Please explain if no one is predestined

Dr. Jack

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Dr. how do you describe a person without the Spirit of God dwelling in them?
That is a good, and honest question.

Every person is made of three parts (trichotomous being); the body, the soul, and the spirit.

1l) The natural man is the body, everything physical. This man can think, he can reason he can learn. But for the purpose of defining the three parts, the natural man (without any aid from the other two parts (soul and spirit)), is limited to the natural, or physical realm.

2) The soul is the eternal inner man that is in essence, the real man, because he is the eternal man.

We must agree that "death" means "separation", and not "annihilation".

Man in his lost (condemned state) is separated from God. Even though his physical body is very much alive, his soul is "dead" ... (separated from God).

The purpose of the sacrifice of Christ was to provide an atonement (bringing one back at one with the law). The Holy Spirit regenerates the "dead" (separated) soul, which brings that "soul" back into fellowship with God ... (that soul is no longer separated ... dead).

3) The spirit is that part of man that God has given to man to allow the physical man, to communicate with the spiritual realm.

Please understand, your question was, "how do you describe a person without the Spirit of God dwelling in them?"

Please note, having the Spirit of God dwelling in them, and existing as a trichotomous being are two separate issues.

Allow me to make a sort of 'chart' to illustrate:

Key:
B = body of man
S = Spirit of God
s = spirit of man
P = living soul of man
p = dead soul of man

Chart:
Lost man appears as:
1) B
2) s
3) p

As you can see, he is still a trichotomous being. He has a spirit in which he can communicate with the spiritual realm. (We see this in Scripture with the witch at Endor.) You will also notice that the man's soul is dead, being in a condemned state, separated from God, (the word which Jesus used to describe the condemned is "lost", being rendered from the Greek ἀπόλλυμι (apollumi)).

Saved man appears as:
1) B
2) s, S
3) P

As you see, two changes have taken place; first, we now have the Holy Spirit indwelling the believer, Who constantly bears witness to the believer. However, that DOESN'T mean the believer is always YIELDING to the HS. The Scripture is clear that people can, and do, grieve the HS. This of course occurs when people yeild to their carnal desires, rather than the indwelling HS. Which was the whole point of Paul writing his first Epistle to the Corinthians.

Secondly, you'll notice the soul of man is now alive; being back in fellowship with God.


How do you describe the person in Adam with the same fallen human nature, that is a sinner by nature?
Another great question!

Adam had (obviously) the same three parts ... body, soul, spirit.

We must first understand Adam's nature pre-fall.

Adam's nature was neutral. God placed Adam in the Garden with such a nature that was neither apt for good, nor for evil. It was also NOT a libertarian type nature. God gave Adam the ability to reason. Adam was placed in an environment that allowed him to be consciously influenced by all that surrounded him; good, and bad.

It was the purpose of God to have Adam choose to follow Him, of Adam's own free will. That doesn't mean a libertarian will, it means following God because you believe Him over all others. (Yes, God knew the outcome, but He did not DECREE the outcome. That is very important.)

Again, Adam was created with a neutral nature, a nature that could, and would choose without any prior sway to good or evil. (Consider the nature of Adam at creation to a perfectly balanced scale.)

(We can cover that more in depth if you wish.)

After the fall:

The nature of Adam, (and of course the nature of his seed), has been altered. We no longer are born with a perfectly balanced nature. The scale that now governs our reasoning ability is always tilted towards evil. (We must also understand that even as born again believers, we still keep our nasty sin nature.)

We are still a trichotomous being. Even with our sin nature, our spirit is in tact ... I think that is what needs to be discussed.

If you want more clarification, It's all good.
 
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Dr. Jack

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I find it ironic that for someone who thinks Calvinism produces automatons, which I take it you believe is wrong, and it is, you believe God dictated every word. Technically speaking, the writers of Scripture are never referred to as inspired. Paul is referring to their writings and he says that they are God breathed. Paul was not inspired. The epistle to the Romans is inspired, as are the letters to the Corinthians, the Galatians, the Ephesians, and so on. Some writers of Scripture wrote only one brief book or letter and never wrote another "inspired" thing in their entire lives.

It is not the men who wrote Scripture that are inspired, it is the message.
The difference is quite simple.

