Peter's Vision

[pescador]

Many miss this point completely!
1 Corinthians 11:23. *For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
Paul, not a disciple, not in attendance at the 'last supper' establishing churches. When the church at Jerusalem sent witnesses out, what did they find? Brethren breaking the bread of fellowship! He then makes it clear that neglecting this 'ritual?!?' is to bring damnation and early demise upon yourself. Yet, 1 Co 11 is most frequently read at 'communion services' that many churches hold monthly!?!??
*True ministry and leadership by the Holy Spirit.

Have you ever heard of Passover? It's at the Passover feast that Jesus ate the bread with his disciples. It's part of the seder. Where does Paul say that neglecting this brings damnation and early demise(?) upon yourself?

 

[Minister Monardo]

Where does Paul say that neglecting this brings damnation and early demise(?) upon yourself?

The proper breaking of bread in fellowship. 1 Co 11:20-34.

 

[BobRyan]

And the requirements are not the Torah laws.

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

They probably include the set of requirements in scripture where "the first commandment with a promise is the 5th commandment" Eph 6:1-2 -- according to Paul.

And they probably include the set of requirements listed by Christ in Matt 19 where we find this

if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said,
“You shall not commit murder; Ex 20
You shall not commit adultery; Ex 20
You shall not steal; Ex 20
You shall not bear false witness; Ex 20
19 Honor your father and mother; Ex 20:12
and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” (Lev 19:180

 

[BobRyan]

"For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit."

You are quoting old covenant rules which do not apply to gentiles.

" I, Paul, tell you this: If you are counting on circumcision to make you right with God, then Christ will be of no benefit to you."

"And it is clear that no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.”

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole."

Rom 3:19-20 the LAW is the one that defines what sin is - for all mankind - and declares all mankind in need of the Gospel.. no exceptions... still to this very day.

Eph 6:1-2 its is the one where "the fifth commandment is the first commandment with a promise"

it is the one Jeremiah and his readers knew to be "written on heart and mind" under the "NEW covenant" Jer 31:31-34

Romans 7 the LAW is the one with "do not covet" in it.

Romans 13 the LAW includes these commandments (just as we see in Matt 19)
8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9 For this,
“You shall not commit adultery, Ex 20
You shall not murder, Ex 20
You shall not steal, Ex 20
You shall not covet,” Ex 20
and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18
10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

all of it taken from the LAW of Moses.

Rom 3:31 "do we then abolish the LAW by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW"

So then Paul ways in 1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the commandments of God"

Admitting what God's LAW is - and that it is still valid - is not the same as claiming that sinful man gets saved by being "justified by law". No need to conflate those two ideas.

 

[renniks]

Rom 3:19-20 the LAW is the one that defines what sin is - for all mankind - and declares all mankind in need of the Gospel.. no exceptions... still to this very day.

Eph 6:1-2 its is the one where "the fifth commandment is the first commandment with a promise"

it is the one Jeremiah and his readers knew to be "written on heart and mind" under the "NEW covenant" Jer 31:31-34

Romans 7 the LAW is the one with "do not covet" in it.

Romans 13 the LAW includes these commandments (just as we see in Matt 19)
8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9 For this,
“You shall not commit adultery, Ex 20
You shall not murder, Ex 20
You shall not steal, Ex 20
You shall not covet,” Ex 20
and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Lev 19:18
10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

all of it taken from the LAW of Moses.

Rom 3:31 "do we then abolish the LAW by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW"

So then Paul ways in 1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the commandments of God"

Admitting what God's LAW is - and that it is still valid - is not the same as claiming that sinful man gets saved by being "justified by law". No need to conflate those two ideas.

Paul says a person should keep the commandments, but makes it clear that none of that is about salvation. And there's a lot more than the commandments in levitical law. Circumcision and uncircumcision are nothing. No dietary laws are required under the new covenant, either.

 

[HARK!]

This is a great thread!

1. I like the fact that Peter explains the vision without anything about "God has shown me that I need to start eating rat sandwiches"

LOL!

I like that too!

 

[renniks]

Not promoting circumcision here, just obedience to the Holy Spirit by a conscience without offense toward God and man. When I read Leviticus, I did not think, 'I should start doing this'. I thought, look how exact, how precise God's standards are! Grace can never be used as an excuse for sloppy witness.

And how does that apply to the old dietary requirements? Paul also said :"
But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do."

And though he was talking about food sacrificed to idols, it still applies as a general principle.

 

[HARK!]

Many miss this point completely!
1 Corinthians 11:23. *For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
Paul, not a disciple, not in attendance at the 'last supper' establishing churches. When the church at Jerusalem sent witnesses out, what did they find? Brethren breaking the bread of fellowship! He then makes it clear that neglecting this 'ritual?!?' is to bring damnation and early demise upon yourself. Yet, 1 Co 11 is most frequently read at 'communion services' that many churches hold monthly!?!??
*True ministry and leadership by the Holy Spirit.

Well the last supper wasn't Passover; but I believe that we should remember Messiah on Passover too.

Do they read this verse every month?:

(CLV) 1Co 11:1
Become imitators of me, according as I also am of Christ.

I don't see much emphasis being put on this verse; and we should be repeating it throughout our days.

 

[HARK!]

Circumcision and uncircumcision are nothing.

(CLV) Ro 2:25
For circumcision, indeed, is benefiting if you should be putting law into practice, yet if you should be a transgressor of law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.

 

[renniks]

(CLV) Ro 2:25
For circumcision, indeed, is benefiting if you should be putting law into practice, yet if you should be a transgressor of law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.

