Personal Responsibility

[Yusuf Evans]

Abortion. I abhore the practice, and that's why I'm pro-life. The cases for abortion are it's a woman's right. A woman isn't a woman unless she can have an abortion, etc.... However, only a maximum of 4% of all abortions performed are those outside of convenience. That means that 96% of the time, a woman(or girl) gets an abortion to get of of the personal responsibility of being a mother.

I used to be pro-choice, and fully supported abortions. That all changed once we had my first born. My wife and I were dating at the time, and I had plans to get out of the Marine Corps to join the U.S. Marshals. She came up pregnant, and we agreed to get an abortion. We got to the doctor's office and saw the picture of my son when he was only 6 weeks old in the womb. From then on, I vowed to never again support abortion as a matter of convenience for anyone.

Now, you have two options in regards to sex: Either a)wrap it(or make the partner wrap it), or b) don't have sex at all. Using the easy way out is a trait that goes on with you in life. To Christians who support abortions, I hope your ready to answer to the Lord for your support of such practices. The unsaved are already going to answer to the Lord for their refusal of his sacrifice.

 

[Mirelys]

Now, you have two options in regards to sex: Either a)wrap it(or make the partner wrap it), or b) don't have sex at all.

Unless you're raped and don't have a choice in it at all.
On the topic of abortion, people seem to want to focus on one situation (the healthy woman who gets pregnant from consensual sexual contact), and too bad for all the rest, hmm?

 

[Yusuf Evans]

Unless you're raped and don't have a choice in it at all.

I'm always thrilled to see you pro-abortionists always throw in that we pro-life do not care for a raped woman. The focus of this OP is on those who have consensual sex, not rape. Always read everything very carefully.

 

[Mirelys]

I'm always thrilled to see you pro-abortionists always throw in that we pro-life do not care for a raped woman. The focus of this OP is on those who have consensual sex, not rape. Always read everything very carefully.

I did read carefully, and I noticed that you're not condemning the practice so much as the state of mind of the woman getting the abortion. I think that's interesting.
By the way, where are your statistics from? Linky?

 

[Konkurrent]

I'm not sure what sets this thread apart from any of the other pre-existing threads about abortion. Furthermore, the OP poses no questions and therefore does not actually set the focus of the discussion that is expected to follow.

And for the record, fewer abortions are the result of a rape than there are ectopic pregnancies. (Ectopic pregnancies occur about 1% of the time, whereas less than 1% of all abortions are pregnacies caused by rape.) So it's such a small number as to be negligable for the purposes of any discussion.

It's dirty pool, to be honest. It plays the victim card and forces the opposition to walk on egg shells lest they be labeled "evil" because they didn't do whatever the rape victim says they should do.

Rape is a problem. Statistically, rape-induced pregnancies just aren't significant, however.

 

[Mirelys]

I'm not sure what sets this thread apart from any of the other pre-existing threads about abortion. Furthermore, the OP poses no questions and therefore does not actually set the focus of the discussion that is expected to follow.

And for the record, fewer abortions are the result of a rape than there are ectopic pregnancies. (Ectopic pregnancies occur about 1% of the time, whereas less than 1% of all abortions are pregnacies caused by rape.) So it's such a small number as to be negligable for the purposes of any discussion.

It's dirty pool, to be honest. It plays the victim card and forces the opposition to walk on egg shells lest they be labeled "evil" because they didn't do whatever the rape victim says they should do.

Rape is a problem. Statistically, rape-induced pregnancies just aren't significant, however.

In an ethics discussion, it doesn't matter. All cases need to be discussed and accounted for.

 

[Konkurrent]

In an ethics discussion, it doesn't matter. All cases need to be discussed and accounted for.

Plan B accounts for them. Done.

 

[Mirelys]

Plan B accounts for them. Done.

What about those situations where Plan B is not available?
For example, there was an article in the local newspaper about a woman here who was raped, but because she was afraid to report it to the police, she could only get Plan B from her doctor. She got a prescription, but was unable to find a pharmacy that would fill it.
I too was in a situation at one time where I wasn't able to get medical help, but it didn't end up being necessary (thank God).

 

[Konkurrent]

What about those situations where Plan B is not available?
For example, there was an article in the local newspaper about a woman here who was raped, but because she was afraid to report it to the police, she could only get Plan B from her doctor. She got a prescription, but was unable to find a pharmacy that would fill it.
I too was in a situation at one time where I wasn't able to get medical help, but it didn't end up being necessary (thank God).

Plan B is available over the counter, and Planned Parenthood will ship it to you overnight if necessary.

Can we, for once, not have an abortion thread that gets completely thread-jacked by the wailing cries of "what about the rape victims"?

They're taken care of if they want to be taken care of.

 

[Mirelys]

Plan B is available over the counter, and Planned Parenthood will ship it to you overnight if necessary.

Can we, for once, not have an abortion thread that gets completely thread-jacked by the wailing cries of "what about the rape victims"?

