Please help me understand this thinking

[Aryeh]

Hinduism is complicated. I don't try to represent it correctly... I could never manage to do that.

...

Sounds like most religions.

As it were, it seems religion is becoming synonymous with "cult."

 

[Freodin]

I shouldn't have to specify which atheist I'm taking about tbh you're the only one that seems to be confused lol.

If you are not talking about a general group, of course you should have to specify. How else would people know who you are talking about.
If I were to say "christians are idiots", would you assume I meant all Christians, or only the Christians that I personally know?

And that's why I posted the scripture not everyone takes christians seriously.

Oh, I never said that I don't take Christians seriously...

And I never stated my view is the only relevant view I'm not sure why you think that.

Because you constantly refuse to accept the relevancy of other people's views.

And I wasn't trying to do anything to others you came out of nowhere because you got offended apperently and took it upon yourself to represent Hindus everywhere.

If you make general statements about a general group - as you did - I can chime in as a representative of this general group and point out that you are wrong.

 

[Freodin]

...

Sounds like most religions.

True that. In fact, sounds like ALL religions... though each is complicated in its own distinct complicated way.

As it were, it seems religion is becoming synonymous with "cult."

Well, it started out that way. Seems only fair if these two linguistic branches get recombined.

 

[evoeth]

What I want to know is, why should the atheists care so much whether or not the Christians go on believing? If there is no life after death, and this world is all we have, then there is no place to spend eternity, and all I'm going to do after I die is decompose. If I spend my life believing something's going to happen besides that, and I turn out to be wrong, what's the big deal to the non-believer?

The only non-selfish motivation I can think of is that the atheist doesn't want you to waste your very real, one-and-only life here on Earth spending significant amounts of time bending yourself out of shape over morals and ethics that have no other basis except in religions. [Staff edit].

 

[Loudmouth]

Cute quote tbh I actually have heard this before just not the specific quote it's derived from I guess, this ideology i mean.

What would that ideology be?

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

What would that ideology be?

If you don't believe in another god the reason you don't believe in that god is reason not to believe in your own.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

If you are not talking about a general group, of course you should have to specify. How else would people know who you are talking about.
If I were to say "christians are idiots", would you assume I meant all Christians, or only the Christians that I personally know?


Oh, I never said that I don't take Christians seriously...


Because you constantly refuse to accept the relevancy of other people's views.


If you make general statements about a general group - as you did - I can chime in as a representative of this general group and point out that you are wrong.

I made it clear the way I described an atheist... typically you see one like that in a more urban area such as the states but again why argue about that it doesn't matter you misunderstood me I meant America let's leave it alone. And I don't take you seriously at all either great defender of Hindus but that doesn't mean I'm going to just put you down. The fact you even mentioned that just shows a lack of maturity. Also saying I dismiss views of allah being god relevant is like a democrat dismissing the views of a republican. But it's not the same thing as dismissing the views of a 3rd party, Hinduism in America is like a 3rd party not relevant and dismissed. No one knows the 3rd party candidate, no one knows shiva. Tbh maybe this analagy isn't appropriate though since many muslims consider allah simply to be a name for god. Maybe just the republican vs 3rd party candidate could fit

 

[quatona]

i'm aware of that not sure what is your point.

The point: When you ask specifically atheists, don´t be surprised when "no God" is a premise in their response.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

The point: When you ask specifically atheists, don´t be surprised when "no God" is a premise in their response.

That is true. Although everyone is welcome to provide insight and an opinion, I was primarily asking atheists and agnostics, so of course they would be coming from the "no God" perspective. Although I myself believe otherwise, this would not be the place to debate that point. The whole idea here is to understand the other view.

 

[quatona]

That is true. Although everyone is welcome to provide insight and an opinion, I was primarily asking atheists and agnostics, so of course they would be coming from the "no God" perspective. Although I myself believe otherwise, this would not be the place to debate that point. The whole idea here is to understand the other view.

Exactly.

