[PERMANENTLY CLOSED] A question for those who.....

[Davian]

You will see how serious it is one day. One day you will know that God created you. It wont be funny then.

Scare tactic fail.

 

[bhsmte]

No, i already explained it. I believe God created the universe. I believe he is the hidden force that science cannot see. So you believe that when we die, there is no soul, no spirit that lives on after death?

What empirical evidence supports your theory.

What predictions does your theory make?

 

[bhsmte]

Ok, correct me then, what medicines have the evolution theory gave us? Its my understanding that genetics and study of human anatomy along with cell research have provided those things. What is this evolution theory anyway? I was under the impression that is was the origin of species and how they evolve over the years. How does that help us curte disease and create medicine?

Why don't you ask this guy, who happens to be a devout Christian, physician and former head of the human genome project:

Karl Giberson: One of the things I appreciate a lot about Darrel Falk, who I think is a courageous voice in this conversation, is that he will come out and say that common ancestry is simply a fact. And that if you’re not willing to concede that the genetic evidence points to common ancestry than you’re essentially denying the field of biology the possibility of having facts at all. That’s the strong language that he uses.

Would you say that common ancestry and evolution in general is at that level? How compelling is the evidence at this point?

Francis Collins: The evidence is overwhelming. And it is becoming more and more robust down to the details almost by the day, especially because we have this ability now to use the study of DNA as a digital record of the way Darwin’s theory has played out over the course of long periods of time.

Darwin could hardly have imagined that there would turn out to be such strong proof of his theory because he didn’t know about DNA - but we have that information. I would say we are as solid in claiming the truth of evolution as we are in claiming the truth of the germ theory. It is so profoundly well-documented in multiple different perspectives, all of which give you a consistent view with enormous explanatory power that make it the central core of biology. Trying to do biology without evolution would be like trying to do physics without mathematics

http://biologos.org/blog/francis-collins-and-karl-giberson-talk-about-evolution-and-the-church-2

 

[Archaeopteryx]

So: If you can't understand it, no one can or ever will.

This is a persistent problem.

 

[Chany]

Did you know that there used to be a General Apologetics forum? Now it is forbidden. Why do you suppose that is? There is a Christian Apologetics forum, and only Christians may post there.

I am aware of why that was taken down and why it is no longer allowed here. Although, surprisingly, philosophy of religion is still allowed. As long as we talk about the traditional philosophy of religion discussions in a general manner, we can argue about the cosmological argument all we want.

 

[paulm50]

Genetic study is highly interpretive and easily misunderstood. They once told us the world was flat too and everyone believed that, but it was not true. THe evolution theory has not produced any medicines, neither has the BB theory. You seem to be reaching. Science cant even begin to understand the complexity of genetics. We are closely related to pigs but science says we don't evolve from them. They say we came from chimps. Do you actually believe that? Dinosaur bones last 65 million years, and humans evolved from chimpanzee. No sir, i cannot rationally believe those things.

There's a mountain of evidence you need to read. You're s wrong it's pointless until you read up on the subjects.

Evolution is no longer a theory.

 

[paulm50]

I don't care what they say, it seems improbable that those fossils are 65 million years old. Its improbable that humans are 2 hundred thousands years old and that they came from Chimpanzee.

You yourself can find fossils in rocks. Not sure where you live but I'm sure there's areas near you that contain them.

It's proven 2 million years ago the early hominids were a branch of the Ape family. The evidence is so overwhelming I wonder where you get your information from.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

I am aware of why that was taken down and why it is no longer allowed here. Although, surprisingly, philosophy of religion is still allowed. As long as we talk about the traditional philosophy of religion discussions in a general manner, we can argue about the cosmological argument all we want.

It was taken down because the Christians kept losing...

 

[asherahSamaria]

You will see how serious it is one day. One day you will know that God created you. It wont be funny then.

Scare tactic fail confirmation.