Are you attempting to use Paul's own words to argue against what he said elsewhere?

 

[HARK!]

Have you ever heard of Passover? It's at the Passover feast that Jesus ate the bread with his disciples. It's part of the seder. Where does Paul say that neglecting this brings damnation and early demise(?) upon yourself?

That wasn't Pesach. The Pesach is eaten on the first day of Hag Matzot. Yahshua ate artos that night. He was executed later on, before the Pesach meal.

 

[Minister Monardo]

And how does that apply to the old dietary requirements? Paul also said :"
But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do."

The Torah is Wisdom of God. I rarely eat pork, not because I am Jewish keeping kosher, but because even the world can tell you that it is nasty. Same for shrimp and crawdads, and I am from NOLA.
Don't you know that Leviticus has procedures for quarantining an infectious person?
How did they know that? God told Moses. We are finding value in that Wisdom today.

 

[HARK!]

Are you attempting to use Paul's own words to argue against what he said elsewhere?

Paul doesn't argue against himself. Let alone against Messiah. If there seems to be a contradiction; it's in your understanding of what Paul said. You might wish to go back and read carefully in context.

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

 

[renniks]

The Torah is Wisdom of God. I rarely eat pork, not because I am Jewish keeping kosher, but because even the world can tell you that it is nasty. Same for shrimp and crawdads, and I am from NOLA.
Don't you know that Leviticus has procedures for quarantining an infectious person?
How did they know that? God told Moses. We are finding value in that Wisdom today.

Oysters are an excellent source of iron. I eat them often
What is wrong with crawfish or lobster other than the price?
I don't find pork nasty either.
The point though, is that the dietary laws aren't required, so eat what works for your body.

 

[pescador]

The Torah is Wisdom of God. I rarely eat pork, not because I am Jewish keeping kosher, but because even the world can tell you that it is nasty. Same for shrimp and crawdads, and I am from NOLA.
Don't you know that Leviticus has procedures for quarantining an infectious person?
How did they know that? God told Moses. We are finding value in that Wisdom today.

Pork is nasty? The world consumes a lot of this animal because a) it tastes wonderful and 2) pigs convert "garbage" that people throw out into excellent meat. Of course you can choose not to eat this excellent meat; that's your decision. BTW, have you tried a slab of ribs or pulled pork? They're both excellent. In addition, these days, pigs are wonderful, intelligent, clean animals.

Shellfish is also excellent food. Try eating lobster if you want the best sea food that God has created.

 

[HARK!]

he condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us,

What is sin?

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.

Yahshua fulfilled the law. Now the law is to be fulfilled in us.

(CLV) 1Co 11:1
Become imitators of me, according as I also am of Christ.

do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

"he condemned sin in the flesh" In other words, don't break the law.

You are quoting old covenant rules which do not apply to gentiles.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

(CLV) Num 15:15
As for the assembly, there shall be one statute for you and for the sojourner sojourning with you. It shall be an eonian statute throughout your generations. Like you so shall the sojourner be before Yahweh.

(CLV) Num 15:16
One law and one custom, it shall come to be for you and for the sojourner sojourning with you.

" I, Paul, tell you this: If you are counting on circumcision to make you right with God, then Christ will be of no benefit to you."

(CLV) Ro 2:25
For circumcision, indeed, is benefiting if you should be putting law into practice, yet if you should be a transgressor of law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.

"And it is clear that no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.”

(CLV) Gn 15:6
Now Abram believed on Elohim, and He reckoned it to him for righteousness

(CLV) Gn 26:5
inasmuch as your father Abraham hearkened to My voice and kept My charge, My instructions, My statutes and My laws.

(CLV) Ja 2:22
You are observing that faith worked together with his works, and by works was faith perfected.

(CLV) Ja 2:23
And fulfilled was the scripture which is saying, Now "Abraham believes God, and it is reckoned to him for righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."

(CLV) Ja 2:24
You see that by works a man is being justified, and not by faith only.

 

[Minister Monardo]

Well the last supper wasn't Passover; but I believe that we should remember Messiah on Passover too.

That's why I referred to 'the last supper'. Traditional! ha.
The crux is that at this feast He gave us command, 'do this in remembrance of me.'
Passover is given as a memorial.
Memorial exists to sustain a memory, in this case, the consecration of the firstborn, which points to Messiah.
A remembrance is the response to the memory.
"where two or more are gathered in My Name, there am I in the midst".
The memorial is the feast, the remembrance is the presence; without which we are practicing rituals.
We are to fellowship in the Spirit of the Living God.
May that be the case in everyone's home.

 

[Minister Monardo]

Oysters are an excellent source of iron. I eat them often
What is wrong with crawfish or lobster other than the price?
I don't find pork nasty either.
The point though, is that the dietary laws aren't required, so eat what works for your body.

Check with your dietician. This isn't a spiritual issue.

 

[Minister Monardo]

BTW, have you tried a slab of ribs or pulled pork? T

Both delicious, and I do occasionally partake. But if your diet is heavy in pork, you will have health complications. Some people eat bacon with everything, breakfast, on their hamburger...
Check with your dietician, this isn't a spiritual issue. The world can tell you what constitutes a healthy diet, which is not based on 'delicious'. And yes, pigs eat garbage.

 

[Minister Monardo]

Both delicious, and I do occasionally partake. But if your diet is heavy in pork, you will have health complications. Some people eat bacon with everything, breakfast, on their hamburger...
Check with your dietician, this isn't a spiritual issue. The world can tell you what constitutes a healthy diet, which is not based on 'delicious'. And yes, pigs eat garbage.

Philippians 4:5. Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand