Please help me understand this thinking

[Aryeh]

I certainly will suggest asking, but I'd also like to know the possible reasons others might have for caring so much.

I was agnostic surrounded by "Christians."

Nothing turns off atheists and agnostics like "Christians."

I would imagine they care so much because of history. The Church has a brutal past of torturing and killing unbelievers. So, there has been enmity between believers and nonbelievers for centuries.

Then, there is the issue of very clear biblical contradictions, doctrine and motive. The inability to explain these alleged contradictions (which actually arent) cause more distance.

Then, God forbid the nonbelievers becomes a believer. They have a new pool of rejection and admonishment to receive. Christians aren't nice to Christians. On these forums, you can be called out as a deceiver for following the bible - or asserting an obedience.

Christ is my savior, and He died for my sins and everyone else's so that we could have life. He is resurrected to life now. I believe that, but I wouldn't call myself a Christian. I have had to study apart from the Church for more than a decade - and, ironically things became clearer (just my experience.)

Ultimately, it may be the atheists and agnostics believing they are saving Christians from following a pagan, bloody archaic religion that champions what they see as atrocities. There is definitely enough to believe this.

 

[Freodin]

And I live in America so logically what I'm referring to is Hinduism not being very relevant or cared about in America. Sure in India where 900 million+ of them live supposedly it's the stuff, but for me as a teen in America it wasn't really taken seriously. Maybe still isn't I haven't checked on the religion in a bit

So... religious truth and relevance is based on where you live?

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

So... religious truth and relevance is based on where you live?

Tbh in many areas outside of India you can argue Hinduism is considered yeah. But no you still don't seem to grasp what I'm saying. When you're a teen relevance matters, and because of that I ignored Hinduism is my point, that's not why I ultimately chose to be a Christian epssicully an apostolic one. The pentocostol belief isn't the most popular. That was simply how at a young age I narrowed my search, but that's not how I determined truth. If it was I would have just became catholic, no I actually studied, listened to sermons, had experiences, read etc.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

So... religious truth and relevance is based on where you live?

Basically I had a belief starting out that if the god of that religion really existed he would ensure his name was known In a variety of areas.

 

[Aryeh]

Am I to believe Hinduism is actually "quasi-monotheistic," in that the 100s of gods are actually comparable to angels, and there are three main gods that share commonality in creation and it's preservation (like trinity.)

 

[Freodin]

Tbh in many areas outside of India you can argue Hinduism is considered yeah. But no you still don't seem to grasp what I'm saying. When you're a teen relevance matters, and because of that I ignored Hinduism is my point, that's not why I ultimately chose to be a Christian epssicully an apostolic one. The pentocostol belief isn't the most popular. That was simply how at a young age I narrowed my search, but that's not how I determined truth. If it was I would have just became catholic, no I actually studied, listened to sermons, had experiences, read etc.

Oh, I understand you perfectly. I don't think you understand me though.
I understand why you, as a teen, with a lot of limits on time, resources, enviroment, etc, would have not gone into a complete study of every single religious belief on earth.
I just wonder why you cannot accept that people in different societies might have done the same as you did, and came to different conclusions.

Why do you think that most people in India are Hindus? Because they follow a religion they have experienced for most of their life... or because of "ego"?
Why do you think that atheists in India are mostly concerned with the non-existence of the Hindu deities or atheists in the arab nations are mostly arguing against Allah?
Do you think they don't want to "submit" to Allah or Shiva because of "ego"... or they simply don't believe in the existence of their societal relevant deities?

 

[Freodin]

Am I to believe Hinduism is actually "quasi-monotheistic," in that the 100s of gods are actually comparable to angels, and there are three main gods that share commonality in creation and it's preservation (like trinity.)

Hinduism is complicated. I don't try to represent it correctly... I could never manage to do that.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

Oh, I understand you perfectly. I don't think you understand me though.
I understand why you, as a teen, with a lot of limits on time, resources, enviroment, etc, would have not gone into a complete study of every single religious belief on earth.
I just wonder why you cannot accept that people in different societies might have done the same as you did, and came to different conclusions.

Why do you think that most people in India are Hindus? Because they follow a religion they have experienced for most of their life... or because of "ego"?
Why do you think that atheists in India are mostly concerned with the non-existence of the Hindu deities or atheists in the arab nations are mostly arguing against Allah?
Do you think they don't want to "submit" to Allah or Shiva because of "ego"... or they simply don't believe in the existence of their societal relevant deities?

