Pew rents

[RaymondG]

If you agree, please vote in the poll. Thus far, nobody has voted in favor of it.

Done. Pew renting is very good for the business.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Done. Pew renting is very good for the business.

Thanks!

 

[com7fy8]

Jesus says,

"Freely you have received, freely give," in Matthew 10:8.

So, from this I see how it is Biblical to have free seating.

The traditional "goodwill" offering is probably the best system for good, earnest Christians.

And what if you were to have money-making tactics which depend on unwilling people paying? What if they get in a huff and leave . . . after you have invested so much in having a building which would depend on them?

Instead, I would develop things according to what freely willing Christians give, because they are likely to stay and keep supporting.

 

[RaymondG]

"Except the Lord build the house, they labour in vain that build it: "

If the Lord is not the builder, it better be one with a very good business plan and value proposition. Perhaps a mixture of renters with ideas catered to long-termers would be ideal......say gratuitous announcements, or appreciate services. Tithe and stay or burn, is being phased out.....and church that do not adapt with have to close.

 

[bbbbbbb]

In the past some churches, especially in urban areas developed buildings with commercial areas which could be rented out and thus provide a stable income to support at least the maintenance of the building. One that comes to mind is Calvary Baptist Church in New York City which built a multipurpose building in the 1920's. The commercial side of the building is the Salisbury Hotel.

 

[prodromos]

For centuries local churches supported their work by either selling the use of pews in the churches outright or renting the pews for varying periods of time. This practice died out beginning in the nineteenth century and is virtually unknown today. All pews were not rented for the same amount of money. Pews that were in better locations rented for more money and the renter could upholster and furnish his pew according to his taste. During the late medieval period some folks even installed fireplaces in their pews (which was actually a small room) to keep warm because there was no other heat in the churches at that time.

Although it might seem to be absurd to the modern mind, there were certain advantages. One was that the congregations were not harangued for money during sermons. Another was that tithing was essentially eliminated because the tithe was simply collected as a standard tax which provided privileges in sitting during a service rather than standing.

What about Churches where there are no pews, such as most Orthodox Churches?

 

[RaymondG]

Many churches set up schoosl as well.. They get good business too because you can say you put your child in a "Christian" school.....and they usually allow for extended hours, which is needed when both parents work. In my experience, the education has been a little above terrible.....but the organization will never be in danger of closing.

 

[RaymondG]

What about Churches where there are no pews, such as most Orthodox Churches?

They can rent standing spots..... front row being more expensive than the back?

 

[bekkilyn]

This seems like a really strange idea considering that many if not most churches are trying to get more people to come into the church in the first place.

 

[bbbbbbb]

What about Churches where there are no pews, such as most Orthodox Churches?

Yes, I thought about that reality before I started this thread. Traditionally, not only Orthodox Churches but Catholic Churches did not use pews. If you needed to sit during the service you would typically bring your own chair.

In those cases, church buildings were normally built by patrons and not dependent upon congregants. In modern times European/Asian patronage has frequently passed to government bodies and buildings which no longer are necessary are declared redundant and demolished, frequently despite their beauty and artistry.

 

[bbbbbbb]

This seems like a really strange idea considering that many if not most churches are trying to get more people to come into the church in the first place.

In the past church attendance was mandatory, especially in areas where the government had its state religion. If you were not in church then you ran afoul of the government and there were consequences. The problem was not attracting people to attend church, but finding economic means to provide room for them to attend. This was a huge problem for the Church of England in the nineteenth century.

 

[bekkilyn]

In the past church attendance was mandatory, especially in areas where the government had its state religion. If you were not in church then you ran afoul of the government and there were consequences. The problem was not attracting people to attend church, but finding economic means to provide room for them to attend. This was a huge problem for the Church of England in the nineteenth century.

Which unfortunately led to problems in which only the wealthier members of society were in church. One of the reasons why John Wesley went and preached at the places where the poor tended to work.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Which unfortunately led to problems in which only the wealthier members of society were in church. One of the reasons why John Wesley went and preached at the places where the poor tended to work.

