Perfection

[dreadnought]

Mat 19:21 Christ Jesus speaking

"Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me."

Forgive me...

I don't think that verse was meant as an excuse to sin.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I don't think that verse was meant as an excuse to sin.

What?

Forgive me...

 

[dreadnought]

From the Orthodox Point of View;

To be perfect is to be "fully" human as we were created. Our model: Jesus Christ

That would be in keeping with Wordkeeper's "complete", wouldn't it?

Coffee is ready!

Forgive me...

I think it is simpler than this. When we sin, we get ourselves into trouble. If we refrain from sin, we avoid that trouble. Why wouldn't we want to be perfect, anyway?

 

[dreadnought]

Pretending that we do not continue sinning is a human construct using cherry picked scriptures as support. While ignoring the truth of our common history.

Fighting against our sins daily is Christian.

Giving continual lifetime confessions is Christian.

How could this be if we don't sin anymore after we are "saved"?

Falling from salvation is a real possibility, so much so, that a great deal of scripture is devoted to warning us.

Forgive me...

The Lord gave us commandments to obey. If we succeed in obeying them, we succeed in obeying them.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I think it is simpler than this. When we sin, we get ourselves into trouble. If we refrain from sin, we avoid that trouble. Why wouldn't we want to be perfect, anyway?

The way mankind was created was deathless.

Forgive me...

 

[dreadnought]

What?

Forgive me...

I said, "I don't think that verse was meant as an excuse to sin."

 

[dreadnought]

The way mankind was created was deathless.

Forgive me...

I don't know what you mean by that, but I do think the Lord gave us commandments to obey so we would stay out of trouble.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I said, "I don't think that verse was meant as an excuse to sin."

Neither do I. That would be quite a leap.

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I don't know what you mean by that, but I do think the Lord gave us commandments to obey so we would stay out of trouble.

Not planning on dying?

Forgive me...

 

[dreadnought]

From the Orthodox Point of View;

To be perfect is to be "fully" human as we were created. Our model: Jesus Christ

That would be in keeping with Wordkeeper's "complete", wouldn't it?

Coffee is ready!

Forgive me...

Neither do I. That would be quite a leap.

Forgive me...

The Lord gave us commandments so we'd stay out of trouble. I believe being perfect means obeying those commandments. I don't think being perfect means being complete, unless being complete means obeying the Lord's commandments.

 

[dreadnought]

Not planning on dying?

Forgive me...

I just got into an argument with someone about dying. There is death and then there is death. We die a death on earth but we go on living.

 

[Jenniferdiana]

Well God is holy so we should be holy too..

 

[-Luca]

Repentance involves a change of mind and direction. There were times in the Old Testament where God changed His mind and repented either of a judgment He was going to bring on a group of people, or, in the case of King Saul, repented that He had made him king. It was not because God had sinned in any way. It was that He reversed a previous decision and changed His direction about how He was going to act in a particular situation.

Repentance for the unbeliever is a change of attitude toward Christ and a change of direction from a life of rebellion against God to a life glorifying to Christ. The use the word repentance to describe a sorrow for sin and the desire to stop sinning, it not quite an accurate application of the word. Repentance happens only once. It happens at conversion.

At conversion our sin is taken from us and put on the cross with Christ, and then buried in the deepest sea of God's forgetfulness never to be revisited. We are then given the righteousness of Christ which makes us perfect in God's attitude to us. That is the perfection that God requires of us.

If we try and be perfect in our own strength, we are acting in unbelief and trying to be self-righteous, which is like a filthy rag in God's sight. Perfection is trusting in the righteousness of Christ which has been given to us by God's grace through our faith in Christ. Along with that, we have been given a new heart that gives us the strong desire to overcome our sinful habit patterns with the help of The Holy Spirit, and to live a life glorifying to Christ.

Thank-you! Was waiting for someone to give a perfect explanation of repentance is. And here it is!

 

[iwbswiaihl2]

I think in context from v48 down talking about love your neighbor, but I say love your enemies and possibly even back farther in the chapter, the contrast is to be like the Father. Being the case we see that no human effort can accomplish that nor what Jesus had said in 5:20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. So to be perfect we must be in Christ by faith which the Pharisees and scribes were railing about. 2 Cor 5:21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

 

[Servant232]

Matthew 24:2 Mark 13:2 Luke 21:6 Until

Update #1

8/4/70 until

9/22/17 ~ YOM TERUAH ~ Day of Shouting, Trumpets
When Is The New Moon – Monthly New Moon Updates and Sightings From Israel

και ως ατενιζοντες ησαν εις τον ουρανον πορευομενου αυτου και ιδου ανδρες δυο παρειστηκεισαν αυτοις εν εσθητι λευκηι

