Personal Tnoughts on Marriage

[mkgal1]

If I could make a comparison....it's kind of like saying that you can fix a gate with wood filler. You can mend a gate with wood filler, as long as it's not so rotten its falling apart. In the same way hard work and good communication from one person in a marriage can help as long as the marriage itself is not rotted from the other persons total lack of willingness to cooperate.

And this statement is also true. What is hard, painful and difficult to reconcile for anyone going through that is did you try enough? So it's not so much disputing the general statement about hard work and communication as just to say that sometimes not even that will work.

Right. I guess that is why it gets to be confusion. It isn't that the statements themselves are NOT true....it is how they are committed to our memories and then used.....almost AGAINST one another (or ourselves). Or....they cause us to look in the wrong direction.....which makes us MISS looking at the RIGHT thing.....we don't properly define what the actual problem even is.

 

[Created2Write]

I guess we'll just have to disagree Jane. One spouse working hard while the other one isn't, I see as an unhappy and unhealthy marriage, but a marriage nonetheless. One that could be restored through the committed spouses efforts. I define marriage AS hard work and communication, even if only one spouse is doing it. The marriage doesn't cease to exist, imo, until the divorce. If the divorce isn't final, there's always a chance the marriage could be restored. Even after the divorce, I've seen marriages restored, but that's off topic.

 

[mkgal1]

I have a husband who has been lying to me for 5 years. He claims he's been saved and was baptized. I know we all make mistakes and I made a doozy choosing to marry him in the first place. I was outside the will of God for my life. I was living with him outside of marriage and caught him in many a lie. I still chose to marry him. How many want to call me stupid here. June 6th I joined this site and I vented my feelings in the Depression forum. I really don't know what to do about it. I'm very lost with all this.

I am a very strong lover of Jesus, and I know His word forbids divorce other than adultery. I know he's been with other women for a fact but I don't know if he has actually had sex with anyone else. His job requires him to be gone for 2-3 months at a time with no accountability to me. He's on a ship and so for several days at a time I know nothing. Add all the lies he tells and I am in a very depressed and oppressed situation. Just two months ago, I was on the phone with him and he was in port. He told me when he got off of work he would call me. He didn't have to work that day but lied and said he did. I have become quite the little spy and investigator (not that I'm happy with myself for that because that is not the way I want to live and have a marriage) I stayed on the phone when he thought i hung up and the internal phone in his room on the ship rang. It was a younger woman who's working on the ship he's on as an engineer. He called her baby and told her he made arrangements with me and when she was ready to go ashore to cal him. My heart was racing a thousand miles a minute. I think I put up with this because I love him but I don't know anymore. I'm very hurt and I don't know what to do. Lies are so destructive!

It breaks my heart to hear about things like this....mostly that the Bible...God's word has been used against you.

Those words.....that divorce is only if there is adultery....were spoken to the Pharisees. They were trying to trap Jesus as there were two groups that were arguing at the time. One was a liberal group that believed that as long as a writ of divorce was given.....a man could divorce his wife for ANY reason...anything that "displeased" him was reason enough (women could not divorce....they didn't have the freedom to do so). The other group believed that "no matter what" the marriage was a covenant....and divorce was not an option....so, instead they worked their way around it and had multiple women....but, they weren't divorced. So...with that context....imagine THESE men asking Jesus his thought....because siding with either of these groups was a lose for Jesus....HIs credibility would be gone. That is why He said the words He said to those men....those words would be directed to your husband...but layer that with how Christ talked about our intentions.....our heart...and how spritual laws are imporatant...not just laws of the land. Laws to love....honor and cherish you as his wife.

 

[mkgal1]

But IMO, that is not a marriage. A marriage is two people. A marriage where only one is invested is a sham, a shell.

I agree. It does violence to what God created with marriage.

A marriage is more than just going through the ceremony and hanging on.......making sure a divorce isn't filed.