They're taken care of if they want to be taken care of.

Available over-the-counter where? Not here as far as I know...but I just moved to this state.

Let's go for "If they want to be taken care of and have a frickin' clue there's resources, AND are in a situation where they can take advantage of said resources."

But okay. We can talk about only the allowed situation, even though it has little to do with real life

 

[Mirelys]

Plan B is available over the counter, and Planned Parenthood will ship it to you overnight if necessary.

Not over-the-counter yet, it looks like, but hopefully by the end of the year...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/24/AR2006082400559.html

 

[bammertheblue]

Ok...let's forget the rape case.

It's a person's right to decide what goes on in their body, and that comes down to when/why/how to give birth...or not give birth.
Maybe I'm simple-minded, but the idea of the government telling me I HAVE to deliver a child freaks me out. Seems like overstepping their bounds...That's what it all boils down to for me.
I'm pro-choice. Kal, It sounds great that you and your wife decided to have your son- that makes me smile (hard to do when I just woke up 20 minutes ago!) All the pro-choice movement asks is that you trust women. Trust them to make the choices that are right for them and their bodies and their lives. Sometimes, like with your wife, you'll like the choice they make. Sometimes you won't. I'm sorry to say, it's just not always up to you.

 

[Mirelys]

Ok...let's forget the rape case.

It's a person's right to decide what goes on in their body, and that comes down to when/why/how to give birth...or not give birth.
Maybe I'm simple-minded, but the idea of the government telling me I HAVE to deliver a child freaks me out. Seems like overstepping their bounds...That's what it all boils down to for me.

Yep, exactly.

If we're talking about "Should abortion be legal?" then the question to ask is "Does the government have the right to make laws about what goes on in your body?"

If we're talking about "Is abortion moral?" then consent matters very little when weighed against a human life (if a fetus is deemed so).

 

[CSmrw]

Abortion is repugnant to me, but government intrusion into the matter is completely unacceptable. Freedom trumps fetus.

 

[gwenmead]

Kal, do you really think that most women abort because of a lack of personal responsibility?

Honestly?

 

[TheMissus]

Statistically, most women abort because they got pregnant and didn't want to be pregnant. They did somethng and don't want the consequences of their actions.

 

[Mirelys]

Statistically, most women abort because they got pregnant and didn't want to be pregnant. They did somethng and don't want the consequences of their actions.

Whose statistics? I keep hearing about them, but I never see them.

 

[TheMissus]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Reasons for abortion:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Wants to postpone childbearing: 25.5% [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Wants no (more) children: 7.9% [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]
Cannot afford a baby: 21.3% [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]
Having a child will disrupt education or job: 10.8% [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Has relationship problem or partner does not want pregnancy: 14.1% [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Too young; parent(s) or other(s) object to pregnancy: 12.2% [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Risk to maternal health: 2.8% [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Risk to fetal health: 3.3% [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Other: 2.1% [Bankole, Akinrinola; Singh, Susheela; Haas, Taylor. "Reasons Why Women Have Induced Abortions: Evidence from 27 Countries." International Family Planning Perspectives, 1998, 24(3)] [/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]There were 1.31 million abortions in the U.S. in 2000 [Alan Guttmacher Institute][/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Cases of rape or incest accounted for 1.0% of abortions in 2000 [Alan Guttmacher Institute][/FONT][/FONT]

http://www.georgetown.edu/faculty/ap85/001/2004/reasonsForAbortion.html

 

[gwenmead]

Well, here's some info, from the Guttmacher Institute. Here's another set of data.

A Google search reveals plenty of stats on abortion, both with and without bias (religious, partisan, or otherwise). The CDC has recent stats on number of abortions by state (as of 2002), but not specific reasons.

I suppose the most obvious reason why anyone would abort is because they don't want to be pregnant - but the reasons why someone wouldn't want to be pregnant are varied, as the numbers show. Socio-economic factors seem prominent, though not exclusive.

"Lack of personal responsibility" does not seem to be a reason given by a majority of women polled. I will give said women the benefit of the doubt and assume they know better than I do what their reasons are, and whether or not they were being "irresponsible" by choosing to terminate their pregnancies.

 

[TheMissus]

Ultimately, personal responsibility should be in the form of birth control. I strongly believe that greater birth control education and access would work wonders for reducing abortions. My greatest issue with many abortions is the "oops, I'm pregnant, better go to the clinic" mentality. The women who end up getting multiple abortions really get to me. Abortion as birth control is what I take issues with, not abortion overall.

In terms of the other reasons, the "too young" reason irritates me as well. If a girl is too young to be having a baby, she shouldn't be having sex at all.

Of course, "should woulda coulda" doesn't accomplish much. I don't know what the solution is, except a greater focus on birth control.

Thanks for the links, Gwen. It's good to have several sources to get a better idea of accuracy and differences in poll samples.