Verse 26934 | Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;


## Word Value
1 και 31
2 ως 1000
3 ατενιζοντες 998
4 ησαν 259
5 εις 215
6 τον 420
7 ουρανον 741
8 πορευομενου 1290
9 αυτου 1171
10 και 31
11 ιδου 484
12 ανδρες 360
13 δυο 474
14 παρειστηκεισαν 990
15 αυτοις 981
16 εν 55
17 εσθητι 532
18 λευκηι 473

-> Total 10505

10505| 1Ch 6:50 And these are the sons of Aaron ("light bringer"); Eleazar ("God has helped") his son, Phinehas ("mouth of brass") his son, Abishua ("my father is salvation") his son, (11)

1) 31st vs. Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. (32) 9/22

2) 311000 ~ 31082| Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. (23)

3) 311000998 ~ 12100| Ezr 3:2 Then stood up Jeshua the son of Jozadak, and his brethren the priests, and Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, and his brethren, and builded the altar of the God of Israel, to offer burnt offerings thereon, as it iswritten in The Torah of Moses the man of God.

4) 311000998259 ~ 1581| Exo 3:1 Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb.

5) 311000998259215 ~ 26115| Joh 2:19 YESHUA answered and said unto them, Destroy this Temple, and in three days I will Raise It up. (21)

6) 311000998259215420 ~ 20842| Eze 17:16 As I Live, saith Adonai YHWH, surely in the place where the king dwelleth that made him king, whose oath he despised, and whose covenant he brake, even with him in the midst of babylon he shall die.

7) 311000998259215420741 ~ 4401| Num 22:25 And when the ass saw the Angel of YHWH, she thrust herself unto the wall, and crushed balaam's foot against the wall: and he smote her again. (47) (4+7) 11

8) 3110009982592154207411290 ~ 1960| Exo 16:12 I have heard the murmurings of the children of Israel: speak unto them, saying, At evening ye shall eat flesh, and in the morning ye shall be filled with bread; and ye shall know that I am YHWH your God.

9) 31100099825921542074112901171 ~ 6911| Jdg 14:1 And Samson went down to Timnath, and saw a woman in Timnath of the daughters of the Philistines.

10) 3110009982592154207411290117131 ~ 6887| Jdg 13:2 And there was a certain man of Zorah ("hornet"), of the family of the Danites ("judge 's'"), whose name was Manoah ("rest"); and his wife was barren, and bare not.

11) 3110009982592154207411290117131484 ~ 13942| Psa 1:2 But his delight is in The Torah of YHWH; and in His Torah doth he meditate day and night.

12) 3110009982592154207411290117131484360 ~ 8664| 2Sa 23:10 He Arose, and smote the philistines until his hand was weary, and his hand clave unto the sword: and YHWH wrought a great victory that day; and the people returned after him only to spoil.

13) 3110009982592154207411290117131484360474 ~ 18118| Isa 24:22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.

14) 3110009982592154207411290117131484360474990 ~ 17626| Sol 6:11 I went down into the garden of nuts (lol) to see the fruits of the valley, (eekers) and to see whether the vine flourished, and the pomegranates budded. 17

15) 3110009982592154207411290117131484360474990981 ~ 23249| Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

16) 311000998259215420741129011713148436047499098155 ~ 23407| Mat 9:27 And when YESHUA departed thence, two blind men followed Him, crying, and saying, Thou Son of David, have Mercy on us.

17) 311000998259215420741129011713148436047499098155532 ~ 18828| Isa 60:6 The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah; all they from Sheba shall come: they shall bring gold and incense; and they shall shew forth the Praises of YHWH.

18) 311000998259215420741129011713148436047499098155532473 ~ 11763| 2Ch 27:7 Now the rest of the acts of Jotham ("YHWH is perfect"), and all his wars, and his ways, lo, they are written in the book of the kings of Israel and Judah. ("YHWH is praised")
~~~~~~~

Will you Declare It? - Now that He has shown It to you.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Well God is holy so we should be holy too..

If we are in Christ, we are holy! God sees us as holy, not in ourselves, but through the righteousness of Christ that He has given us to replace our unholiness. Sanctification is the life-long process to transform our minds and behaviour for us to walk worthy of what God has given us.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Matthew 24:2 Mark 13:2 Luke 21:6 Until

Update #1

8/4/70 until

9/22/17 ~ YOM TERUAH ~ Day of Shouting, Trumpets
When Is The New Moon – Monthly New Moon Updates and Sightings From Israel

και ως ατενιζοντες ησαν εις τον ουρανον πορευομενου αυτου και ιδου ανδρες δυο παρειστηκεισαν αυτοις εν εσθητι λευκηι

Verse 26934 | Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;


## Word Value
1 και 31
2 ως 1000
3 ατενιζοντες 998
4 ησαν 259
5 εις 215
6 τον 420
7 ουρανον 741
8 πορευομενου 1290
9 αυτου 1171
10 και 31
11 ιδου 484
12 ανδρες 360
13 δυο 474
14 παρειστηκεισαν 990
15 αυτοις 981
16 εν 55
17 εσθητι 532
18 λευκηι 473

-> Total 10505

10505| 1Ch 6:50 And these are the sons of Aaron ("light bringer"); Eleazar ("God has helped") his son, Phinehas ("mouth of brass") his son, Abishua ("my father is salvation") his son, (11)

1) 31st vs. Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. (32) 9/22

2) 311000 ~ 31082| Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. (23)

3) 311000998 ~ 12100| Ezr 3:2 Then stood up Jeshua the son of Jozadak, and his brethren the priests, and Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, and his brethren, and builded the altar of the God of Israel, to offer burnt offerings thereon, as it iswritten in The Torah of Moses the man of God.

4) 311000998259 ~ 1581| Exo 3:1 Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb.

5) 311000998259215 ~ 26115| Joh 2:19 YESHUA answered and said unto them, Destroy this Temple, and in three days I will Raise It up. (21)

6) 311000998259215420 ~ 20842| Eze 17:16 As I Live, saith Adonai YHWH, surely in the place where the king dwelleth that made him king, whose oath he despised, and whose covenant he brake, even with him in the midst of babylon he shall die.

7) 311000998259215420741 ~ 4401| Num 22:25 And when the ass saw the Angel of YHWH, she thrust herself unto the wall, and crushed balaam's foot against the wall: and he smote her again. (47) (4+7) 11

8) 3110009982592154207411290 ~ 1960| Exo 16:12 I have heard the murmurings of the children of Israel: speak unto them, saying, At evening ye shall eat flesh, and in the morning ye shall be filled with bread; and ye shall know that I am YHWH your God.

9) 31100099825921542074112901171 ~ 6911| Jdg 14:1 And Samson went down to Timnath, and saw a woman in Timnath of the daughters of the Philistines.

10) 3110009982592154207411290117131 ~ 6887| Jdg 13:2 And there was a certain man of Zorah ("hornet"), of the family of the Danites ("judge 's'"), whose name was Manoah ("rest"); and his wife was barren, and bare not.

11) 3110009982592154207411290117131484 ~ 13942| Psa 1:2 But his delight is in The Torah of YHWH; and in His Torah doth he meditate day and night.

12) 3110009982592154207411290117131484360 ~ 8664| 2Sa 23:10 He Arose, and smote the philistines until his hand was weary, and his hand clave unto the sword: and YHWH wrought a great victory that day; and the people returned after him only to spoil.

13) 3110009982592154207411290117131484360474 ~ 18118| Isa 24:22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.

14) 3110009982592154207411290117131484360474990 ~ 17626| Sol 6:11 I went down into the garden of nuts (lol) to see the fruits of the valley, (eekers) and to see whether the vine flourished, and the pomegranates budded. 17

15) 3110009982592154207411290117131484360474990981 ~ 23249| Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

16) 311000998259215420741129011713148436047499098155 ~ 23407| Mat 9:27 And when YESHUA departed thence, two blind men followed Him, crying, and saying, Thou Son of David, have Mercy on us.

17) 311000998259215420741129011713148436047499098155532 ~ 18828| Isa 60:6 The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah; all they from Sheba shall come: they shall bring gold and incense; and they shall shew forth the Praises of YHWH.

18) 311000998259215420741129011713148436047499098155532473 ~ 11763| 2Ch 27:7 Now the rest of the acts of Jotham ("YHWH is perfect"), and all his wars, and his ways, lo, they are written in the book of the kings of Israel and Judah. ("YHWH is praised")
~~~~~~~

Will you Declare It? - Now that He has shown It to you.

What point are you making?
How does this tie in with the OP?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

The Lord gave us commandments so we'd stay out of trouble. I believe being perfect means obeying those commandments. I don't think being perfect means being complete, unless being complete means obeying the Lord's commandments.

Surely one could not come without the other.

We are to be raised perfected. We will not "be" perfect before then. You're goal certainly is on the correct path.

Forgive me...

 

[dreadnought]

Surely one could not come without the other.

We are to be raised perfected. We will not "be" perfect before then. You're goal certainly is on the correct path.

Forgive me...

I believe there are those who will reach perfection before they leave this world:

And he said to them, "Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power." Mark 9:1 RSV

 

[dreadnought]

Surely one could not come without the other.

We are to be raised perfected. We will not "be" perfect before then. You're goal certainly is on the correct path.

Forgive me...

Thank you.