God has standards for His relationship with us. Jesus even said, "if you love me....you will obey my commands"...so our love is seen....demonstrated.....is something tangible. Marriage isn't just in "name only". Remember the verse..."Lord, Lord...." and the response being...."Get away...I never knew you.....". It makes me think of that......we can believe all we want to.....that doesn't change the truth of what He perceives as what a marriage is......it really isn't based on OUR opinion. It really matters what He desires.

 

[vermin06]

I think, what would help with decreasing divorce, is to not set up a standard as to what a marriage should always have to be like. Also, we need to get rid of the Hollywood concept of marriage. You fall in love, and you're supposed to get married, as if love is the only component needed to make a marriage work. It's a good element to have, of course, but not the basis, I don't think.

There are people who, for some reason or another, are not comfortable with the idea of living with one person their whole life. But so often, I hear of people like that who feel guilty for living a lifestyle free of commitment to another person because culturally, that's what acceptable. It's almost expected, isn't it? Sure feels that way.

I also think the government should have nothing to do with marriage. None. The government shouldn't be able to tell me who I can and can't marry, or to how many people I want to be with. I understand it's mostly for tax reasons, but they could do a better job putting all that together, I'm sure. But laws? No. The only laws pertaining to personal relationships should be no adults being romantically involved with children (as it's harmful to the children), and keep the spousal abuse laws intact, for safety.

I'm sure some of you disagree with me, though XD I know, "damn liberal hippies!"

 

[Conservativation]

No, what it needs to say is that it takes willingness to work hard and communicate on the part of both spouses. Whatever anyone thinks, I can assure you that a marriage can't stand on just one spouse.

Oh, yes....it can. It can stand on one spouse for a long time, even if they live apart....fluffy language about the marriage not being there is just that, fluffy language with designs on an agenda....however, one man sat outside the gates for, correct me if Im wrong.....38 years.....waiting for healing...physical healing and knowing, having faith, it WOULD happen...and it did, he is one of the most inspirational men of the Bible in my opinion

So, here we are, saying "if one person drops the rope its useless"

Two sets of standards....one for relationships, and another for everything else.

 

[JaneFW]

I guess we'll just have to disagree Jane. One spouse working hard while the other one isn't, I see as an unhappy and unhealthy marriage, but a marriage nonetheless. One that could be restored through the committed spouses efforts..

But the "committed" spouse cannot restore the marriage alone. That's impossible. You can talk to every single person on here who has difficult marriages or has been divorced, and they will tell you the same thing. It doesn't matter how hard you try, you cannot single-handedly restore a marriage. Both spouses have to be want the restoration.

 

[JaneFW]

I think, what would help with decreasing divorce, is to not set up a standard as to what a marriage should always have to be like. Also, we need to get rid of the Hollywood concept of marriage. You fall in love, and you're supposed to get married, as if love is the only component needed to make a marriage work. It's a good element to have, of course, but not the basis, I don't think.

There are people who, for some reason or another, are not comfortable with the idea of living with one person their whole life. But so often, I hear of people like that who feel guilty for living a lifestyle free of commitment to another person because culturally, that's what acceptable. It's almost expected, isn't it? Sure feels that way.

I also think the government should have nothing to do with marriage. None. The government shouldn't be able to tell me who I can and can't marry, or to how many people I want to be with. I understand it's mostly for tax reasons, but they could do a better job putting all that together, I'm sure. But laws? No. The only laws pertaining to personal relationships should be no adults being romantically involved with children (as it's harmful to the children), and keep the spousal abuse laws intact, for safety.

I'm sure some of you disagree with me, though XD I know, "damn liberal hippies!"

Actually I'm wondering why an atheist is posting in a Christian forum.