 

[bhsmte]

My question here is aimed primarily at atheists, agnostics, or those who used to be. It's more a matter of family ethics than societal, but I couldn't find any better fit than this forum, because it needs to be somewhere that my target audience has access to. There goes Christian Advice, etc.

In our family we have a mix of Christians and atheists. From a Christian point of view, I can understand the urgency in wishing atheists would come to believe. The Christian thinking is, there is a life beyond this one, there is eternity to deal with, and we need to be ready for what happens after death. We also recognize, however, that we can only make that decision for ourselves, not others. Even our pastor (who used to be an atheist, by the way) says it's not our job to *make* others believe. As long as it's known and understood that we ourselves believe, and we're not hiding it, then we've done our job as far as other people are concerned. We don't have to keep relentlessly hammering at people, and in fact we shouldn't. If we're too repulsive and obnoxious, we can harm the cause instead by driving people away.

What I want to know is, why should the atheists care so much whether or not the Christians go on believing? If there is no life after death, and this world is all we have, then there is no place to spend eternity, and all I'm going to do after I die is decompose. If I spend my life believing something's going to happen besides that, and I turn out to be wrong, what's the big deal to the non-believer?

I ask because, although the topic is off the table between most of the Christians and atheists in our family, there is one who is actively evangelizing for atheism. We, as Christians, will politely drop the subject if we are asked to. Most of us would just like to get along and be a family, regardless of who believes what, because we see it as an individual choice. I mean, we also have Christians of different denominations, Catholic, Baptist, etc., and nobody's arguing about why your church is wrong and mine is right. We are not going to stop practicing our faith, but we aren't going to keep harping to other people about why they should. This young family member (who we love very much and would like to just hang around with) has been asked to leave the subject alone, but he won't. It seems very important to him that those of us who believe, stop doing that.

So, what difference does it make to an atheist if a Christian continues to believe?

I have said this many times on this site and will say it again.

I have no interest in whether a certain Christian continues to believe whatever brand of Christianity they believe in, or whether they give up their belief. I become interested, when certain Christians do any of the following and then I will challenge them:

-misrepresent well evidenced science to support their belief
-negatively judge me because I am a non believer
-they claim their particular belief is the right one and they have zero chance of being wrong and other who disagree, are misled

If any Christian can avoid the above, I leave them alone and respect their personal belief, because for them it may be the absolute best thing for them personally.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

*snipped for space*
If any Christian can avoid the above, I leave them alone and respect their personal belief, because for them it may be the absolute best thing for them personally.

For me, it certainly is. I think it was Adam Savage of Mythbusters who said something like, he's going to take issue with very literal-minded believers (he cited young earth creation as an example) but he's not going to nag at people if believing is the only thought that keeps them going. That's absolutely the case in my situation.

 

[bhsmte]

For me, it certainly is. I think it was Adam Savage of Mythbusters who said something like, he's going to take issue with very literal-minded believers (he cited young earth creation as an example) but he'll certainly leave people alone if believing is the only thought that keeps them going. That's absolutely the case in my situation.

And that is great. I was a Christian for most of my life and I simply got to a point where I went through a thorough historical investigation of the NT and I started to have serious doubts based on the same. This also caused me to revisit my belief and it got to a point where I could no longer reconcile the Christian story with what I view as well evidenced reality.

With that said, everyone is different and I do believe, faith beliefs could be very beneficial for some people and I understand why they believe. It is only the one's who are negatively judging others that don't agree with them and denying well evidenced reality, that the belief may negatively impact them or others.

 

[HitchSlap]

I certainly will suggest asking, but I'd also like to know the possible reasons others might have for caring so much.

The irony of a Christian annoyed with an evangelical atheist is not lost on me.

 

[Ana the Ist]

My question here is aimed primarily at atheists, agnostics, or those who used to be. It's more a matter of family ethics than societal, but I couldn't find any better fit than this forum, because it needs to be somewhere that my target audience has access to. There goes Christian Advice, etc.