Both John Wesley and George Whitefield preached in the open air when the church authorities banned them from using the local churches, but both did preach in churches, when possible. George Whitefield was especially noted for his ability to project his voice to crowds numbering in the thousands, which no church building could accommodate. Benjamin Franklin recorded his personal impression of Whitefield when Whitefield preached in Philadelphia. Here is an article for your information - Benjamin Franklin on Rev. George Whitefield, 1739 (nationalhumanitiescenter.org)

 

[grasping the after wind]

Could you provide examples of the right way to ask for tithes?

Once a year read Mark 12:41-44 to the congregation. I belong to a congregation that is in excellent financial condition and have up to this point never had a Pastor harangue about tithing. Once a year there is a service in which the congregants are asked to make a financial commitment indicating by filling out a commitment card whatever amount the individual congregant feel called by God to contribute for the coming year. The rest of the year there is no talk of tithing whatsoever. No one is questioned as to the amount they might have entered or whether they filled out a card at all. No one is confronted by anyone else if they do not fulfill that commitment or if they simply decide not to make a commitment at all. It is taken as a given that the congregants know what God is calling them to contribute and that it is a matter between the individual and God and no one else is empowered to interfere in that relationship. The request for a written commitment is meant to help in the budgeting process and not to be seen as a mechanism to pressure anyone to give more or to fulfill the commitment.

 

[bekkilyn]

Both John Wesley and George Whitefield preached in the open air when the church authorities banned them from using the local churches, but both did preach in churches, when possible. George Whitefield was especially noted for his ability to project his voice to crowds numbering in the thousands, which no church building could accommodate. Benjamin Franklin recorded his personal impression of Whitefield when Whitefield preached in Philadelphia. Here is an article for your information - Benjamin Franklin on Rev. George Whitefield, 1739 (nationalhumanitiescenter.org)

Yes, they did preach in churches, but Wesley also wanted to reach the poor who were generally not welcome in the churches, so he specifically went out to preach to them very early in the morning on workdays.

 

[Paidiske]

It is something church members need to ask hard questions of the churches elders/councel etc, is she working because they cannot live on his stypend or because she wants a career?

I really don't think it takes a working spouse to know whether or not you're paying your minister a decent amount. And it bothers me that this sort of attitude leads into an expectation of the spouse (or indeed wife, as I note you default to) as the unpaid church worker. That's a very dangerous set of expectations.

One of the curious aspects to the church tax is a certain sense of entitlement that taxpayers had to the parsonage, so that the vicar or rector or priest was obligated to host innumerable teas, fetes, etc. in the parsonage, simply because the parishioners felt they owned it.

This happens without a church tax, too. Navigating boundaries around the home when the church owns the home can be tricky.

That said, I've done a variety of things with regard to housing, and I'd choose to be housed by the church, on site if possible. From a ministry point of view the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks.

In the past some churches, especially in urban areas developed buildings with commercial areas which could be rented out and thus provide a stable income to support at least the maintenance of the building.

This sort of thing is common in Australia too. Or the church had enough land to have built homes to rent out at a commercial rate.

 

[Sketcher]

Done. Pew renting is very good for the business.

Church isn't a business. If a church is a business, then that church has strayed.

 

[RaymondG]

Church isn't a business. If a church is a business, then that church has strayed.

So your church isnt registered with the government as some form of organization, listing their board of directors?

 

[Sketcher]

So your church isnt registered with the government as some form of organization, listing their board of directors?

I don't know the legalese, but we're not a business.

 

[RaymondG]

I don't know the legalese, but we're not a business.

Consider yourself informed then. Your church is a government organization and reports back to them every year. Only they are more free to do what they desire with their earnings then a business that plainly state that their goal is to provide a service for profit.

Yes we could serve in our homes in smaller gatherings, but there are many benefits to registering as a business.