If (as Calvinism says) God decreed all events, the actions of people are predetermined and therefore not of the free will of the people.

However, if, and when a person willfully chooses to give God control of what they do, that is an entirely different situation.

Paul and the Prophets were willingly in submission to God when writing the Scriptures.

I, in my own life many times have voluntarily surrendered my will to God. That is in no way similar to making decisions by the decree of God.
 
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Hammster

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Here is the biblical answer.

Scripture refers to people as lost/found. Sheep/goats. Dead/alive. Redeemed/(by implication)unredeemed. Regenerate/(by implication)unregenerate. Slaves/free. In the flesh/in the Spirit. Natural/spiritual.

Etc.
 
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Dr. Jack

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Here is the biblical answer.

Scripture refers to people as lost/found. Sheep/goats. Dead/alive. Redeemed/(by implication)unredeemed. Regenerate/(by implication)unregenerate. Slaves/free. In the flesh/in the Spirit. Natural/spiritual.

Etc.
Please show me an example of the use of the word "regenerate" in Scripture.

So when Paul spoke in Romans ...

7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. Romans

Was Paul saying he was lost.

Throwing in natural and spiritual at the end doesn't mean that is what the words mean. (Especially when regeneration speaks of the soul, and the word "natural" speaks of the physical body.
 
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Hammster

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Please show me an example of the use of the word "regenerate" in Scripture.

So when Paul spoke in Romans ...

7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. Romans

Was Paul saying he was lost.

Throwing in natural and spiritual at the end doesn't mean that is what the words mean. (Especially when regeneration speaks of the soul, and the word "natural" speaks of the physical body.
John 3. Titus 3. 1 John 5.
 
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Dr. Jack

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John 3. Titus 3. 1 John 5.
Let's take a look!

John 3 uses the English word "born".

3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. John

The English "born" is rendered from the Greek γεννάω (the actual inflicted word is γεννηθη), which literally means to procreate [be born].

The same is the case with the use of the word "born" in 1 John 5.

However, in Titus 3:5 we see the English word "regeneration".

3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Titus (KJ)

The English "regeneration" is rendered from the Greek παλιγγενεσία paliggenesia, which is the same as γεννάω with the prefix παλι (from παλιν) affixed to it. Meaning "born again". However, what we also see in Titus 3:5 is that salvation is "by" regeneration. Hence, the moment we are "regenerated" we are born again, which IS salvation.

Since this is the case, regeneration cannot proceed faith. Once a person's soul is made "alive", it is obvious that the condemnation that had been upon the lost soul, has been lifted. Since the condemnation has been lifted at the moment of the new birth, where does that leave a purpose for faith in the salvation process?

Regeneration is not subject in 1 Corinthians 2; being carnal while being saved is.

And so the question remains, if God wanted to refer to regeneration in 1 Corinthians 2, why didn't he use the Greek words that could be rendered in English to say just that?

Could it be that that wasn't the context (as I have said all along)?
 
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Hammster

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Let's take a look!

John 3 uses the English word "born".

3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. John

The English "born" is rendered from the Greek γεννάω (the actual inflicted word is γεννηθη), which literally means to procreate [be born].

The same is the case with the use of the word "born" in 1 John 5.

However, in Titus 3:5 we see the English word "regeneration".

3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Titus (KJ)

The English "regeneration" is rendered from the Greek παλιγγενεσία paliggenesia, which is the same as γεννάω with the prefix παλι (from παλιν) affixed to it. Meaning "born again". However, what we also see in Titus 3:5 is that salvation is "by" regeneration. Hence, the moment we are "regenerated" we are born again, which IS salvation.

Since this is the case, regeneration cannot proceed faith. Once a person's soul is made "alive", it is obvious that the condemnation that had been upon the lost soul, has been lifted. Since the condemnation has been lifted at the moment of the new birth, where does that leave a purpose for faith in the salvation process?

Regeneration is not subject in 1 Corinthians 2; being carnal while being saved is.

And so the question remains, if God wanted to refer to regeneration in 1 Corinthians 2, why didn't he use the Greek words that could be rendered in English to say just that?

Could it be that that wasn't the context (as I have said all along)?
Once again, the same meaning is conveyed.

I think I’m finished beating my head against the wall with you.