In our family we have a mix of Christians and atheists. From a Christian point of view, I can understand the urgency in wishing atheists would come to believe. The Christian thinking is, there is a life beyond this one, there is eternity to deal with, and we need to be ready for what happens after death. We also recognize, however, that we can only make that decision for ourselves, not others. Even our pastor (who used to be an atheist, by the way) says it's not our job to *make* others believe. As long as it's known and understood that we ourselves believe, and we're not hiding it, then we've done our job as far as other people are concerned. We don't have to keep relentlessly hammering at people, and in fact we shouldn't. If we're too repulsive and obnoxious, we can harm the cause instead by driving people away.

What I want to know is, why should the atheists care so much whether or not the Christians go on believing? If there is no life after death, and this world is all we have, then there is no place to spend eternity, and all I'm going to do after I die is decompose. If I spend my life believing something's going to happen besides that, and I turn out to be wrong, what's the big deal to the non-believer?

I ask because, although the topic is off the table between most of the Christians and atheists in our family, there is one who is actively evangelizing for atheism. We, as Christians, will politely drop the subject if we are asked to. Most of us would just like to get along and be a family, regardless of who believes what, because we see it as an individual choice. I mean, we also have Christians of different denominations, Catholic, Baptist, etc., and nobody's arguing about why your church is wrong and mine is right. We are not going to stop practicing our faith, but we aren't going to keep harping to other people about why they should. This young family member (who we love very much and would like to just hang around with) has been asked to leave the subject alone, but he won't. It seems very important to him that those of us who believe, stop doing that.

So, what difference does it make to an atheist if a Christian continues to believe?

It's odd that you seem so focused on the afterlife aspects of your beliefs and not the ways that those beliefs affect your life now.

I imagine that's partially because you don't think that your religious beliefs could possibly have any negative affects on your life....it's all positive, right? Yet I know you're one of the frequent posters in the married couples section...so you've seen what I've seen. Thread after thread of men and women in often horribly abusive marriages because of their religious beliefs about divorce. Thread after thread of abused wives praying and praying for a change in their husbands that won't happen...that doesn't happen.

God doesn't come down and save these women and men, they need to save themselves and get out of that abusive situation, divorce or not.

That's just one example, Love, out of so so many that I could come up with. Personally, I feel that people make better decisions about their lives in general when their views are more closely aligned with the truth...with reality. So in my opinion, I'm doing a tremendous favor to each and every person I can convince to leave their faith behind.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

I ask because, although the topic is off the table between most of the Christians and atheists in our family, there is one who is actively evangelizing for atheism. We, as Christians, will politely drop the subject if we are asked to. Most of us would just like to get along and be a family, regardless of who believes what, because we see it as an individual choice. I mean, we also have Christians of different denominations, Catholic, Baptist, etc., and nobody's arguing about why your church is wrong and mine is right. We are not going to stop practicing our faith, but we aren't going to keep harping to other people about why they should. This young family member (who we love very much and would like to just hang around with) has been asked to leave the subject alone, but he won't. It seems very important to him that those of us who believe, stop doing that.

You mentioned he's young? Probably just going through a bit of a rebellious phase and found that his atheism is a great way to stand out in the family. Not saying I doubt the sincerity in his beliefs but the point of making it known to everyone and not wanting to drop the subject when asked suggests to me he thinks it gets under people's skin.

I was probably most vocal about my disbelief in high school and just after, while it was still kind of new to me to be open about it. Though my family was never big on religion, it was quite shocking to some to hear I just didn't believe and really, never have and I guess on some level that made me feel a small sense of pride, like I figured something out they haven't. I eventually got over myself and mostly keep my beliefs to myself now unless it comes up and someone asks.

So, what difference does it make to an atheist if a Christian continues to believe?

Speaking personally, it makes no difference to me what anyone believes unless what they believe affects public policy and starts to interfere with how I live my life.

 

[Truthfrees]

MOD HAT

Thread closed at OP's request.