You say you understand me but again you don't. When I said egos I was talking about non believers in America sure I understand an atheist who is around one religion let's say Islam and is a atheist because he doesn't believe in that but hasn't heard any other religion before. I never was referring to other religious believers either at all just atheist specifically those in America. That's a different situation then with an America atheist. And I accept the ideology that many researched and came to different conclusions, that's why it's important to follow acts 2 and seek the Holy Ghost speaking in tounques. I had 5 or so religions set in mind but because of that experience narrowed it down. I feel many research but they don't seek god or whoever they are believing as god while doing it to see if he's real, if he wil answer.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Thank you for the interesting and educational responses. I'm reading every one, but won't be able to keep track of responding to each one.

So far I'm gathering that many harmful things can be done in the name of religion, which is what a kind-hearted atheist who cares about humanity wants to avoid. Christians see it as their duty to warn non-believers of the consequences of rejecting God; atheists see it as their duty to warn believers of the consequences of wasting their short time here on Earth. Do I have it so far?

I get it that Christians do damage to the cause of Christianity. Absolutely. To draw a parallel, I have said before that Rush Limbaugh has done more to make a political liberal out of me than any liberal ever has. (I am a religious conservative, but a political liberal. You can imagine the inner and outer conflict.)

 

[Freodin]

You say you understand me but again you don't. When I said egos I was talking about non believers in America lol I even said atheist.

I am not an american. I am a non-believer, I am an atheist... and I am not in America, nor have I ever been.

So are non-american atheists and non-believers different?

And I accept the ideology that many researched and came to different conclusions, that's why it's important to follow acts 2 and seek the Holy Ghost speaking in tounques. I had 5 or so religions set in mind but because of that experience narrowed it down. I feel many research but they don't seek god or whoever they are believing as god while doing it to see if he's real, if he will answer. But yeah my ego answer was clearly directed at atheist I even said so

So it seems that, because of your own worldview, you are inable to accept what others sincerely tell you about their worldview.

Well, you are free to do so... but you shouldn't be surprised if these others are not inclined to take you serious then.

 

[Freodin]

So far I'm gathering that many harmful things can be done in the name of religion, which is what a kind-hearted atheist who cares about humanity wants to avoid. Christians see it as their duty to warn non-believers of the consequences of rejecting God; atheists see it as their duty to warn believers of the consequences of wasting their short time here on Earth. Do I have it so far?

Not quite. Most atheists don't care at all if "believers" waste their time. It's their time, and they are free to waste it.
But many atheists care a lot when believers try to install and legislate their ways of "not wasting your time" on others... often in ways that atheists consider harmful, not to the believers themselves, but to the ones the believers want to regulate.

Just recently I saw a post here where a Christian declared his joy about Pres. Trump wanting to make same-sex-marriage illegal again. (Whether he really wants to do that or not is irrelevant.)
I understand that (some/many) Christians disagree with the validity of same-sex-marriage. But instead of then simply not having one, they must prevent everyone else from having one... and the harm they do with that be damned.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

I am not an american. I am a non-believer, I am an atheist... and I am not in America, nor have I ever been.

So are non-american atheists and non-believers different?


So it seems that, because of your own worldview, you are inable to accept what others sincerely tell you about their worldview.

Well, you are free to do so... but you shouldn't be surprised if these others are not inclined to take you serious then.

well... I'm from America so of course I would talk about American atheist as many have done on this post. If I don't know anything about atheist elsewhere why would I try to talk about them? And of course everyone has a view that keeps them from accepting other views it's natural. And I'm not surprised the Bible says woe unto you when al speak well of you. Not everyone is supposed to take you a serioisly

 

[Freodin]

well... I'm from America so of course I would talk about American atheist as many have done on this post. If I don't know anything about atheist elsewhere why would I try to talk about them?

You never specified the nationality or cultural background of the atheists you were talking about. It seems you simply assumed that your view was clear and the only one relevant. But as I tried to show you: it is not.
What you do, what you believe, how you justify your belief... that is your own. No one is trying to take that from you.

So stop trying to do that to others. Please!

And of course everyone has a view that keeps them from accepting other views it's natural. And I'm not surprised the Bible says woe unto you when al speak well of you. Not everyone is supposed to take you a serioisly

I would never think of taking you a serioisly.

