Physical intimacy before marriage

[SullivanZ]

After talking with a good friend of mine the other day, I got to thinking about this subject. He told me about how he was talking to a girl from a different church and about how enjoys watching movies and cuddling. The young lady's response was that her leaders "don't like it when we cuddle." :o I'm not a pastor or self-proclaimed "Apostle" like this church's leader is, but something about that didn't sound right to me. Since when can church leaders dictate whether their church members can doing things like cuddling?

I have also noticed on the internet, that there are a lot of sites dedicated to anti-dating and anti-kissing. :o Again I'm not sure how to respond to that. It's more common than you may think! We also touched on kissing in my other topic, so I'm interested in knowing what you think about intimacy before marriage. Whereabouts do you stand on this topic? Do you think cuddling is a sin? What about kissing? Hugs? How far do you think is acceptable before marriage between a man and woman? All thoughts are welcome!

 

[Starpuppy]

After talking with a good friend of mine the other day, I got to thinking about this subject. He told me about how he was talking to a girl from a different church and about how enjoys watching movies and cuddling. The young lady's response was that her leaders "don't like it when we cuddle." :o I'm not a pastor or self-proclaimed "Apostle" like this church's leader is, but something about that didn't sound right to me. Since when can church leaders dictate whether their church members can doing things like cuddling?

I have also noticed on the internet, that there are a lot of sites dedicated to anti-dating and anti-kissing. :o Again I'm not sure how to respond to that. It's more common than you may think! We also touched on kissing in my other topic, so I'm interested in knowing what you think about intimacy before marriage. Whereabouts do you stand on this topic? Do you think cuddling is a sin? What about kissing? Hugs? How far do you think is acceptable before marriage between a man and woman? All thoughts are welcome!

Personally i feel cuddling is ok BUT you really have to watch before it comes sexual. its like what i read in a website

"Its like a boat which is leaking slowly and can be saved by throwing water out with a bucket now and then but you decide to go to sleep and after a few hours, it is so flooded, you have to jump ship"

personally i feel cuddling as in hugging and light kissing is ok, just cuddling on the couch to watch tv without any sexual thoughts but love is really ok

 

[E.C.]

I draw the line at second base. Cuddle, hug and kiss all you wish, but keep the hands and mouths where they belong.

Cuddling brings intimacy. A major reason why people cheat is because of lack of intimacy.

 

[.Iona.]

I remember being told once that you shouldn't do anything that you wouldn't feel comfortable doing with your brother or sister...

I think cuddling is part of learning about life and other people, as well as yourself. I can see no reason to not allow it.

 

[K9_Trainer]

Idk its up to you and your girl. Nobody else can tell you what is or isn't right for the two of you. I'm not Christian, so obviously I don't have limits, I'll do what I'm comfortable doing, when I'm comfortable doing it. But if you believe its not right to have sex before marriage, then don't. Draw the limits based on what you and your partner agree will not lead to something that you don't want to do. Just keep in mind that at the same time, a relationship needs intimacy. So make sure you don't sacrifice so much intimacy that you make yourself miserable or unhappy, or lose interest.

The whole not kissing until marriage fad just seems like a way for Christians to brag about purity. "I'm more pure than you are because I've never kissed!".

 

[Marycita]

I don't think it's really possible to say what is and what's not a sin before marriage (obviously sex is, I mean the other stuff ). I think, it's something everyone needs to really talk with God about.

Though I will say this...It more depends on how you approach it. The how far is to far question shouldn't be one that Christians ask, imho. If you do, you are getting into legalism and you are just trying to get as much as you can without technically crossing the line.

A better question is how much can I honor my future husband? (or wife as the case may be) If one is truly concerned about purity and not just virginity, etc. then a question like this will be on their minds. And once they answer that, with God guiding them, they will realize where they are to draw boundaries (and not just physically either)

 

[Amber.ly]

I don't think it's really possible to say what is and what's not a sin before marriage (obviously sex is, I mean the other stuff ). I think, it's something everyone needs to really talk with God about.

Though I will say this...It more depends on how you approach it. The how far is to far question shouldn't be one that Christians ask, imho. If you do, you are getting into legalism and you are just trying to get as much as you can without technically crossing the line.

A better question is how much can I honor my future husband? (or wife as the case may be) If one is truly concerned about purity and not just virginity, etc. then a question like this will be on their minds. And once they answer that, with God guiding them, they will realize where they are to draw boundaries (and not just physically either)

Totally agree. Especially the bolded part.

 

[Inkachu]

Well, since marriage is crumbling, extra-marital sex is at its probable highest levels in history, teenage pregnancies and single-parent families are rampant, and STD's are everywhere you look... I have NO problem with any person or group who encourages celibacy and self-control in the extreme. I'd rather see a movement that goes a little too far towards purity, than one that tries to walk the edge, and inevitably fails. It wasn't that long ago when any sort of touching between unwed couples was frowned upon, and that's not a bad thing. If you wanted the pleasure of physical affection, you committed to the person. It's a complete "duh" issue in my mind, even though I know most others don't think the same way.

