussion if it comes up.
But as I said above, if there's no real-world harm caused by those beliefs, then who cares?

I ask because, although the topic is off the table between most of the Christians and atheists in our family, there is one who is actively evangelizing for atheism. We, as Christians, will politely drop the subject if we are asked to. Most of us would just like to get along and be a family, regardless of who believes what, because we see it as an individual choice. I mean, we also have Christians of different denominations, Catholic, Baptist, etc., and nobody's arguing about why your church is wrong and mine is right. We are not going to stop practicing our faith, but we aren't going to keep harping to other people about why they should. This young family member (who we love very much and would like to just hang around with) has been asked to leave the subject alone, but he won't. It seems very important to him that those of us who believe, stop doing that.

There's not much I can say about that if you can't tell me why it is that important to him.

Have you asked him?

So, what difference does it make to an atheist if a Christian continues to believe?

As I said above: that depends on what is actually believed. There's a lot of gradation there. From christian in the sense of "yeah there probably is some higher power of some sorts" to christian in the sense of "biology is a scheme of the devil and atheists eat babies as a sacrifice to demons!!!!!".

Also, don't underestimate how it is to be an atheist in the US. Several studies have indicated that "atheists" are among the least trusted people in the US. Some studies even indicated that a lot of people would rather have a rapist as a neighbour then an atheist. I can't imagine what that is like, but I can understand how it can give you a short fuse concerning that subject.

Probably comparable to how racial minorities see "racists" everywhere.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I agree. I also think that the Christian's belief is a threat to the atheist, as it confronts them with the possibility of being wrong.

That is ridiculous.

Do you loose sleep over the "possibility of being wrong" when confronted with hindu or muslim beliefs?

Off course you don't. We don't either.

 

[Freodin]

The reason being is christianity is about submission, so I feel many question why would you submit yourself to a God partly becuase of Ego.

And I am certain it is your Ego that prevents you from submitting to Allah, Shiva or the Invisible Pink Unicorn.

Have you ever considered that the reason why atheists would not "submit" to your God is because they don't believe that there is a God to submit to?

 

[Dave-W]

This young family member (who we love very much and would like to just hang around with) has been asked to leave the subject alone, but he won't. It seems very important to him that those of us who believe, stop doing that.

So, what difference does it make to an atheist if a Christian continues to believe?

Are you looking at this question from a humanistic world view or from a spiritual warfare world view?

From the humanistic POV, it should make no difference one way or the other. OTOH, if you are taking into consideration the spiritual warfare aspect, then you should realize that the devil thru his minions (demons, fallen angels, etc.) is actively engaged in destroying the faith of Christian believers. He is using this young man in that battle.

Remember, that as an unbeliever, your relative is wide open and spiritually undefended against the wiles of the devil and his minions.