 

[JaneFW]

Oh, yes....it can. It can stand on one spouse for a long time, even if they live apart....fluffy language about the marriage not being there is just that, fluffy language with designs on an agenda....however, one man sat outside the gates for, correct me if Im wrong.....38 years.....waiting for healing...physical healing and knowing, having faith, it WOULD happen...and it did, he is one of the most inspirational men of the Bible in my opinion

So, here we are, saying "if one person drops the rope its useless"

Two sets of standards....one for relationships, and another for everything else.

Well I'm not that person. So I'm obviously failing miserably as a Christian. Same as I fail as a wife. So whatever.

 

[mkgal1]

Oh, yes....it can. It can stand on one spouse for a long time, even if they live apart....fluffy language about the marriage not being there is just that, fluffy language with designs on an agenda....however, one man sat outside the gates for, correct me if Im wrong.....38 years.....waiting for healing...physical healing and knowing, having faith, it WOULD happen...and it did, he is one of the most inspirational men of the Bible in my opinion

So, here we are, saying "if one person drops the rope its useless"

Two sets of standards....one for relationships, and another for everything else.

That was PERSONAL healing Cons....and he wanted it (although wasn't expecting it). What other choice did he have? He was unable to walk....he was sitting outside the gates begging for $$ in order to survive...that is quite different.

 

[McScribe]

Thats part of life, you just keep trying until you get it right, some people have had like 3 divorces and countless relationships before they got it right. Some people may not even learn that a certian thing was a deal breaker for them until they were already married, just have to try again. Just have to learn who you can trust and who to ignore and how to be smart about the decisions you make.

And this is reality.

 

[McScribe]

But the "committed" spouse cannot restore the marriage alone. That's impossible. You can talk to every single person on here who has difficult marriages or has been divorced, and they will tell you the same thing. It doesn't matter how hard you try, you cannot single-handedly restore a marriage. Both spouses have to be want the restoration.

In a way what's being argued about is philosophical points, and I would rather not. Obviously one active person, for example, and one passive, can effectively make a good marriage together, and obviously expecting every year or month to be wonderful is unrealistic.

What I am saying literally in my case is that when my wife decided to live as a lesbian and decided that a particular woman would fulfill her dreams of love, there was nothing I could do about it. My loving behavior towards her is for two reasons: because I genuinely do love her and because I want to emulate Christ.

What I don't like is crappy so called guarantees. We dont act by faith because we expect a particular outcome. For example Daniel living by faith gets a different result from Stephen acting by faith. When I was in the midst of my marriage trying, being faithful, being devoted were I believe good things to do but at the end of the day they yielded none of the results they are supposed to yield. I'm not trying to tell anyone not to try, not to be devoted, not to go for the long haul, but I am saying that sometimes that just doesn't work.

And for other nitpickers, saying it doesn't feel like a marriage is a way of avoiding having to say bluntly "my marriage feels awful to be in most of the time." it's almost unbearable to have to say that. It's far easier to talk philosophically.

 

[Conservativation]

That was PERSONAL healing Cons....and he wanted it (although wasn't expecting it). What other choice did he have? He was unable to walk....he was sitting outside the gates begging for $$ in order to survive...that is quite different.

I know what it was.

Remember the power of words....those who cant, indeed wont

 

[mkgal1]

I know what it was.

Remember the power of words....those who cant, indeed wont

What an excellent example of how "power words" lack power.

 

[mkgal1]

Actually I'm wondering why an atheist is posting in a Christian forum.

It is permitted. There are just certain areas that she isn't "allowed".

She ironically seems to understand God's love and attributes more than a lot of Christians do.

 

[JaneFW]

In a way what's being argued about is philosophical points, and I would rather not. Obviously one active person, for example, and one passive, can effectively make a good marriage together, and obviously expecting every year or month to be wonderful is unrealistic.

I'm not talking one active and one passive. I'm saying one that is working in the marriage, and one that is not. That's very different to two people who have different personalities.

What I am saying literally in my case is that when my wife decided to live as a lesbian and decided that a particular woman would fulfill her dreams of love, there was nothing I could do about it. My loving behavior towards her is for two reasons: because I genuinely do love her and because I want to emulate Christ.

