Planet Fitness sees $400 MILLION wiped off value just five days after banning member who exposed 'trans woman' shaving in the female locker room

[RocksInMyHead]

Should the bar be set at attempted assaults?

If we're talking about whether or not a policy represents a real danger to people, yes. If the policy has been in place for ten years and the alleged dangers of said policy have not materialized, then perhaps those dangers do not apply.

Perhaps for the time being but the push against anti-LGBTQ and transphobia is pretty strong.

That's a separate issue (or at least, it could be). The problem is that the people pushing to keep trans people out of sports and locker rooms seem to be incapable of separating their personal distaste for the individuals involved from any arguments against the policies.

There have been newsworthy creeps who managed to go undetected for years. The news stories usually often have a line about how family and friends where shocked to find out he was a creep.

That generally applies to people who are caught acting like creeps on the internet or in private spaces, abusing positions of authority. It's much harder to be a secret creep in a public locker room or a bathroom as a customer of a business.

 

[Bradskii]

I would've simply alerted the staff and let them handle it.

They effectively did. They had rules for situations like this. The rules were followed. Except by one woman. And she had her membership cancelled.

It seems like your solution worked. So there's no need for complaint.

...and I don't think anyone's suggesting that every problem has a catch-all solution.

Are you kidding me? Seriously? How many posts have we seen that actually say 'Men shouldn't be allowed in women's changing rooms' or variations on that theme. Except of course that they mean transgender women. So when someone applies to join the gym do they have to have a genital inspection? Well, of course not. Gee, they don't mean that. That's just being silly.

Well you tell me what they mean and then give me a one size fits all solution.

 

[Bradskii]

How can it be determined if the dude really identifies as female or is just a creep?

Now this is a serious question, so please give it some thought. And I'd like an answer. If you are in the men's changing room then how would one know that you really identify as a man and aren't some creep?

 

[Ceallaigh]

Now this is a serious question, so please give it some thought. And I'd like an answer. If you are in the men's changing room then how would one know that you really identify as a man and aren't some creep?

You mean like this?:

 

[Ceallaigh]

Now this is a serious question, so please give it some thought. And I'd like an answer. If you are in the men's changing room then how would one know that you really identify as a man and aren't some creep?

Other than me being obviously creepy, one probably wouldn't know.

 

[Bradskii]

Other than me being obviously creepy, one probably wouldn't know.

So, if nobody says 'hey, that person looks like a woman' then you're ok? So if you look like man and don't act like a creep then you're good to go? Well, I guess that applies to everyone else as well.

So that will apply in the other changing room. If a woman went in there and no-one said ''hey, that person looks like a man' then she's ok. As long as she doesn't act like a creep then she's good to go as well.

And I presume that when you joined the gym you put down your gender as male. As would everyone else put down theirs.

Hey, now I guess we have the start of a protocol for dealing with transgender people. As prompted by your answer. If someone signs on to the gym and nominates their gender then they use the changing room applicable to that gender. Now if, in someone's opinion, that person is in a changing room that doesn't match what they personally perceive to be that person's gender and is acting in a creepy manner then a word with staff would be applicable.

Sounds reasonable to me. You didn't specify what 'creepy' meant but that vague term will do for now. Perhaps we could look to define that for the new rule. Maybe 'Act in a way that causes a degree of unease'? Like ogling men's tackle or peeking under cubicle doors perhaps? Feel free to add any suggestions.

 

[Ceallaigh]

So, if nobody says 'hey, that person looks like a woman' then you're ok? So if you look like man and don't act like a creep then you're good to go? Well, I guess that applies to everyone else as well.

So that will apply in the other changing room. If a woman went in there and no-one said ''hey, that person looks like a man' then she's ok. As long as she doesn't act like a creep then she's good to go as well.

And I presume that when you joined the gym you put down your gender as male. As would everyone else put down theirs.

Hey, now I guess we have the start of a protocol for dealing with transgender people. As prompted by your answer. If someone signs on to the gym and nominates their gender then they use the changing room applicable to that gender. Now if, in someone's opinion, that person is in a changing room that doesn't match what they personally perceive to be that person's gender and is acting in a creepy manner then a word with staff would be applicable.

Sounds reasonable to me. You didn't specify what 'creepy' meant but that vague term will do for now. Perhaps we could look to define that for the new rule. Maybe 'Act in a way that causes a degree of unease'? Like ogling men's tackle or peeking under cubicle doors perhaps? Feel free to add any suggestions.

I didn't come up with the creep scenario @RocksInMyHead did. Now first of all on the application is the facility asking me what my sex is or what my gender is? If it's my sex, then I put down male. If it's my gender, it's any one of numerous genders I could be identifying as that day. Could be genderflux, genderfluid, agender, pangender, nonbinary etc. So before continuing, are we going by sex or gender?

 

[Ceallaigh]

If we're talking about whether or not a policy represents a real danger to people, yes. If the policy has been in place for ten years and the alleged dangers of said policy have not materialized, then perhaps those dangers do not apply.

More like a potential danger. Are we talking about the policy of a particular business or organization like a nudist camp? Or an overall rule regarding women's restrooms, locker rooms, showers and spas everywhere? The latter is what I focusing on.

That's a separate issue (or at least, it could be). The problem is that the people pushing to keep trans people out of sports and locker rooms seem to be incapable of separating their personal distaste for the individuals involved from any arguments against the policies.

Then that's not a separate issue. It's going with the conclusion that the main or only real factor is being anti-LGBTQ / transphobic in not wanting men in women's spaces.

That generally applies to people who are caught acting like creeps on the internet or in private spaces, abusing positions of authority. It's much harder to be a secret creep in a public locker room or a bathroom as a customer of a business.

I disagree. There have been lots of irl sexual predators that went undetected by most everyone irl. And a person doesn't have to assault someone to be a predator. Lots of sexual predators are voyeurs. And I think the odds of a man in a women's locker room being a voyeur are pretty likely. Which is why women don't want men in their restrooms, locker rooms, showers and spas. While the actual sexual assault aspect might be on the lower side, the voyeur aspect is on the high side.

 

[Bradskii]

I didn't come up with the creep scenario @RocksInMyHead did. Now first of all on the application is the facility asking me what my sex is or what my gender is? If it's my sex, then I put down male. If it's my gender, it's any one of numerous genders I could be identifying as that day. Could be genderflux, genderfluid, agender, pangender, nonbinary etc. So before continuing, are we going by sex or gender?

You used creep. We can forget it if you like.

The gym only offers two genders as there are only 2 changing rooms. Male or female. Which does one identify with (yours will be male). If there's a problem that someone has with membership on that basis then that's a problem that we aren't interested in. But one chooses one or the other. If in doubt, ask at the front desk. That's part of the rules we are developing. If you don't like them, go elsewhere.

As you don't want to include 'creepiness' in the rules then we leave it out.

So, I think we're done. Unless you have anything to add..?

 

[Bradskii]

And I think the odds of a man in a women's locker room being a voyeur are pretty likely. Which is why women don't want men in their restrooms, locker rooms, showers and spas. While the actual sexual assault aspect might be on the lower side, the voyeur aspect is on the high side.

I thought you didn't want creepy behaviour included?

But maybe we should include it in the rules. If you are caught perving men's tackle or women's bits 'n' pieces then you are persona non grata. Whatever gender you are. Whichever changing room you are in.

Yeah?

 

[Ceallaigh]

I thought you didn't want creepy behaviour included?

I just said I'm not the one who brought it up. So if you're going to pounce on someone over it being brought into the conversation, pounce on the one who brought it.

But maybe we should include it in the rules. If you are caught perving men's tackle or women's bits 'n' pieces then you are persona non grata. Whatever gender you are. Whichever changing room you are in.

Yeah?

So complicated foggy rules instead of the simple longstanding rule of men don't belong in women's locker rooms. How is the new complicated version preferable? Namely how is it preferable to women and girls?