Enjoy your Lord’s day.
 
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That is a good, and honest question.

Every person is made of three parts (trichotomous being); the body, the soul, and the spirit.

1l) The natural man is the body, everything physical. This man can think, he can reason he can learn. But for the purpose of defining the three parts, the natural man (without any aid from the other two parts (soul and spirit)), is limited to the natural, or physical realm.

2) The soul is the eternal inner man that is in essence, the real man, because he is the eternal man.

We must agree that "death" means "separation", and not "annihilation".

Man in his lost (condemned state) is separated from God. Even though his physical body is very much alive, his soul is "dead" ... (separated from God).

The purpose of the sacrifice of Christ was to provide an atonement (bringing one back at one with the law). The Holy Spirit regenerates the "dead" (separated) soul, which brings that "soul" back into fellowship with God ... (that soul is no longer separated ... dead).

3) The spirit is that part of man that God has given to man to allow the physical man, to communicate with the spiritual realm.

Please understand, your question was, "how do you describe a person without the Spirit of God dwelling in them?"

Please note, having the Spirit of God dwelling in them, and existing as a trichotomous being are two separate issues.

Allow me to make a sort of 'chart' to illustrate:

Key:
B = body of man
S = Spirit of God
s = spirit of man
P = living soul of man
p = dead soul of man

Chart:
Lost man appears as:
1) B
2) s
3) p

As you can see, he is still a trichotomous being. He has a spirit in which he can communicate with the spiritual realm. (We see this in Scripture with the witch at Endor.) You will also notice that the man's soul is dead, being in a condemned state, separated from God, (the word which Jesus used to describe the condemned is "lost", being rendered from the Greek ἀπόλλυμι (apollumi)).

Saved man appears as:
1) B
2) s, S
3) P

As you see, two changes have taken place; first, we now have the Holy Spirit indwelling the believer, Who constantly bears witness to the believer. However, that DOESN'T mean the believer is always YIELDING to the HS. The Scripture is clear that people can, and do, grieve the HS. This of course occurs when people yeild to their carnal desires, rather than the indwelling HS. Which was the whole point of Paul writing his first Epistle to the Corinthians.

Secondly, you'll notice the soul of man is now alive; being back in fellowship with God.



Another great question!

Adam had (obviously) the same three parts ... body, soul, spirit.

We must first understand Adam's nature pre-fall.

Adam's nature was neutral. God placed Adam in the Garden with such a nature that was neither apt for good, nor for evil. It was also NOT a libertarian type nature. God gave Adam the ability to reason. Adam was placed in an environment that allowed him to be consciously influenced by all that surrounded him; good, and bad.

It was the purpose of God to have Adam choose to follow Him, of Adam's own free will. That doesn't mean a libertarian will, it means following God because you believe Him over all others. (Yes, God knew the outcome, but He did not DECREE the outcome. That is very important.)

Again, Adam was created with a neutral nature, a nature that could, and would choose without any prior sway to good or evil. (Consider the nature of Adam at creation to a perfectly balanced scale.)

(We can cover that more in depth if you wish.)

After the fall:

The nature of Adam, (and of course the nature of his seed), has been altered. We no longer are born with a perfectly balanced nature. The scale that now governs our reasoning ability is always tilted towards evil. (We must also understand that even as born again believers, we still keep our nasty sin nature.)

We are still a trichotomous being. Even with our sin nature, our spirit is in tact ... I think that is what needs to be discussed.

If you want more clarification, It's all good.

Thank you Dr for the well thought out response, of course we're not in complete agreement, but it would probably require a great deal of time and effort I do not have atm to respond. Currently about to start up a debate project with a friend, expect it will suck up most of my time, but thank you for all the time and effort put into your responses and sorry if I've offended, it's okay to agree to disagree (not that I totally disagree, we just tend to focus more on disagreements). God bless.
 
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Dr. Jack

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Once again, the same meaning is conveyed.

I think I’m finished beating my head against the wall with you.

Enjoy your Lord’s day.
The point is, neither the Greek, nor the English support your application to unregenerate, and regenerate in 1 Corinthians 2.
 
