Personal Tnoughts on Marriage

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iambren

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I'll admit, I'm jaded. Seems "luck of the draw" describes it best.

I picked these prerequisites 25 years ago:

1 Born again Christian
2 College educated
3 No kids

Dated 5 years!! Saw each other almost everyday, ministry together, mutually attracted.......and STILL ended divorced!

If I was not a Christian I would punt, stay out of the marriage business.
 
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citizenthom

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*blind post*

Take it from a lawyer: the last thing you want in marriage is a "contract." Contracts are about what YOU can hold the other person to, and your damages if they don't follow through. The most important thing for marriage is for both parties to understand that their obligations to their spouse come from GOD, not the spouse himself/herself. Deep Bible study, having other Christians to hold the spouse to his/her duties, those are important; but trust me, you can't make the other party to a marriage "contract" actually perform.
 
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Created2Write

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*blind post*

Take it from a lawyer: the last thing you want in marriage is a "contract." Contracts are about what YOU can hold the other person to, and your damages if they don't follow through. The most important thing for marriage is for both parties to understand that their obligations to their spouse come from GOD, not the spouse himself/herself. Deep Bible study, having other Christians to hold the spouse to his/her duties, those are important; but trust me, you can't make the other party to a marriage "contract" actually perform.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:
 
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mkgal1

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Deep Bible study, having other Christians to hold the spouse to his/her duties, those are important; but trust me, you can't make the other party to a marriage "contract" actually perform.
Especially THIS part. You simply cannot come up with enough verbiage to govern another person's heart. If they aren't interested.....they will NOT be held to anything written. Even if you COULD cover all bases......would you really WANT to be bound like that? Married, only because the other couldn't find a loophole?

It is up to us to seek God's direction in choosing........not checking off what lines up with OUR image of how things SHOULD be.
 
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Created2Write

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Mine is a blind post as well, well, mostly blind.

My husband and I, about halfway through our first year of marriage, were so upset and dissatisfied with the other, that we sat down and wrote out what it was we expected from the other, asked if our expectations were unreasonable, agreed that they were not, and promised to do our best to live up to what we expected of each other.

One week later, the "contract/written expectations" were forgotten and we were arguing as much as ever.

What HAS worked? Open, honest and straightforward communication about our hurts, and our sorrows. Marriage absolutely can not and will not work if both spouses aren't willing to LEARN the other person. And yes, I do mean learn. I had to learn that is wasn't my feelings that were being rejected, like I thought, but rather it was how I expressed my feelings that were being rejected. Our first year and a half of marriage I knew this was what much of the issue was(because he told me), I knew that all I had to do was understand this and strive not to be as expressive as I was about my feelings, but I couldn't do it. I hated the much of the fault, much of the issues, lied solely on my unwillingness to change. I saw it as being beneath me, and I couldn't humble myself enough to admit it.

My husband also had his arrogance too. He couldn't admit to himself that he really was a stubborn a** sometimes. It was easier for him to reflect his faults by magnifying my own, and throwing them in my face. This, in turn, made me even more determined not to be the one to give in and do the right thing, which led to even more fights, and ultimately, a threat to divorce on both sides. After, not even, a year of marriage.

Once I realized this was the issue, and grew tired of crying myself to sleep every night, I confessed my feelings and my sins to him, and asked for forgiveness, and then pointed out how I had been treated. He actually admitted his wrong doings in full, something I never thought possible, and we were able to renew our vows to each other(privately), and now we're approaching our second anniversary SO much healthier than before.

Another interesting fact: since the communication has increased and improved(i.e. since I've stopped spouting off every little hurt I feel, and since he's realized sometimes what he says hurts, and since we've both realized how healing the words "I'm sorry" can be), our expectations has CHANGED. What I wrote down on that paper all those months and months ago, are irrelevant to our marriage now. I WANT the same things, sure, but I don't EXPECT them like I used to. I'm just happy to sit and have a beer with him, and to know that he's even attempting to write a song for me. Who cares if it's taken him three months so far? He's working on it, and that's what counts, NOT the time in which he does it in.

And ya know, another thing I've realized: how special would it be if he were actually good at the romantic stuff? Knowing it's hard for him, and that he still tries, is so much more romantic than a guy who just does what's easy for him already.

Point being, communication, imo, is SO much more effective than any contract can be. And I mean TRUE communication. Not the kind where you just talk AT each other.
 
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BigDaddy4

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Why would we assume that someone who would break their marriage vows would honor some "agreement"?

Isn't the agreement we make on our wedding day enough? (obviously, it isn't, but adding more layers of agreement and more stipulations and more scenarios to cover doesn't seem to be the answer to me).


I was going to say something along these lines, too. Shouldn't our wedding vows be enough?

I think a real good dose of premarital counseling should be in order, especially for re-marriages. Give yourselves a chance to dig deeper into beliefs, expectations, likes/dislikes, etc. Discuss what it means to be in a Godly or covenant marriage. Talk about what "for better or for worse, etc." means.

I'm not saying that premarital counseling would guarantee a happy succesful marriage, but if you know beforehand some of the things that you'd be getting into, then you can choose to go into it with "eyes wide open" rather than "love is blind".
 
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mkgal1

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Why would we assume that someone who would break their marriage vows would honor some "agreement"?

Isn't the agreement we make on our wedding day enough? (obviously, it isn't, but adding more layers of agreement and more stipulations and more scenarios to cover doesn't seem to be the answer to me).
It doesn't seem to be the answer to me either. What so many seem to be suggesting is an agreement in addition to the vows made on the wedding day. Maybe it is just a few of us, or maybe I should only speak for myself........but, when the pastor said, on my wedding day, "these vows are made to each other and to God..." I took that to be literal.....that I was promising God I would do all those things. When we are spitting mad at our spouses.....we STILL have our promise made to God to deal with......if someone is going to take THAT lightly....then certainly any paper agreement is going to be useless. Like I said earlier....who would even WANT to force their spouse to stay against their will? Isn't that bordering on some form of legalized kidnapping?
 
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mkgal1

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I know some of you have heard me going on about the marriage contract or agreement thing, and I'm sure some of you think that it is my sense of caution about being hurt again, and there is an element of truth in that.

As I'm thinking about it I'm not so sure that being more thoughtful about marriage is a bad thing. We talk about how young people should be when they get married, the conditions under which divorce should be acceptable, how to conduct yourself in a second marriage and so on.

I think that having stuff written down mutually would help me, anyway. I like the idea of knowing what I might expect from a future spouse and what she would expect of me.I like the idea that it could suit our particular marriage and have within it the possibility of adaptation to future concerns.

But I also think it could help others, from people of different faiths, people who marry very young, people reconsidering what marriage has come to mean after years of marriage, to people who didn't think sex would be a big issue to people who didn't think that they needed a mutual agreement on whether to have children.

It's good to have things written down, but sometimes it's not a real good idea to hold someone to every little detail of what they said at a certain time in their lives. People change. Their ideals change. Their priorities change. Life happens and you shouldn't be held to a set of standards that you thought were ideal at the time.

Communication is better. But that's just my opinion.

I don't think we are talking about extra things to be held up. To me, it is more like clarification of what is meant by those vows.
You're right Rom8....I had misunderstood...sorry. I think I get what you mean McS....and I do agree to a certain extent. I do think that it is very helpful to hear out our (well....YOUR....since I am already married) future spouses expectations. What they imagine, when they say things like....."we will have a 'close' family"....or "we will always love each other"...."we will help one another....through life".....what does that LOOK like to them?

I also agree with C1ners....that it is good, but shouldn't be held to such strict lines that if an unexpected illness comes up......or any other sort of unexpected scenarios arise, the couple is caught off guard. We should be promising to give what it takes, but there should be a balance, or some sort of picture as to what the other person wants....or imagines....just to alleviate the "Well....I thought you KNEW"s from happening.

People don't seem to share their visions (or dreams...however you want to phrase that) much anymore....Maybe with all this " (gasp) that is selfish" talk, people are afraid to....but, what is selfish about two people, that are committing their lives to one another, wanting to be compatible for that life time? Don't both "win" in that?
 
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You're right Rom8....I had misunderstood...sorry. I think I get what you mean McS....and I do agree to a certain extent. I do think that it is very helpful to hear out our (well....YOUR....since I am already married) future spouses expectations. What they imagine, when they say things like....."we will have a 'close' family"....or "we will always love each other"...."we will help one another....through life".....what does that LOOK like to them?

I also agree with C1ners....that it is good, but shouldn't be held to such strict lines that if an unexpected illness comes up......or any other sort of unexpected scenarios arise, the couple is caught off guard. We should be promising to give what it takes, but there should be a balance, or some sort of picture as to what the other person wants....or imagines....just to alleviate the "Well....I thought you KNEW"s from happening.

People don't seem to share their visions (or dreams...however you want to phrase that) much anymore....Maybe with all this " (gasp) that is selfish" talk, people are afraid to....but, what is selfish about two people, that are committing their lives to one another, wanting to be compatible for that life time? Don't both "win" in that?

In a way I am glad for Created that she and her husband had the character to stop and humble themselves. And in a way I agree that good communication is very important.

Im not looking for a fail safe. I know there are no guarantees. I have to say though that someone professing faith isn't a guarantee either, neither is good communication.

In a way a lot of the comments are very revealing. Marriage today only works if both people want it to.
 
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mkgal1

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Marriage today only works if both people want it to.
:amen:

I guess if I had the ability to do it over again (to go back in time, I mean)......I would ask the question, "Why do you want to get married? Specifically to me?" That seems to cut right to intentions, as much as possible. Answers like, "Because....I LOVE you." Wouldn't be enough....I would want something more...descriptive (knowing what I now know).
 
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c1ners

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How do you know the person your talking to or having this written agreement with isn't lying through their teeth to begin with? Once you're married you're stuck and they know that. They'll say or do anything they think you want them to in order to get what they want and once they've gotten it, all beats are off.

You can't guarantee that someone will hold true to their word. EVER! Not even someone who calls themselves a Christian.

I'm bitter today. sorry :(
 
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JaneFW

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C1ners, I understand and get your bitterness. I just had a text from my h half an hour ago to ask me if I was seeing someone else. I almost laughed. This was because I didn't respond to a text where he didn't even ask me question, he was just commenting about some stuff. Hello? I'm busy .. so I asked him "why, are you?" and got no response!! Sometimes I hate being married SO much. If I was single, I wouldn't even have to think about this crap.
 
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dallasapple

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C1ners, I understand and get your bitterness. I just had a text from my h half an hour ago to ask me if I was seeing someone else. I almost laughed. This was because I didn't respond to a text where he didn't even ask me question, he was just commenting about some stuff. Hello? I'm busy .. so I asked him "why, are you?" and got no response!! Sometimes I hate being married SO much. If I was single, I wouldn't even have to think about this crap.


(((HUGS))))

Hes probably paranoid because if he were you he would probably be seeing someone else.... :(

Like "if I were married to ME???I would be having an affair or filing for divorce".

Dallas
 
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FaithPrevails

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How do you know the person your talking to or having this written agreement with isn't lying through their teeth to begin with? Once you're married you're stuck and they know that. They'll say or do anything they think you want them to in order to get what they want and once they've gotten it, all beats are off.

You can't guarantee that someone will hold true to their word. EVER! Not even someone who calls themselves a Christian.

I'm bitter today. sorry :(

I don't see this as bitter, I see it as realistic.

This thread is a great example of the addage that a good marriage takes hard work and communication.

We can and should expose as many areas of possible contention in the dating phase as possible and have ways of dealing with issues as they arise in plase before they arise.

But, life is fluid and people do grow/change over time. Sometimes for the best, sometimes for the worst...and other times they simply stagnate.

Hope for the best, expect the worst. It's a cliche, but it's an accurate one, IMO.

Note - if the worst happens, though, I don't think that automatically translates to losing hope in God's ability to work things for His greater good. The rest of my thoughts are already known on this aspect, so I will the extra typing here.
 
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How do you know the person your talking to or having this written agreement with isn't lying through their teeth to begin with? Once you're married you're stuck and they know that. They'll say or do anything they think you want them to in order to get what they want and once they've gotten it, all beats are off.

You can't guarantee that someone will hold true to their word. EVER! Not even someone who calls themselves a Christian.

I'm bitter today. sorry :(

No, you're right. It's not like Christianity itself doesn't have a very checkered past after all. Our faith, at the end of the day is about our own integrity and our own relationship with God.

There are many times when I think that I will never remarry. But I think that both you and I felt that in a way we had to marry the people we did.You were in so much pain you didn't care what happened to you, you felt you deserved to be mistreated. And I admit that I had misgivings, but she had told me that she feared that everyone would abandon her who claimed to love her, and I already loved the kids. But most of all I couldn't bear to face the idea that I could be the kind of person who would turn my back on her and the kids.

I think people like you and I need to accept Gods forgiveness and acceptance and love even though we struggle with that. We need to accept that God sees us as His children, and that we are created in His image, loved and blessed.
 
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mkgal1

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How do you know the person your talking to or having this written agreement with isn't lying through their teeth to begin with? Once you're married you're stuck and they know that. They'll say or do anything they think you want them to in order to get what they want and once they've gotten it, all beats are off.

You can't guarantee that someone will hold true to their word. EVER! Not even someone who calls themselves a Christian.

I'm bitter today. sorry :(
I don't see that as bitter either....:hug:.

If it appears that someone has lied through their teeth....I think that ought to be addressed right away (then with a 3rd party to confirm it or not). Just because one is married....doesn't mean it is irrevocable....especially if it was based on a blatant lie (not a popular belief....I realize that.) In other areas....that is without a doubt called "fraud".
 
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mkgal1

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No, you're right. It's not like Christianity itself doesn't have a very checkered past after all. Our faith, at the end of the day is about our own integrity and our own relationship with God.
"Christianity" in name only. There are MANY people that link themselves with Christ that have NOTHING to do with His principles--that is where the checkered past comes from....and all the hurts we see....not from God.
 
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Yet another mostly blind post; I skimmed.

On "contracts," I want to say that hubby Mike and I created a prenup for one reason only.

I am disabled and should have had my college debt cancelled as a result, filled out the paperwork, and did get tax refunds after that instead of having it withheld for the debt. However, suddenly they started withholding refunds again, saying they have no record that I had the debt cancelled. I sent the proof and have not had a collection call since, but the reason for the prenup was, I don't want them coming after Mike for a debt I incurred decades before we ever met. I don't want them garnishing HIS wages, or taking the refund on the taxes HE paid. If I'm ever able to return to work, they can garnish or withhold my income all they want, but I don't want them touching his.

So we drafted a legal document declaring our assets and liabilities, and stated that each does not lay claim to the other. The side result is that if we ever divorce, I don't get the house or anything else that's on the "his asset" list, but we don't anticipate that ever happening. The important thing is, if something happens to me, they won't ever be able to take anything from him in payment for my cancelled and reinstated and recancelled debt.

Now, as for my personal opinion on marriage, I'd like to see some sort of class or other training as a prerequisite for getting a license. You have to pass a test to get a driver's license, so I think you should have to pass a test for a marriage license as well.
 
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