 

[LadyOfMystery]

I think that cuddling is okay, and I think it's between you and God, not you and a church of humans. Everyone has different opinions on the whole kissing before marriage thing, some don't, some do. I dont think cuddling or kissing is sins, but I think like all things there are good and bad things that go along with cuddling and kissing and you need to keep focused on God about these things.

 

[Luther073082]

Its the Purity cult taking over the church.

Well, since marriage is crumbling, extra-marital sex is at its probable highest levels in history, teenage pregnancies and single-parent families are rampant, and STD's are everywhere you look... I have NO problem with any person or group who encourages celibacy and self-control in the extreme. I'd rather see a movement that goes a little too far towards purity, than one that tries to walk the edge, and inevitably fails.

The pharisee's said the same thing about working on the Sabbath. For the results and what Jesus thought about all of that. Consult the gospels.

By the way, purity is in Christ alone, it is not in any way tied up in our sexuality or lack of experience in sexual matters.

Also these programs towards preventing pre-marital sex have all been proven to be widespread and utter failures. Adding legalism to it has not made these programs to be anything more then failures.

It wasn't that long ago when any sort of touching between unwed couples was frowned upon, and that's not a bad thing. If you wanted the pleasure of physical affection, you committed to the person. It's a complete "duh" issue in my mind, even though I know most others don't think the same way.

When in western history was it frowned upon for any sort of touching between unwed couples?

Because it wasn't in the 20's - 50's. Swing dancing was considered an acceptable date activity at that time. And by the way I've swing danced and that involves touching.

Prior to that we are getting close to 100 years ago. And still there was no great ban on un-married couples *touching*. In fact from 1700's onwards the Waltz (which I have done, and involves touching) was pretty popular and considered acceptable between unmarried couples.

Now in the 1600's the Waltz was considered a bit risque. However it was still acceptable for a man to lead a lady he was not married to escort style. (which is touching)

I could go back further then that if you like. But in western history there was no time when it was completly unacceptable for unmarried couples to touch.

Now I will grant the type of touching and the situations where it is acceptable has increased since then. But there was never a widespread ban on it.

 

[KTskater]

I think a point we should focus on is whether or not we are lusting. Since lusting is the same as committing adultery (Matt. 5:28), then even if you are just holding hands, you are in sin.

It really comes down to your heart in the matter. Is your relationship centered on glorifying God? From my experience, keeping your thoughts pure is much easier, and thus your relationship. If you two are both not in the Word or spending time in prayer, your mind is focused on earthly things, and you will be more inclined to be carnal.
Is cuddling/hugging/kissing a sin? Not inherently. Lust is the issue in these cases, not the act. Remember, we have freedom in Christ, but that doesn't mean we should continue to sin.

 

[Fremdin]

How close do you want to get to getting in the pool when you know you're not supposed to be swimming? It's easy to fall in when you hover around the edges

 

[Inkachu]

Kirk - no, I am not part of any "purity cult" and that's flippin' insulting. Purity is a good thing, purity should be pursued and cherished and taught. Acting like it's an oppressive monster is outlandish, not to mention offensive because GOD is pure, and so should we be. My beliefs aren't based on anything any church ever had to say; they're based on what I believe from God's Word, my own experiences in life (which are vastly greater than most people here will ever experience themselves), and what I observe in the world around me. It's my belief that your body AND your heart AND your affections belong first to God, then to your (future) spouse, and you have no business giving ANY of them to another person casually.

I find the biggest defenders of "let me do what I want" theology are the ones who have a smidgen of guilt about things they've done and they just don't want to admit it.

Unsubscribing.

 

[Luther073082]

Kirk - no, I am not part of any "purity cult" and that's flippin' insulting. Purity is a good thing, purity should be pursued and cherished and taught. Acting like it's an oppressive monster is outlandish, not to mention offensive because GOD is pure, and so should we be.

God in Christ is the only source of purity. To say that purity is anything we can attain for ourselves is heresy.

If we talk about sexual inexperience as being the same thing as purity we teach that purity can be obtained for oneself by abstaining from sex, then we reduce Christ.

The very way you talk about abstenence as "purity" means at the very least you are influenced by their teachings. Sadly the purity cult literally owns a lot of churchs and their power over many church is extensive and close to unlimited. They have made purity into something which can be obtained by a human and therefore reduced Christ.

My beliefs aren't based on anything any church ever had to say; they're based on what I believe from God's Word, my own experiences in life (which are vastly greater than most people here will ever experience themselves), and what I observe in the world around me. It's my belief that your body AND your heart AND your affections belong first to God, then to your (future) spouse, and you have no business giving ANY of them to another person casually.

