Personal Responsibility

[TheMissus]

Temporary insanity isn't a valid excuse for much of anything, IMO. I'm a big fan of the states that don't allow it as a legal defense as well.

 

[TricksterWolf]

Temporary insanity isn't a valid excuse for much of anything, IMO. I'm a big fan of the states that don't allow it as a legal defense as well.

It's a good defense in a very rare set of cases. I wasn't referring to the defense, though. I was referring to a reason that someone who has suffered severe emotional trauma within the past couple of days might not think clearly enough to make the right decision. I don't think it's always so clear-cut and easy as people seem to be suggesting.

Trickster

 

[TheMissus]

It's a good defense in a very rare set of cases. I wasn't referring to the defense, though. I was referring to a reason that someone who has suffered severe emotional trauma within the past couple of days might not think clearly enough to make the right decision. I don't think it's always so clear-cut and easy as people seem to be suggesting.

Trickster

It's little wonder Planned Parenthood strongly recommends women stock up on emergency contraception.

 

[Texas Lynn]

...only a maximum of 4% of all abortions performed are those outside of convenience.

We are not in any position to judge which of these situations amount to a sneeringly-labeled "convenience" and which do not.

That means that 96% of the time, a woman(or girl) gets an abortion to get of of the personal responsibility of being a mother.

"Personal responsibility" is up to each individual. Those who abort take all the responsibility in doing so. to label it otherwise is merely rhetoric.

To Christians who support abortions, I hope your ready to answer to the Lord for your support of such practices. The unsaved are already going to answer to the Lord for their refusal of his sacrifice.

There is certainly no obligation whatsoever for Christians or any other groups to take the anti-abortion position. Many are prayerfully pro-choice (see www.rcrc.org ) and are as such no less christian than those on the other side of the issue. To be pro-choice is in no way to be pro-abortion.

 

[The Nihilist]

I think temporary insanity is only a bad defense if someone isn't temporarily insane. It's not my field and I can't intelligently comment, probably like most people here.
I think the question about whether or not abortion is wrong has to do with whether or not one unborn baby is different from another. Is unborn baby X distinguishable in any relevant way from unborn baby Y? I don't think so. Neither has an identity, at least not really. They have no memories, and they have none of the stuff that will give them an identity. I suppose you could say each unborn child has a potential identity, but that's just not enough. Abortion is certainly traumatic and ugly to look at, but I kinda feel like an unborn baby is really just a bunch of tiny body parts.
I feel like I will not get many blessings for this one.

 

[mpshiel]

I would take a position on responsibility more seriously if the Christian community were as interested in rape, spousal rape (which is usually discussed as "Her body belongs to me according to the bible" on this board), sexual abuse and incest.

It would be nice if there were as many adament Christian groups, leaflets, sermons, enthusiasm and devotion to bringing to the open a culture (which includes if not is typified by aspects of current organizational Christian denominations) in which women and their bodies are defacto perpetrators due to "male desire".

It appears however that the church has decided that men are somehow by nature uncontrollable, but perhaps women are. That the potential for life (or a few spliting cells) is presented as sacred, but guarding the quality of it is not.

And while my legally married partner and I are not likely to have an abortion as it would cost us thousands to get the anonymous sperm in the first place; I would not stand up as Christian and demand to make other people's choices for them, while avoiding the responsiblity of the consequences. The US has the highest number of children up for adoption in the western world, the highest per capita, the highest unwanted pregnacy rate. There are couples, gay and straight, throughout Europe and Canada begging for children to adopt, but the US will not allow that to happen. Nor, does the prodominately Christian population seem to have a solution to the over 1/2 a million adoptable children already in the system except to repeat "not on my doorstep".

If you wish to "solve" what you do not want other people doing by making it illegal, why stop there. I am sure making out of wedlock teenage sex illegal will be just as successful in eliminating the occurance of teenage sex (as in, not!), and can replace the current effective Christian policy of "good girls don't" which is then followed by putting the hands over the ears and going "la la la la la la I can't hear you, la la la" when the stats continue to roll in (like how a "silver ring thing" pledge is MORE likely to end up getting you with....tada an unwanted pregnancy).

 

[SallyNow]

I would take a position on responsibility more seriously if the Christian community were as interested in rape, spousal rape (which is usually discussed as "Her body belongs to me according to the bible" on this board), sexual abuse and incest.

It would be nice if there were as many adament Christian groups, leaflets, sermons, enthusiasm and devotion to bringing to the open a culture (which includes if not is typified by aspects of current organizational Christian denominations) in which women and their bodies are defacto perpetrators due to "male desire".

It appears however that the church has decided that men are somehow by nature uncontrollable, but perhaps women are. That the potential for life (or a few spliting cells) is presented as sacred, but guarding the quality of it is not.

And while my legally married partner and I are not likely to have an abortion as it would cost us thousands to get the anonymous sperm in the first place; I would not stand up as Christian and demand to make other people's choices for them, while avoiding the responsiblity of the consequences. The US has the highest number of children up for adoption in the western world, the highest per capita, the highest unwanted pregnacy rate. There are couples, gay and straight, throughout Europe and Canada begging for children to adopt, but the US will not allow that to happen. Nor, does the prodominately Christian population seem to have a solution to the over 1/2 a million adoptable children already in the system except to repeat "not on my doorstep".

If you wish to "solve" what you do not want other people doing by making it illegal, why stop there. I am sure making out of wedlock teenage sex illegal will be just as successful in eliminating the occurance of teenage sex (as in, not!), and can replace the current effective Christian policy of "good girls don't" which is then followed by putting the hands over the ears and going "la la la la la la I can't hear you, la la la" when the stats continue to roll in (like how a "silver ring thing" pledge is MORE likely to end up getting you with....tada an unwanted pregnancy).

...I already tried discussing the male participation in pregnancy, but it was ignored.

The real reasons behind abortion are often tragic and that doesn't fit into the nice, clean-cut world of "it's all the woman's fault, she should suffer" point of view. It does have a place in the majority of views within both the pro-choice and pro-life positions, but those just aren't as interesting to talk about.

Perhaps if more men took responsibility for protecting themselves against getting women pregnant, perhaps if the culture shifted from insisting boys lose their virgininity by 16 to instead insisting boys wait until they are men, perhaps if we just started respected and supporting each other more, abortion would not be such a big issue.

But those are all a lot harder than sitting and saying how those who have abortions are sinning way worse than anyone else.