Seriously!

 

[Loudmouth]

What I want to know is, why should the atheists care so much whether or not the Christians go on believing? If there is no life after death, and this world is all we have, then there is no place to spend eternity, and all I'm going to do after I die is decompose. If I spend my life believing something's going to happen besides that, and I turn out to be wrong, what's the big deal to the non-believer?

From a personal standpoint, I, as an atheist, have no problem with what you believe or don't believe. In fact, I think that the right to believe what one wants is one of the most important rights we have.

However, we don't live in a bubble. Our culture is affected by what people believe. In a predominately Christian culture there are aspects that atheists find problematic, such as discrimination against homosexuals and anyone who wants to live outside of standard Christian rules. Atheists do believe that this life is all we have which only puts more emphasis on making this life as good as it can be. Seeing the world around you mucked up by a belief in some world that no one can even demonstrate to exist will bother you, if you are an atheist.

There is also the human idiosyncrasy that we want people to agree with us. We want to win a debate. As the old meme goes . . .

If you view atheistic "evangelism" (which is a bit of an oxymoron) through this lens perhaps you can have a better understanding of where the atheists in your family are coming from.

Also, some people are just jerks. Being a jerk certainly isn't limited to any one religion or lack thereof, and no family is devoid of them. There are jerks in my family, and I love them to death. What I would suggest is that you help the jerks in your family understand that what they are doing is hurting other people in the family. Be understanding, and maybe they will be understanding as well.

Good luck, and keep asking for advice if you become frustrated.

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

That's your opinion that there is no God but obviously this discussion post even exist because not an undusted fact that he doesn't exist. You can't say it's conclusive that a God doesn't exist be it's one of the most controversial topics in the world.

I have no reason whatsoever to suspect any 'god' exists, and lots of reasons not to. So for me, it is sufficiently conclusive to the point I was making.

ANd I know you can't submit even if you wanted to it's the nature of a non believer.

Actually, it's because it's logically impossible to 'submit' to imaginary non-entities. Be they named Yahweh or Allah or Brahma or anything else you care to invoke. But by all means, keep pretending.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

You never specified the nationality or cultural background of the atheists you were talking about. It seems you simply assumed that your view was clear and the only one relevant. But as I tried to show you: it is not.
What you do, what you believe, how you justify your belief... that is your own. No one is trying to take that from you.

So stop trying to do that to others. Please!


I would never think of taking you a serioisly.

Seriously!

I shouldn't have to specify which atheist I'm taking about tbh you're the only one that seems to be confused lol. And that's why I posted the scripture not everyone takes christians seriously. And I never stated my view is the only relevant view I'm not sure why you think that. And I wasn't trying to do anything to others you came out of nowhere because you got offended apperently and took it upon yourself to represent Hindus everywhere.

 

[Loudmouth]

I agree. I also think that the Christian's belief is a threat to the atheist, as it confronts them with the possibility of being wrong. If no one believed in God, they would find it easier to rest assured that they are correct.

I have never had an atheist missionary knock on my door. However, I have had people from multiple religions knock on my door trying to convert me.

I think you may be projecting a bit.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

I have no reason whatsoever to suspect any 'god' exists, and lots of reasons not to. So for me, it is sufficiently conclusive to the point I was making.



Actually, it's because it's logically impossible to 'submit' to imaginary non-entities. Be they named Yahweh or Allah or Brahma or anything else you care to invoke. But by all means, keep pretending.

I see but then it is also sufficiently conclusive for myself that he does exist... but I'm still not sure how that would change the fact that others believe he doesn't. The way you relied sounded like you were suggesting because you concluded he doesn't exist then he doesn't exist. And I agree it's impossible to submit to a god you're not close with or you can't detect, that's why for me I took time to get saved and study the Bible. I'm not asking you to do that just sharing my expeince

 

[Loudmouth]

I see but then it is also sufficiently conclusive for myself that he does exist... but I'm still not sure how that would change the fact that others believe he doesn't. The way you relied sounded like you were suggesting because you concluded he doesn't exist then he doesn't exist. And I agree it's impossible to submit to a god you're not close with or you can't detect, that's why for me I took time to get saved and study the Bible. I'm not asking you to do that just sharing my expeince

"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
...Stephen F Roberts

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
...Stephen F Roberts

Cute quote tbh I actually have heard this before just not the specific quote it's derived from I guess, this ideology i mean.