Personal Tnoughts on Marriage

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I know some of you have heard me going on about the marriage contract or agreement thing, and I'm sure some of you think that it is my sense of caution about being hurt again, and there is an element of truth in that.

As I'm thinking about it I'm not so sure that being more thoughtful about marriage is a bad thing. We talk about how young people should be when they get married, the conditions under which divorce should be acceptable, how to conduct yourself in a second marriage and so on.

I think that having stuff written down mutually would help me, anyway. I like the idea of knowing what I might expect from a future spouse and what she would expect of me.I like the idea that it could suit our particular marriage and have within it the possibility of adaptation to future concerns.

But I also think it could help others, from people of different faiths, people who marry very young, people reconsidering what marriage has come to mean after years of marriage, to people who didn't think sex would be a big issue to people who didn't think that they needed a mutual agreement on whether to have children.
 

dallasapple

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As long as the adaptation part was in it I could agree to that..

Because a lot of the stuff I might have written down then..well lets put it this way..at 20 years old..I wouldnt have even THOUGHT of some of the stuff that later I thought was "wrong" ...know what I mean?

I also just dont think I could make promises based on the fact I could never predict my "feelings" in reaction to if HE did me"wrong etc..even things I might have thought were "dealbreakers" as in this is required or else I would leave..I know for a fact ultmately I didnt leave over those things..things I would have at 20 thought I without a doubt I would have ended the marriage over...

I guess I get 'stumped" on being able to promise things that have any basis in "feelings"..The subject of 'passion" has come up..well at 20 ...I would have been lying..well lets say unrealistic ..if I was supposed to promise uniterrupted passion ..

But I do agree..that you should have common goals on the big things of course....

Dallas
 
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I guess it depresses me to sometimes see it as so much a luck of the draw thing, so much of stuff hidden or totally confusing. But I just think you pointed out why most people might resist such a thing. I don't believe, currently, that I'd ever want to take the risk again if all I can do is hope that someone continues to feel good about me rather than having any notion of what I can do to make the relationship work.
 
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c1ners

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It's good to have things written down, but sometimes it's not a real good idea to hold someone to every little detail of what they said at a certain time in their lives. People change. Their ideals change. Their priorities change. Life happens and you shouldn't be held to a set of standards that you thought were ideal at the time.

Communication is better. But that's just my opinion.
 
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dallasapple

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I guess it depresses me to sometimes see it as so much a luck of the draw thing, so much of stuff hidden or totally confusing. But I just think you pointed out why most people might resist such a thing. I don't believe, currently, that I'd ever want to take the risk again if all I can do is hope that someone continues to feel good about me rather than having any notion of what I can do to make the relationship work.

Well I dont think its "all " luck though..

I guess if you look at it in terms of 'you are lucky" they dont leave you ..but then again they are "lucky " you havent left them..and you know you havent just stayed becaue its all peaches in cream its a "choice" no luck on YOUR end..well..which I guess then makes them "lucky"..

Yeah so I guess if you look at it that way..each one is "lucky" the other one doesnt throw in the towel..

but if it makes you feel any better..i can name all the things my husband has done to make me have "discontinued" good feelings about him..BUT I can tell you all the things he has done to "try" and cause me t have good feelings towards him..if he had done only the things that made me NOT feel that way towards him I wouldnt be here..so it DOES make a difference at least for me..sometimes it doesnt seem that way but in the long run it does..

IOW its no wonder you feel hopeless if you are saying you can have NO positive influence on how your spouse sees you ....with exceptions ..I disagree with you ...

Dallas
 
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Conservativation

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Adaptation is fine for the young. If you are 40, and need to account for changes in you with age or whatever, then you shouldnt marry anyway. Its silly to say at that point adaptation, thats like saying well, so long as he/she can handle the fact that I may decide I want something different. NO....the entire point is to bracket that...to say, OK, lets have a process whereby we can attempt to see if one of us is being unreasonable...that we laid out groundrules and now we are breaking them....I cant speak for McS...but that seems like the point, a process OTHER THAN threat of divorce or else.....to change by mutual agreement
 
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Fran75

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Whether it is written list or a verbal agreement laying out some basic ground rules for a marriage is a good idea provided it is keep short and to the point. In our marriage we are in agreement that adultery and domestic violence will not be tolerated and would likely lead to divorce. My husband also made it clear to me in the beginning that he expected me to work out side the home even if we had children. There can always be extenuating circumstances and things can change but being aware that our spouses have strong beliefs and opinions on certain matters is wise.
 