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Dr. Jack

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Thank you Dr for the well thought out response, of course we're not in complete agreement, but it would probably require a great deal of time and effort I do not have atm to respond. Currently about to start up a debate project with a friend, expect it will suck up most of my time, but thank you for all the time and effort put into your responses and sorry if I've offended, it's okay to agree to disagree (not that I totally disagree, we just tend to focus more on disagreements). God bless.
Thank you. Indeed, we do tend to focus on disagreements more than agreements.

I am not offended by professional conversation, (and I've learned along the path of life to allow unprofessional behavior to not affect my behavior or attitude ... most of the time ... (I am human ... [I'll just blame that "sin nature").

God bless ... may He be honored in your debate.
 
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sungaunga

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If (as Calvinism says) God decreed all events, the actions of people are predetermined and therefore not of the free will of the people.

Scripture teaches God has ordained all things that come to pass. All things. Naturally, that would include the fall of man and the crucifixion of Jesus. Unless you're holding a position that God did not decree the fall and evil is something completely outside His sovereign control...

Eph 1:11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will

free will of the people

Scripture never teaches free will. Unless you believe your decisions have no cause or motivation whatsoever. Then it's more along the lines of insanity. The Bible describes our human condition as slaves to our sinful will. Both Jesus and Paul use that terminology. Jesus did not come to affirm a free will, he came to set the will free.

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

It is not that sometimes they can choose God, or occasionally they can please God. Certainly, they have a will but only in the sense that they can choose according to their strongest desires, which in the unregenerate state is to only choose their fleshy desires.

Romans 8:7-8 because the outlook of the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to the law of God, nor is it able to do so. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Paul and the Prophets were willingly in submission to God when writing the Scriptures.

Yep.
 
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Dr. Jack

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Scripture teaches God has ordained all things that come to pass. All things.
The text you provide (Eph 1:11) does not state that God has "ordained" all things. It does state that God has a "purpose" and that He "works all things according to the counsel of his will". "Working all things" is NOT "ordaining" all things.

God worked in all the events of the narrative of Jonah, but God NEVER ordains rebellion against Himself.

If you believe that God controls the will of man (by His decree), then God is also the author of all that man does.

The meaning of Eph 1:11 is that God has predestined those "in Christ" to "obtained an inheritance", and the He will work in all the events of their lives for that "purpose".

Naturally, that would include the fall of man and the crucifixion of Jesus. Unless you're holding a position that God did not decree the fall and evil is something completely outside His sovereign control...
No, God didn't ordain Adam to fall. Foreknowledge is NOT equivalent to foreordained.

You have just presented a false dichotomy. It is NOT a matter of "A" or "B". Calvinism teaches this to avoid dealing with other possibilities.

God in His omniscience KNEW prior to the creation that Adam would fall, and also knew He would provide Himself as the substitutionary atonement for the sins of mankind.

But that doesn't mean God ordained the fall. If you want to discuss this subject I welcome a substantive discussion.


Scripture never teaches free will.
Let's make this clear now ... I don't subscribe to libertarian freewill. When I use the phrase "free will", I am simply stating that the will of the individual has not been 'predetermined' by the decree of God.


Unless you believe your decisions have no cause or motivation whatsoever. Then it's more along the lines of insanity.
Another false dichotomy. People rarely make truly 'random' choices. Their is nearly always some inner and outward influence that provides some "purpose" to our decisions. To say otherwise is pure ignorance.

The Bible describes our human condition as slaves to our sinful will. Both Jesus and Paul use that terminology. Jesus did not come to affirm a free will, he came to set the will free.
I'm going to assume you subscribe to man being a dichotomous being. Hence, you believe that man is totally depraved, having only the ability of his natural, physical body to serve in his desires. That is another place you are incorrect.
Again, I welcome a meaningful discussion.

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.


This is one of my favorite verses to discuss. Before I begin however, let me preface my position.

Jesus was the one Person on planet earth that knew everything He would ever say, prior to saying his first word as the God-man.

In other words, everything Jesus ever said was completely consistent with everything else Jesus ever said. Jesus never made a single statement that even slightly contradicted anything else He ever said.

What does this mean? It means that anything, and everything that Jesus said pertaining to any particular subject must be taken into account when discussing that given subject. (Not simply a single verse spoken on one occasion.)

