Philosophical arguments against the existence of God

[quatona]

Lol that's the beauty of this....what's he going to argue? That his god isn't perfect? Isn't a creator?

That your understanding of "perfect" is flawed. For example.

 

[Ana the Ist]

That your understanding of "perfect" is flawed. For example.

Which is why I invite his definition for the term...I'm being as fair as possible here.

I feel the argument can hold up regardless.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I don't think this thread exists for the purpose set out in the OP. I don't think the OP is here for the purpose he claims to be either.

 

[anonymous person]

Lol that's the beauty of this....what's he going to argue? That his god isn't perfect? Isn't a creator?

I'm actually not going to argue with you at all, at least not in the sense of disrespecting you or making this whole discussion into nothing more than a game one tries to win for some prize.

Rather, I am going to familiarize myself with what you have written, think on it, meditate on it, and most importantly pray and seek God's will on how to respond.

My hope and desire is that I be able to respond to your post in a worthy manner.

You have raised some good points. They tie into the argument from evil and since this is the most common objection I hear from people I speak to in person on a daily basis, I think this is a good opportunity for God to show me and help me know how to respond.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I'm actually not going to argue with you at all, at least not in the sense of disrespecting you or making this whole discussion into nothing more than a game one tries to win for some prize.

Rather, I am going to familiarize myself with what you have written, think on it, meditate on it, and most importantly pray and seek God's will on how to respond.

My hope and desire is that I be able to respond to your post in a worthy manner.

I'll wait.

 

[Ana the Ist]

For the record though, free will actors would just be one aspect of his creation...this argument considers it in its entirety.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I'm actually not going to argue with you at all, at least not in the sense of disrespecting you or making this whole discussion into nothing more than a game one tries to win for some prize.

Rather, I am going to familiarize myself with what you have written, think on it, meditate on it, and most importantly pray and seek God's will on how to respond.

My hope and desire is that I be able to respond to your post in a worthy manner.

You have raised some good points. They tie into the argument from evil and since this is the most common objection I hear from people I speak to in person on a daily basis, I think this is a good opportunity for God to show me and help me know how to respond.

Also for the record...I'm not going to call this a dodge. Saying you aren't sure and evading a question aren't the same thing. I do the former all the time.

 

[anonymous person]

Also for the record...I'm not going to call this a dodge. Saying you aren't sure and evading a question aren't the same thing. I do the former all the time.

Indeed. There is nothing wrong at all with saying "I don't know" if you really don't know. I have been caught up far too many times in trying to answer every single question put to me. I realize now that it is best to be transparent and that very well may mean admitting ignorance when it comes to certain issues.

The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law. Deuteronomy 29:29

 

[DogmaHunter]

Since Paul refers to the aforementioned as "fruits of the Spirit", then apart from the Spirit, these things cannot be produced.

Claiming it, does not make it so.

 

[KCfromNC]

Note also, a tree is known by the fruit it bears. A man does not gather figs from thistles.

The only place you can get figs is from fig trees (or the supermarket). Good behavior, on the other hand, can come from lots of motivations - it doesn't require gods to be involved.

 

[Loudmouth]

Thanks for sharing that with me. It will motivate me to pray and seek God's will on how to respond to others who have the same response.

It would be much easier if you asked God to directly post in this thread.

 

[Loudmouth]

The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law. Deuteronomy 29:29

Another human wrote that passage, did they not?

 

[bhsmte]

Yes. The likes I receive and private messages I receive from people that I have helped encourage me that my labor here is not in vain.

I would expect you to get messages from certain Christians.

But, for those observing this thread who are on the fence, when they see how you clearly evade when convenient and fail to support your claims with any evidence (but actually claim you do), is more than likely quite revealing to them.

 

[anonymous person]

Here it is again...I know you've been dodging this for over a week so maybe you forgot.

The problem with forming philosophical arguments against the existence of a god is that the term "god" is rarely ever clearly defined. Without a clear meaning for "god" how does one determine if it exists or not?

So...let's use a very generalized description of "god". I'll describe it as an entity capable of thought that is "perfect" and has created all of reality. Now that we have at least some bare minimum of a definition of a god...we could start to create an argument against its existence....

In using the term "perfect" I'm describing an entity that is "perfect" in every way....not just one. Since one of the functions in my definition of god is "creator"...it logically follows that our "perfect creator" makes perfect creations. That is to say...he makes creations that are the best they could possibly be.

Since this perfect creator is defined as having created everything in existence...if we can find a flaw in his creation, or imagine a creation that could be "better than it is"...we must logically conclude that this god either...

1. Does not exist.
2. Is not perfect.
3. Is not a creator.

Would you agree with my logic so far? If not, where is the flaw? If it's in the definition of god...feel free to create your own definition so I can make a logical argument against it.

I have studied this and prayed about it.

I do have a response.

Before I provide it, I have two questions:

1. Why do you want to make a logical argument against the existence of God?

2. In the event that you are shown your logical argument fails to demonstrate what you think it does, is this going to open the way for you to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins and submit to the Lordship of Christ, or will there be something else that stands in your way and prevents you from doing this?

 

[quatona]

I have studied this and prayed about it.

I do have a response.

Before I provide it, I have two questions:

Ok, before I answer your two questions, I have four other questions.

1. Why do you want to make a logical argument against the existence of God?

You created a thread requesting such.

2. In the event that you are shown your logical argument fails to demonstrate what you think it does, is this going to open the way for you to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins and submit to the Lordship of Christ, or will there be something else that stands in your way and prevents you from doing this?

1. A failed argument against the existence of a generically conceptualized God doesn´t make a good argument for the existence of such a God.
2. Even less it makes an argument for the God of a particular theology.
3. Even less it makes an argument for the God of your particular theology, of all.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I have studied this and prayed about it.

I do have a response.

Before I provide it, I have two questions:

1. Why do you want to make a logical argument against the existence of God?

2. In the event that you are shown your logical argument fails to demonstrate what you think it does, is this going to open the way for you to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins and submit to the Lordship of Christ, or will there be something else that stands in your way and prevents you from doing this?

1. Re-read your OP. Isn't this what you asked for? The kind of thing you wanted to discuss?

2. No. This isn't some foundation upon which I build my atheism. This is something that I whipped up in about the first five minutes after I read the OP. It won't change my position on the existence of a Jesus, or sin, or your god.

 

[anonymous person]

1. Re-read your OP. Isn't this what you asked for? The kind of thing you wanted to discuss?

Sure.

2. No. This isn't some foundation upon which I build my atheism. This is something that I whipped up in about the first five minutes after I read the OP. It won't change my position on the existence of a Jesus, or sin, or your god.

Ok.

If you don't mind my asking, if the fact that the world is imperfect is not what is keeping you from repenting and believing on the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins and submitting to the Lordship of Christ, then what is?

Do you understand my question?

 

[HitchSlap]

Sure.



Ok.

If you don't mind my asking, if the fact that the world is imperfect is not what is keeping you from repenting and believing on the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins and submitting to the Lordship of Christ, then what is?

Do you understand my question?

Speaking for myself, the fact that there is no evidence to support the assertion that a biblical Jesus ever lived, is what prevents me from "repenting and believing on the Lord Jesus Christ."

You might want to watch this:

 

[Ana the Ist]

Sure.



Ok.

If you don't mind my asking, if the fact that the world is imperfect is not what is keeping you from repenting and believing on the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins and submitting to the Lordship of Christ, then what is?

Do you understand my question?

I understand your question...and I'll be happy to answer any questions you have concerning my personal beliefs once you answer the argument you've been dodging for about a week now.

Surely you didn't seek council with god and he told you "keep avoiding this subject at all costs!"?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

1. Why do you want to make a logical argument against the existence of God?

Because that's what you asked for?

2. In the event that you are shown your logical argument fails to demonstrate what you think it does, is this going to open the way for you to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins and submit to the Lordship of Christ, or will there be something else that stands in your way and prevents you from doing this?

The paucity of adequate support for the central claims of your religion.

If you don't mind my asking, if the fact that the world is imperfect is not what is keeping you from repenting and believing on the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins and submitting to the Lordship of Christ, then what is?

See above.