And those are very true beliefs, sex before marriage is a sin as it destroys God's order. That being said, just because sex before marriage is a sin, it does not give us license to make up rules for other Christians to follow in order to try and help them maintain it.

Jesus never told the pharasee's that ignoring the Sabbath was suddenly ok. But he still had a problem with all their rules that they created in order to help people to uphold the Sabbath. Thus he set the precident. It is not ok, nor is it EVER ok to make up rules which have no basis in scripture in order to try to help people avoid sin. It may be ok to put those rules on yourself, it is not ok to push others to follow them.

I find the biggest defenders of "let me do what I want" theology are the ones who have a smidgen of guilt about things they've done and they just don't want to admit it.

I actually have no guilt about what I've done. I just don't want someone preaching to me rules and laws that are not biblically based.

I especially don't want someone calling anything other then Christ as a source of purity.

 

[Sketcher]

The point with all of this legalism is to not go spinning out of control. I don't believe that all of these man-made rules are right, but the ultimate intention behind them is right.

 

[broken_one]

To be honest I'd say like third base. Basically if the word "sex" is in it, you've got a tad too far.

 

[SullivanZ]

So many opinions, thanks to all who posted. I have heard of the so-called purity cult, if that's what you want to call it, and how they can influence people to make new choices about what is okay physically and what is not. Their intent is good, even if we don't agree with their methods. I think it's a very sentiment to find someone who agrees with you about purity and to find someone who respects you and is on the same page with you in this area. That is a good thing.

But I know it's also not for me either. If I was in a relationship with someone, maybe several dates later, and they did not want to hold my hand, give me a hug, a kiss or even cuddle, I don't think I could pursue the relationship any further. I would be doing something I don't agree with and, to me, following those manmade rules about what is right and wrong would be like being a modern day Pharisee. I wouldn't want to have to pretend that physical touching and contact wasn't important to me when it is. It wouldn't be fair to me or to her. But I have nothing against anyone who sees things differently or who decides to wait until their wedding day to hold hands or hug. If that is something that works for you that's great.

 

[Luther073082]

The point with all of this legalism is to not go spinning out of control. I don't believe that all of these man-made rules are right, but the ultimate intention behind them is right.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions and thats important to remember.

Yes they have good intentions when they make up these rules. But the question has to be asked if they are doing harm to the faith as a whole. My answer is most certainly yes. I belive the purity cult is destroying Christianity by warping its priorities and destroying its teachings.

When we talk about purity in the sexual sense, completly lost is the reality that purity only comes from Christ and no where else. In Christ a prostitute can be more pure then fresh snowfall. Without Christ the most innocent virgin is more disgusting and polluted then raw sewage.

 

[KTskater]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions and thats important to remember.

Yes they have good intentions when they make up these rules. But the question has to be asked if they are doing harm to the faith as a whole. My answer is most certainly yes. I belive the purity cult is destroying Christianity by warping its priorities and destroying its teachings.

When we talk about purity in the sexual sense, completly lost is the reality that purity only comes from Christ and no where else. In Christ a prostitute can be more pure then fresh snowfall. Without Christ the most innocent virgin is more disgusting and polluted then raw sewage.

Good things to remember!

 

[penNpaper]

After talking with a good friend of mine the other day, I got to thinking about this subject. He told me about how he was talking to a girl from a different church and about how enjoys watching movies and cuddling. The young lady's response was that her leaders "don't like it when we cuddle." :o I'm not a pastor or self-proclaimed "Apostle" like this church's leader is, but something about that didn't sound right to me. Since when can church leaders dictate whether their church members can doing things like cuddling?

I have also noticed on the internet, that there are a lot of sites dedicated to anti-dating and anti-kissing. :o Again I'm not sure how to respond to that. It's more common than you may think! We also touched on kissing in my other topic, so I'm interested in knowing what you think about intimacy before marriage. Whereabouts do you stand on this topic? Do you think cuddling is a sin? What about kissing? Hugs? How far do you think is acceptable before marriage between a man and woman? All thoughts are welcome!

I think that some churches can be extreme...hold hands is alright but if you dare kiss your lips will fall off and you will be barren forever lol you danced last night :o BURN THEM blah blah blah

Cudding is alright to a point - you don't want to touch a hot stove or play with fire ya know. I thought about waiting to get married before I kiss my girl to be old-fashion and special but I'm already saving a few other benefits of the Honeymoon already so I want to be a expert on kissing first before that.

If I ever date or court again - I would put lines in the sand because to respect each other as well as to prevent stuff from happening and to remain pure. I ain't no saint and using that stupid line "Boys will be Boys" is no excuse either...I rather be a Man of God thank you and have check guards in place so there won't be issues.

I will probably will not be alone with my future girlfriend in the same room (like a bedroom) when we are dating or courting and other situations.

For respect for her as well as to check guard myself - to not cross that line.

God Bless,
Drew