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chaz345

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I guess it depresses me to sometimes see it as so much a luck of the draw thing, so much of stuff hidden or totally confusing. But I just think you pointed out why most people might resist such a thing. I don't believe, currently, that I'd ever want to take the risk again if all I can do is hope that someone continues to feel good about me rather than having any notion of what I can do to make the relationship work.

You can hope to find someone who bases their life and actions on the Bible and does what they know to be right rather than being ruled by their feelings.

Obviously everything we're called to do in marriage is easier if the feelings are there, but the Bible is quite clear, in many places that we're supposed to do what's right, even when the feelings aren't there.

(queue the folks whining and blathering about how do you do what's right when you are neglected for years)
 
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JaneFW

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(queue the folks whining and blathering about how do you do what's right when you are neglected for years)
That's pretty unkind and uncaring Chaz. When you have troubles, you don't expect people to say that you are "whining and blathering" so I don't know why you would represent others that way.
 
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JaneFW

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I guess it depresses me to sometimes see it as so much a luck of the draw thing, so much of stuff hidden or totally confusing. But I just think you pointed out why most people might resist such a thing. I don't believe, currently, that I'd ever want to take the risk again if all I can do is hope that someone continues to feel good about me rather than having any notion of what I can do to make the relationship work.
I understand what you're saying (I think) but you simply can't guarantee that any relationship is going to last, sadly. You can be super careful about the person you choose to date, you can talk endlessly about your beliefs and feelings and expectations, but you cannot - unless someone gives you a super fancy crystal ball - ever see what will be. That's the conclusion I have come to anyway. When I met my second husband, I thought that he was the proverbial knight in shining armor. In retrospect I put him on a pedestal so high that there was no way he wasn't going to take a BIG fall. I just didn't expect us to be where we are after 10 or so years, or to be SO wrong about who he is at the core of his being. (Hoping that doesn't sound a bit new age-y.) But we get by. It could be worse. I could still be with my ex or on my own!! It isn't the marriage I thought I was getting, but some of the time it's okay. And I think it's okay to settle for okay, rather than split up and hurt children, and cause chaos and then end up 1) alone or 2) just as miserable with someone else!!

I hope that's not a total downer. Sorry.
 
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mkgal1

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As much as we would like to think that it is within our control to plan well....think out all the possible worse-case scenarios and devise ways to prevent those things from occurring.....it simply is impossible for US to control the heart and mind of another person.

That doesn't mean that we are to throw caution to the wind and just hope and pray that things will work out....but, that our hope and trust should not be in our abilities or our plans.

IOW....McS...the lesson you taught the Sunday school children...that "even when we do all the right things....bad things can happen to us"...that is what we all should remember. "Doing the right things" is a good thing....yet, it isn't the formula for a life that looks like what we imagine.
 
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mkgal1

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I thought I should throw in an "upside" to all this...:).

We CAN depend on God (I know that just sounds like a platitude....)...but, when that really sinks in...and we see how undependable everything else is, and that is ALL we have.....we then realize that is enough. His grace IS sufficient (and....to boot....He will provide us with awesome Christian brothers and sisters as well). And maybe....when the time is right.....He will provide you with a wife...one that loves God and encourages you. "Seek ye first the kingdom of God" (Sorry about the endless cliches).
 
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chaz345

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That's pretty unkind and uncaring Chaz. When you have troubles, you don't expect people to say that you are "whining and blathering" so I don't know why you would represent others that way.

I'm not talking about people who talk about their own personal situation. I'm talking about people who, in a general conversation, respond to any suggestion that the Biblical thing to do may not be the easiest or best feeling thing to do with some extreme hypothetical example.
 
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As much as we would like to think that it is within our control to plan well....think out all the possible worse-case scenarios and devise ways to prevent those things from occurring.....it simply is impossible for US to control the heart and mind of another person.

That doesn't mean that we are to throw caution to the wind and just hope and pray that things will work out....but, that our hope and trust should not be in our abilities or our plans.

IOW....McS...the lesson you taught the Sunday school children...that "even when we do all the right things....bad things can happen to us"...that is what we all should remember. "Doing the right things" is a good thing....yet, it isn't the formula for a life that looks like what we imagine.


Right, this is big! Sometimes, we will do the right thing, with the right motive, and suffer for it. Why? Jesus tells us that we will be persecuted in this world. That shouldn't come from one's spouse, but it could. The fact of the matter, is that there is evil in this world, and there is no guarantee that the one we married, won't be deceived. There is no guarantee that any of us won't be deceived, except that scripture tells us we will know the truth, if we continue in His word, and if we love the truth, If we don't, we will be overtaken by delusion.
 
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chaz345

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I thought I should throw in an "upside" to all this...:).

We CAN depend on God (I know that just sounds like a platitude....)...but, when that really sinks in...and we see how undependable everything else is, and that is ALL we have.....we then realize that is enough. His grace IS sufficient (and....to boot....He will provide us with awesome Christian brothers and sisters as well). And maybe....when the time is right.....He will provide you with a wife...one that loves God and encourages you. "Seek ye first the kingdom of God" (Sorry about the endless cliches).

Absolutely. But if you really believe this then why are you so often on the side of "that's not easy to do" or "how long is one expected to do that" when I talk about doing the right thing even if/when the spouse isn't reciprocating?
 
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mkgal1

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Absolutely. But if you really believe this then why are you so often on the side of "that's not easy to do" or "how long is one expected to do that" when I talk about doing the right thing even if/when the spouse isn't reciprocating?
Are you actually questioning what I believe, Chaz? I'm pretty sure you know enough about my personal life that you know that I am NOT a supporter of the "marriage is easy" philosophy...(or life is easy, for that matter). And....the "how long is one expected to do that?" is a whole separate matter.....McS already has experience with that. I have trust in his ability to discern.
 
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chaz345

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Are you actually questioning what I believe, Chaz? I'm pretty sure you know enough about my personal life that you know that I am NOT a supporter of the "marriage is easy" philosophy...(or life is easy, for that matter). And....the "how long is one expected to do that?" is a whole separate matter.....McS already has experience with that. I have trust in his ability to discern.

Sorry that was poorly worded. There just seems to me to be a contradiction between "we can rely on God for everything" and what you say when I suggest that we are to do the right thing(God's thing) no matter what our spouse does. The how long is not a separate matter. If God always comes through, always provides us with what we need to do what He expects of us, then what our spouse is or isn't doing shouldn't really be a factor unless it's extreme. When you suggest that it's impossible to continue on when one's spouse isn't holding up their end, can you not see how that sounds like you are saying that God can't or won't provide their needs?
 
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mkgal1

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Sorry that was poorly worded. There just seems to me to be a contradiction between "we can rely on God for everything" and what you say when I suggest that we are to do the right thing(God's thing) no matter what our spouse does. The how long is not a separate matter. If God always comes through, always provides us with what we need to do what He expects of us, then what our spouse is or isn't doing shouldn't really be a factor unless it's extreme. When you suggest that it's impossible to continue on when one's spouse isn't holding up their end, can you not see how that sounds like you are saying that God can't or won't provide their needs?
God always comes through......people do NOT always come through.

I never said it is "impossible to continue on" when one's spouse isn't holding up their end. How COULD I believe that, Chaz? I LIVE that...and have for quite some time now (still married to (and living with) my FIRST (only) husband--after 25 years of being together). What I DID say is that isn't an agreement with our spouse any longer.....that takes TWO people to have an agreement. It is minimized to only an agreement between God and the remaining spouse and how long that continues is between God and that person.
 
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JanniGirl

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Why would we assume that someone who would break their marriage vows would honor some "agreement"?

Isn't the agreement we make on our wedding day enough? (obviously, it isn't, but adding more layers of agreement and more stipulations and more scenarios to cover doesn't seem to be the answer to me).
 
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