 

[plummyy]

Why is it that you think you can determine what is meaningful and purposeful in your life, but when it comes to the Christian, you want to deny Christians the right to follow the examples of Jesus and His disciples if they find meaning and purpose in doing so?

You have not been inhibited. You're able to ask such a question without worry, aren't you? We (who?) don't have the power to 'deny' you anything, just as you will never have the applicable control to deny us our own thoughts, either. My omniscient power is still lagging when it comes sneering "no-o" and taking away your ability to believe what you do. Only someone like a god could actively deny something like your thoughts to you. And no amount of me saying "those crazy Christians" will ever chip, or should ever, chip away at your beliefs---and beliefs are hard to come by, you know. You can't create them for someone and you certainly cannot take them away.

Something had to be at the very beginning. For something to be at the very beginning, then that thing itself had to be without beginning. However, how can something have no beginning? The answer is that only the supreme being can have no beginning.

You're right, something did. But this is the never-ending cycle of trying to break even with the concept that space is endless to a species that builds 'dead-end' roads. It's mind boggling, truly. But there is no logic in saying that everything has a beginning, besides. Especially when you reach that ledge and jump to the easiest conclusion that there could possibly be. And trust me--I'm not trying to discount you, but it's rather... simple, don't you think, to stamp an all-powerful-being on whatever doesn't make sense? A god can do anything, and if you can believe that a god could snap it's fingers and create a universe, then all your questions are answered at once. You're able to reach for: "I wouldn't be able to understand it anyway, because god doesn't play by the rules that I could comprehend, and god can do anything". That's yours to do with what you want, take it, I don't mind. But some of us can't help but question the concept of the creator's origin if there should be a creator.

We cannot possibly prove that God doesn't exist, and to suggest otherwise is not logical or scientific.

You're absolutely right, and scientists agree with you.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Actually it is to point out the duplicity and hypocrisy a lot of people are guilty of when they on one hand will not affirm the existence of God but yet want to live as if God does exist.

You make no sense at all.
Every atheist I know lives as if god does not exist.
Just like everyone I know who doesn't believe in Santa lives as if Santa does not exist.

What are you on about?

 

[Poster0]

It's proven 2 million years ago the early hominids were a branch of the Ape family. The evidence is so overwhelming I wonder where you get your information from.

I believe that the evidence you are referring to is not evidence at all but more of a fantasy science.

 

[DogmaHunter]

If you don't do it then it does not apply to you.

Thanks.

So, who DOES it apply to?

You address "the atheists" and, apparantly, it doesn't apply to any atheists participating in this thread.

So which atheists are you talking about then?
Got any specific examples of such people on this site?

 

[Freodin]

There's a mountain of evidence you need to read. You're s wrong it's pointless until you read up on the subjects.

Evolution is no longer a theory.

Don't go this way. Evolution is still a theory. This term just has a slightly different meaning for scientist than it has for creationists.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Its you who misrepresent. Define truth statement.

A truth statement is a claim, a factual statement:
- X exists.
- Y is bigger then Z
- A is red
- X does not exist
...

Does that mean a belief that something is true?

No, a belief is not the same as a statement.
The statement is "X is Y"
And you can believe that statement or not.

The belief is not the statement.
The statement is not the belief.

If so then Atheism believes there is no Deity (God) so it is a truth statement, but not a truthful statement.

No, that's not what atheism is.

Atheism is a position on the statement "god(s) exist"
The position that atheism takes on that is disbelief.

An atheist is not convinced that that statement is true.
Atheism is NOT the statement "god does not exist".

(Im my belief). Why are you guys trying to change word definitions to justify your debate?

Says the guy who actually tries to redefine what atheism is....

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Don't go this way. Evolution is still a theory. This term just has a slightly different meaning for scientist than it has for creationists.

If you want to get super anal about it, evolution is both a theory and a fact.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Clearly i do. I know they work on mathematics but that doesn't disprove what i have said at all. I haven't said that the BB theory is false, i only theorized that it was God who caused that big bang. Can mathematics prove he did not? Nope, and thats why science says that it doesn't know what the singularity is, where it came from, or where it is at now.

Can you prove that it wasn't the undetectable 7-headed cookie monster that caused it?


(ps: it's called the burden of proof, you should read about it sometime)

 

[Freodin]

I believe that the evidence you are referring to is not evidence at all but more of a fantasy science.

When you first posted here in this thread, you went on about the affirmation of existence of a deity being more rational and scientific than the doubt in a deity.

I even mentioned that I considered the ideas you posted then as worthy of discussion.

Now you have gone into the classic creationist schema of simply denying anything that science does provide, misrepresenting science, making ignorant statements about the topic at hand, ignoring any kind of information or questions that don't fit into your position. Shamefur dispray!

 

[Poster0]

You have not been inhibited. You're able to ask such a question without worry, aren't you? We (who?) don't have the power to 'deny' you anything, just as you will never have the applicable control to deny us our own thoughts, either. My omniscient power is still lagging when it comes sneering "no-o" and taking away your ability to believe what you do. Only someone like a god could actively deny something like your thoughts to you. And no amount of me saying "those crazy Christians" will ever chip, or should ever, chip away at your beliefs---and beliefs are hard to come by, you know. You can't create them for someone and you certainly cannot take them away.



You're right, something did. But this is the never-ending cycle of trying to break even with the concept that space is endless to a species that builds 'dead-end' roads. It's mind boggling, truly. But there is no logic in saying that everything has a beginning, besides. Especially when you reach that ledge and jump to the easiest conclusion that there could possibly be. And trust me--I'm not trying to discount you, but it's rather... simple, don't you think, to stamp an all-powerful-being on whatever doesn't make sense? A god can do anything, and if you can believe that a god could snap it's fingers and create a universe, then all your questions are answered at once. You're able to reach for: "I wouldn't be able to understand it anyway, because god doesn't play by the rules that I could comprehend, and god can do anything". That's yours to do with what you want, take it, I don't mind. But some of us can't help but question the concept of the creator's origin if there should be a creator.



You're absolutely right, and scientists agree with you.

Thanks for your honest reply. You admit that its mind boggling and that science doesn't understand it all. I agree that its very complex. Im not discounting science and i happen to like science. I find scientific knowledge fascinating. WE use science everyday in many ways. I'm not a scientist but i do enjoy things that we discover through scientific investigation. Things like metallurgy for example. I'm fascinated with how man forges steel, and with the heat treating process of annealing, hardening and tempering carbon steel. IT's something i enjoy learning about. I dont think God just snapped his fingers and things magically appeared, but he created them. I do believe in God, i believe he created us and that we have a purpose outside this natural world which is far more exciting and full of wonder than this world is. I believe that God leads me in his truth, to seek him spiritually, not naturally. IF i am wrong then it really doesn't matter because the alternative is that there is no eternal life and that God doesn't exist. I will die after living a very short life and there will be nothing left for me or of me. If im right though, and God is leading me, then my future is promising, i have eternal life to look forward to. Where would the first scientists be without some measure of faith? They didn't always understand what to look for or what they may find, but they followed something that was in their heart and mind and eventually discovered what they were looking for. That's all im doing, im following what God has put in my heart and mind, and i do believe i am on a great path of discovery that will lead me to understand the meaning to life itself, and to find my purpose and find fulfillment.

 

[Poster0]

When you first posted here in this thread, you went on about the affirmation of existence of a deity being more rational and scientific than the doubt in a deity.

I even mentioned that I considered the ideas you posted then as worthy of discussion.

Now you have gone into the classic creationist schema of simply denying anything that science does provide, misrepresenting science, making ignorant statements about the topic at hand, ignoring any kind of information or questions that don't fit into your position. Shamefur dispray!

Im sorry but i do believe that much of the study in evolution is just fantasy. Im not trying be a creationist hardliner, its just what i believe.