 

[Bradskii]

I just said I'm not the one who brought it up. So if you're going to pounce on someone over it being brought into the conversation, pounce on the one who brought it.

So complicated foggy rules instead of the simple longstanding rule of men don't belong in women's locker rooms. How is the new complicated version preferable? Namely how is it preferable to women and girls?

Then we'll won't use it in the rules.

Are we done?

 

[Ceallaigh]

You used creep. We can forget it if you like.

The gym only offers two genders as there are only 2 changing rooms. Male or female. Which does one identify with (yours will be male). If there's a problem that someone has with membership on that basis then that's a problem that we aren't interested in. But one chooses one or the other. If in doubt, ask at the front desk. That's part of the rules we are developing. If you don't like them, go elsewhere.

As you don't want to include 'creepiness' in the rules then we leave it out.

So, I think we're done. Unless you have anything to add..?

I'm talking about a universal rule, as opposed to a separate rule like a nudist camp might have. What do you think the universal rule should be? The longstanding straightforward rule that men aren't allowed in women's spaces? Or a rule or set of rules to replace it? Or just dumping that rule altogether?

 

[Ceallaigh]

Then we'll won't use it in the rules.

Are we done?

Not really since I'm going by a solid longstanding straightforward rule we both know as men don't belong in women's spaces period. Whereas what you're proposing is a lot more vauge.

 

[o_mlly]

As I understand the trans ideologues, being transgender does not mean being homosexual, although it may.

So, the "transgender" forms at the gym would specify "trans and homo" for access to the locker room of choice, "trans and hetero" for "stay in your own lane" locker room, "trans and bi" for access to either locker room, "non-trans but homo" ....

Oh, and since gender is fluid, large pads of "Change Order" forms at both locker rooms.

 

[Nagomirov]

I'm from Russia. We are looking at the whole situation taking place in Europe and the USA. It is very sad that a minority of abnormal people dictate their own rules to the majority. Your films come to us and sometimes it is impossible to watch them, it is not interesting, because they have become the propaganda of the modern agenda: genders, LGBT, blacks began to be inserted everywhere, sometimes in roles that do not suit them at all.

 

[Ceallaigh]

I'm from Russia. We are looking at the whole situation taking place in Europe and the USA. It is very sad that a minority of abnormal people dictate their own rules to the majority. Your films come to us and sometimes it is impossible to watch them, it is not interesting, because they have become the propaganda of the modern agenda: genders, LGBT, blacks began to be inserted everywhere, sometimes in roles that do not suit them at all.

It is called "woke culture". Definitely not something found in Russia.

 

[Bradskii]

I'm talking about a universal rule, as opposed to a separate rule like a nudist camp might have. What do you think the universal rule should be?

You've already decided. You said that you'd be ok in the men's changing room as long as you looked like a guy. Remember? You said it was ok for you as long as no-one knew you weren't a woman.

'one probably wouldn't know.'

So if they wouldn't know, we're going with that. Do you want to change it? Would there be anything else that would prevent you being there? Else we have a rule. Maybe we can work on the details. But, using what you've told me, we're good to go so far.

 

[Nagomirov]

Это называется «культурой пробуждения». Точно не то, что встречается в России.

В России: семейные ценности, у нас нет феминизма, нет пропаганды лгбт, люди читают книги, Достоевский, строятся храмы.

 

[Bradskii]

As I understand the trans ideologues, being transgender does not mean being homosexual, although it may.

So, the "transgender" forms at the gym would specify "trans and homo" for access to the locker room of choice, "trans and hetero" for "stay in your own lane" locker room, "trans and bi" for access to either locker room, "non-trans but homo" ....

Oh, and since gender is fluid, large pads of "Change Order" forms at both locker rooms.

I'm certain that some of the people in my gym today were gay. Like...who cares? Why would gay people need seperate facilities?

Anyway, we have male and female changing rooms. You choose which one you want to use when you join. This is kinda par for the course.