What you mean that working hard and communicating wouldn't have changed her mind? Exactly my point.

What I don't like is crappy so called guarantees. We dont act by faith because we expect a particular outcome. For example Daniel living by faith gets a different result from Stephen acting by faith. When I was in the midst of my marriage trying, being faithful, being devoted were I believe good things to do but at the end of the day they yielded none of the results they are supposed to yield. I'm not trying to tell anyone not to try, not to be devoted, not to go for the long haul, but I am saying that sometimes that just doesn't work.

Exactly.

And for other nitpickers, saying it doesn't feel like a marriage is a way of avoiding having to say bluntly "my marriage feels awful to be in most of the time." it's almost unbearable to have to say that. It's far easier to talk philosophically.

Oh I'm open to saying that it's awful most of the time. It just is. And no amount of using "special words" or beating myself up for not being as patient as saint make it any less awful.

 

[JaneFW]

What an excellent example of how "power words" lack power.

LOL. It's kind of funny. Oh okay, so that entirely changed my perspective on my marriage just reading that today. That's the answer, right? It's not that I can't change my husband, it's that I won't. All this time and I had the answer right there. I will go home today and I will change him!! I will say YOU ARE CHANGED - SHAZAM!!! And lo and behold, he will be changed. Damn. I wish I had known that 11 years ago.

 

[McScribe]

I get that. I don't agree, because I have seen cases that were in the divorce process, almost to the day of signing papers and being over and done, and the marriage came back. And is still together today, from what I understand.

And I have seen cases where one spouse did all the work, for years and years, and it didn't work, and they divorced. Hence why I said not all marriages can be saved from hard work and communication. The fact is though, that marriages CAN be saved with just one spouse living out their vows. That's my entire point.



I know it doesn't always work. That's why I said it doesn't always work. And, if it doesn't, I don't think that means the committed spouse didn't try hard enough. In the case I saw, the husband tried harder than anyone else could have with his wife, but she was too worried about her hair, her nails, her tan and her flirting with other men, that he got fed up and left. There was no way he could have tried harder. The marriage failing was not HIS fault, it was hers.

But, in some cases, it does work. That's all I'm saying. I'm sorry if I offended anyone who has tried, and is trying. I'm not trying to imply or state that you're not trying enough, or that you didn't try enough. Not what I'm saying at all.

I know. There is nothing wrong with your message. I think that you and your husband (my spell checker almost made me post "your guava") have a good testimony, I think that things you have confessed here show amazing faith and courage and honesty.

I really just wish that the relationship books were not so devoted to hyping a guarantee of success. I think it distracts from faith. I think as well that hearing that something can succeed from faith was hard for me personally because I found that I began to hope for that more than I was focusing on placing my hope in Gods goodness and wisdom.

When I hear about how much of a blessing I am to my family, and to my new church it is painful. That may sound silly but my greatest struggle is feeling like a failure. So I'm not saying these things to dispute the idea of the importance of working hard and communicating well, because they are obvious recipes for success in any good relationship. I think you know what I'm trying to say.

 

[Created2Write]

But the "committed" spouse cannot restore the marriage alone. That's impossible. You can talk to every single person on here who has difficult marriages or has been divorced, and they will tell you the same thing. It doesn't matter how hard you try, you cannot single-handedly restore a marriage. Both spouses have to be want the restoration.

True. BUT, the committed spouse, standing alone, CAN be what eventually is the cause of the uncommitted spouse's heart softening again. I'm not saying that one spouse alone can fix it, I'm saying the commitment of one spouse can be what leads to it being fixed by both parties.

 

[JaneFW]

I'm sorry if I offended anyone who has tried, and is trying. I'm not trying to imply or state that you're not trying enough, or that you didn't try enough. Not what I'm saying at all.

I don't think that you said that. Others have, but I'm not conscious that you are one of them.