I will now present a very short version of a much longer, and detailed write I have done concerning this text.

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.

This is a favorite text used by Calvinists to support their doctrine of "Unconditional Election". The main jest of the verse is to suggest that no one can come to Jesus unless the Father "draws" him, AND that the Father only draws the elect. But is this really Scriptural?

No, it is not.

Remember, everything Jesus says pertaining to being "drawn" must be considered.

12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.12:33 This he said, signifying what death he should die. John

Jesus now says that by being "lifted up" He would draw all men to Himself. The HS then has John make an additional statement for clarification.
"This he said, signifying what death he should die."

Hence, being "lifted up" is directly linked to "drawing" people to Christ.

Then we must remember the earlier discussion Jesus had with Nicodemus, in John 3.

Jesus was talking to Nicodemus about his need to be "born again" (saved). Nicodemus had no idea what Jesus was talking about. To get Nicodemus to think in the proper way ( concerning how to be born again), Jesus referred Nicodemus back to a very familiar story in Numbers 21.

3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. John

The key element here was quite simple ...

In the wilderness, provision was made by God for all of Israel to be saved from dying at least physically after being bitten by fiery serpents. This provision was NOT for only an 'elected' few, but rather, for "whosoever".

Nicodemus was taught, and I'm quite certain did teach that salvation was through keeping the OT Law. Nothing was farther from the truth. Jesus wanted Nicodemus to understand that he needed to stop trusting in his own righteousnes, and solely trust in the provision God made for his salvation.

Just as provision was made for whosoever in the wilderness (even though that provision was only effective for those who by faith in God "looked"); by being "lifted up" like the serpent, Jesus would also be the provision for "whosoever" (drawing all people to Himself ... the invitation to come), but would only be effectual to those who by faith accept that invitation.

Hence, all the verses work in harmony providing a "whosoever" invitation, yet only being effectual to those who come, by faith.


It is not that sometimes they can choose God, or occasionally they can please God. Certainly, they have a will but only in the sense that they can choose according to their strongest desires, which in the unregenerate state is to only choose their fleshy desires.
Can you provide a text which uses the term "unregenerate state"?


Romans 8:7-8
because the outlook of the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to the law of God, nor is it able to do so. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.


I find this sort of humorous (sorry, I must be truthful). Usually, People try to say that Romans 7 is about man being "lost", while Romans 8 is about man being saved (in light of Romans 8:1 and the context of chapter 7) ... Even though all of this is false.

Romans 8:7-8 is referring to the battle of the desires of the flesh vs the desires of the spirit, WHILE BEING SAVED just like in chapter 7.

1 Corinthians is a prime example of such a situation. They were saved, yet, they were extremely carnal! Paul is very direct in telling them just that. Just because the HS abides in thevl believer, doesn't mean that believer is "spiritual"; the Corinthians were in the flesh, far more than they were in the Spirit.

Let's be clear, being "in the Spirit" means being in subjection or submission to the HS; not having the HS abiding in you. Being "in the flesh" means following the desires of the physical flesh.
 
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Dr. Jack

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Faith is a gift of God to those who have been elected for salvation before the foundation of the world.
I disagree.

2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians

Salvation is the "it" spoken of in verse 8; not the "faith".

11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews

We here have the words, "Now faith is". The subject in this text is "faith"; while the state of being verb "is" shows the action of "faith".

The following words will therefore describe the 'state of being' attributed to the subject, "faith".

"the substance" What is substance?

According to the Merriam Webster's Dictionary 'subtance' means:

Full Definition
"1 a : essential nature : essence b : a fundamental or characteristic part or quality c Christian Science : god
2 a : ultimate reality that underlies all outward manifestations and change b : practical importance : meaning, usefulness
3 a : physical material from whichsomething is made or which has discreteexistence b : matter of particular or definitechemical constitution c : something (such as drugs or alcoholicbeverages) deemed harmful and usuallysubject to legal restriction
4 : material possessions : property

The English word "substance" is rendered from the Greek ὑπόστασις which according to Strongs means:

Definition:
From a compound of G5259 and G2476; a setting under (support) that is (figuratively) concretely essence or abstractly assurance (objectively or subjectively): - confidence confident person substance. KJV Usage: confidence (2x), confident (1x), person (1x), substance (1x).

G5259 LSJ Gloss: ὑπό from under, by, c. gen. under, c. dat., towards c. acc.
Dodson:ὑπόby, under, about.
Strong's:ὑπόunder, i.e. (with the genitive case) of place (beneath), or with verbs (the agency or means, through); (with the accusative case) of place (whither (underneath) or where (below) or time (when (at))
LSJ Gloss:ἵστημιto make to stand
Dodson:ἵστημιI cause to stand, standtrans: (a) I make to stand, place, set up, establish, appoint; mid: I place myself, stand, (b) I set in balance, weigh; intrans: (c) I stand, stand by, stand still; met: I stand ready, stand firm, am steadfast.
Strong's:ἵστημιto stand (transitively or intransitively), used in various applications (literally or figuratively)
Derivation: a prolonged form of a primary στάω (of the same meaning, and used for it in certain tenses);
Let's put these definitions together:
1)ultimate reality that underlies all outward manifestations and change
2) under
3) cause to stand

Conclusion: The word "substance" means, the ultimate reality that underlies, and causes what is dependent upon it to stand.

What then is this "substance"?

1) 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Romans

This "substance" is the universe, and everything in it.
The use of the word "creation" shows that God uses the very universe which He created to show mankind Who, and What He is. The Creator God.

2) 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Timothy
1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 2 Peter

God has given us the Scriptures to give testimony of Himself.

3) 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 15:27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning. John
16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. John
God has given us His Holy Spirit to bear witness to us.

4) 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 2 Peter
5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 1 John

As believers in Christ; God calls us to be witnesses of His greatness. Hence, the "substance" in relation to faith, is the reality of Who Christ is, and it is Who He is that undergirds the believers, and allows them to stand.

"hoped for"

The Merriam Webster defines "hope" as: 1 : to cherish a desire with anticipation :to want something to happen or be true 2 archaic : trust transitive verb 1 : to desire with expectation of obtainment or fulfillment 2 : to expect with confidence : trust

The English word "hope" is rendered from the Greek ἐλπίς which according to Strongs means:

Definition:
From ἔλπω elpō which is a primary word (to anticipate usually with pleasure); expectation (abstract or concrete) or confidence: - faith hope.

Hence, the Biblical word "hope" does not have the meaning of 'wishful thinking' (Oh I 'hope' he wins the race); but rather, an anticipation, or expectation that is full of confidence because of Who it is (God) that is making the promises to us.

Therefore, the first part of what "faith" is can be defined as a confident expectation of God to fulfill His promises.

The second part of the definition of "faith", (separated by a comma [,]) is: "the evidence of things not seen" Merriam Webster defines "evidence" as:

"1 a : an outward sign : indication b : something that furnishes proof :testimony; specifically : something legallysubmitted to a tribunal to ascertain the truth of a matter
2 : one who bears witness; especially :one who voluntarily confesses a crimeand testifies for the prosecution againsthis accomplices"

The English word "evidence" is rendered from the Greek ἔλεγχος meaning:

"Definition: From G1651; proof conviction: - evidence reproof."

Strongs G1651 is defined as: "ἐλέγχω to confute, admonish"

ελεγχω is the Greek word meaning "I admonish", which is then inflected to mean "proof". A person is admonished when proof (evidence) is provided showing correction is needed.

All the prior things listed above (the creation, the Scriptures, the Holy Spirit, and the witness of men) are evidence that God has already fulfilled all past promises; and are therefore further evidence of ... "things not seen"

This can be applied two different ways: 1) That which cannot be seen with the physical eye. The Godhead, as shown above in Romans 1:18-21; and 2) Those future things, which are yet to be seen.

That which we can see, the creation, Scripture, the work of the Holy Spirit, and the testimony of believers; is God's 'credit report' as to His faithfulness. Hence, God does not expect us to blindly follow Him; rather, He EXPECTS us to follow Him BECAUSE He has given us EVIDENCE that He is always faithful to keep His Word!

This is precisely why David said in Psalm 138:2 "I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name."

My father often told me (while growing up), "A man's word is his bond". If a man is found to be a liar, he looses all credibility. God magnifies His Word above all His name because without His Word (always being truthful), His name has no value; He is then found to be unfaithful.

Hence, "faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen".

Again, "faith" therefore is not a gift, it is the required response to such a preponderance of evidence showing who God is.

Men in the advertising industry place billboards along our roadways knowing that they will be seen. (It would take a blind man, NOT to see them.) Thus it is with the manifold witness of God ... it is so clear, God says in Roman's 1, "they are without excuse".
 
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Knee V

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That will likely lead to the next question: "Why are different people different types of soil?"

The answer is that we have all chosen to be whatever type of soil we are. The grace to be good and fertile soil is always there.
 
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Rescued One

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That will likely lead to the next question: "Why are different people different types of soil?"

The answer is that we have all chosen to be whatever type of soil we are. The grace to be good and fertile soil is always there.

That's what Arminius believed.
 
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sungaunga

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No, God didn't ordain Adam to fall

Of course He did. God did not coerce Adam to commit sin and fall, but he certainly ordained (allowed) it. You might not agree, but If you don't believe that, fundamentally, bottomline, you're an atheist. God has foreordained whatsoever comes to pass is not a statement that is unique to Calvinism. It doesn't distinguish the Reformed teachings from other teachings. It doesn't even distinguish Christians from Jews or from Muslims. This statement here distinguishes theists from atheists.

Don't you see that if there's anything that happens in this world outside the foreordination of God, that if there's no sense in which God is ordaining whatsoever comes to pass, then at whatever point something happens outside the foreordination of God it is therefore happening outside the sovereignty of God. God is sovereign and has left nothing up to chance. If chance were to exist then God would not be sovereign and thus, God would not be God.

The meaning of Eph 1:11 is that God has predestined those "in Christ" to "obtained an inheritance", and the He will work in all the events of their lives for that "purpose".

Eph 1:11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will

"who works all things according to the council of His will," is a description of the type of God that predestines. What you're doing is putting a limitation to the word, all, without merit, theologically or contextually.

John Piper - This "all things" includes the fall of sparrows (Matthew 10:29), the rolling of dice (Proverbs 16:33), the slaughter of his people (Psalm 44:11), the decisions of kings (Proverbs 21:1), the failing of sight (Exodus 4:11), the sickness of children (2 Samuel 12:15), the loss and gain of money (1 Samuel 2:7), the suffering of saints (1 Peter 4:19), the completion of travel plans (James 4:15), the persecution of Christians (Hebrews 12:4-7), the repentance of souls (2 Timothy 2:25), the gift of faith (Philippians 1:29), the pursuit of holiness (Philippians 3:12-13), the growth of believers (Hebrews 6:3), the giving of life and the taking in death (1 Samuel 2:6), and the crucifixion of his Son (Acts 4:27-28).
 
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RDKirk

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Here is a point about predestination that settled it for me big time!
Here is the Scripture that turned the lights on for me:
“Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the elect. . . according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ” (1 Peter 1:1,2)

This also turned me around from my belief that God may not know every detail of the future (this is a complete reversal of my previous posts where I maintained that God does not know the future because it doesn't exist yet).

Now, If God knows the future, He knows beforehand who is going to choose for Christ and who is going to reject Him. This is where many get predestination and election wrong. They mistakenly say that God predestines and elects people to salvation and hardens others before they choose for or against Christ! That is not right at all!

When the gospel is presented and preached, people choose Christ or reject Him. At the time the gospel is preached, the invitation is open to all who hear it. When a person chooses to receive Christ, God has known that he or she would, from the foundation of the world. He also knows who rejects Christ. Therefore, (and this is the revelation that settled it for me) God elects for salvation those who have chosen Christ, after they have made the choice, not before.

Therefore, He hardens the hearts of those who reject Christ after they have made their choice.

However:

"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.
....
He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them."
-- John 6

So God has worked "enablement" into a person before he chooses whether or not to accept Christ, and if God has not already done that "enablement," then the person cannot choose Christ.

Now, I don't know how much of a conclusion can be drawn from that, or that one can be drawn as far as Reformed Theology attempts to draw it.

I see the purpose of those statements as an encouragement to evangelists that there will be people who will respond to the gospel, and an encouragement to those who have accepted Christ that God's favor has been planned for them from eternity past, reliable and not fickle.
 
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