One today must go by the NT gospel of Christ in order to be "in Christ" and thereby be perfect, spotless, blameless "in Him".
Eph 1:4 God foreknew that the group Christian would be 'holy and without blame'. Since Christians do sin and have blame then the only way the Christian can ever be perfect, holy and without blame, without spot or wrinkle or blemish is by being "in Christ" and faithfully remaining in Him. Man can not ever attain sinless perfection by flawlessly, perfectly keeping the commands of God but only by being in Christ.
In the OT women were excluded concerning God's command to Abraham. It was a physical act performed by physical men the "new" commandment is performed by the Spirit and includes women because it is now called circumcision of the heart. But even this is not a "new" commandment. God required it long ago Deut 10:6 “So circumcise your heart, and stiffen your neck no longer." Deut 30:6. "And the Lord your God will give to you and to your seed a circumcision of the heart," Jeremiah 4:4 "Circumcise yourselves to the LORD And remove the foreskins of your heart, Men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem, Or else My wrath will go forth like fire And burn with none to quench it, Because of the evil of your deeds."Thank you for your kind words.
But circumcision of the flesh and circumcision of the Spirit are not the same thing. The Command in the OT on circumcision does not exist anymore. Paul says if you seek to be circumcised Christ shall profit you nothing (Galatians 5:2). I believe God's laws have changed and they come into their full fruition of what He desired them to ultimately be.
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Okay, so, I'm not sure why you quote my question and then change it and then answer the changed version of the question. I am aware of God's omniscience. I am not asking whether God is surprised by man's disobedience. I asked whether He demands obedience.God does not expect that man will be perfect in keeping His commands.
Abraham, and David, were justified in the exact same way that everyone else is justified. We are accounted righteous because of the imputation of Christ's righteousness.God did not require perfect sinless law keeping from Abraham but a simple faithful obedience. Abraham (and David) were justified by a faithful obedience and not by flawless law/command keeping, (Romans 4).
No. God demanded perfect obedience. He accepted less than perfect obedience because He is merciful. To claim that a holy God "desires" less than perfection is to impugn His divine character. To acknowledge that God desires perfection but, because He is merciful, accepts less than perfection is a recognition of His graciousness.Through the OT all God desired from the Jews was a faithful obedience and not flawless law keeping.
Agreed. Never said otherwise.God does require a man to be perfect, spotless, blameless, without blemish for that man to enter heaven. Yet that perfection, spotlessness, blamelessness comes by being "in Christ" and not by perfect, flawless law keeping.
Being "in Christ" is something done to us, not done as a result of our adherence to God's commandments. We obey Him because we are His, not so we can be His.It takes faithful obedience to be in Christ therefore Christ is the author of salvation unto all them that obey Him, (Hebrews 5:9).
Agreed.If God did require flawless law keeping and man could keep God's law perfectly, then there would be no need for the sacrifice of Christ.
Agreed.Since Christ's obedience was flawless then man has to be in Him to been seen by God as flawless.
Again, it just takes a
Actually, it takes an act of graciousness by God for us to be in Christ. Nothing we do gets us there. Faithful obedience is the byproduct of recognizing the magnificence of the gift of being put in Christ.faithful obedience (which God demands of man) to be in Christ not flawless law keeping (which God does not demand from man).
Men in the bible were never justified by flawless law keeping but by an obedient faith.
Oh wow, that sounds so harsh...and hard to do! But wait. somewhere Someone said that it won't be easy, They called it the "Straight and Narrow" Living a perfect sinless life is what a Christian is supposed to "strive" for!. Christ's sacrifice reconciles us to God, forgives our sins, but we WILL BE REWARDED ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS! We are to be careful how we build and our works are to be able to withstand the fire. If they are all burned up then what we had will be taken away. Parable of the talents.That is false. Nowhere does the Bible say that we will sin as a matter of fact over the course of the rest of our lives. There are many verses that tell us that we can overcome sin in this life.
Jesus says to two people to sin no more.
Galatians 5:24 says they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts.
Romans 13:14 says put on the Lord Jesus Christ so as not to fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
1 Peter 4:1-2 says that we can cease from sin and that we should not live the rest of our lives to the lusts of the flesh but to the will of God.
Peter actually describes the false prophets as not having ceased from sin
(See 2 Peter 2:1, and 2 Peter 2:14).
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It seems as though God accepts less than perfection...But then again if He did why would He sacrifice His perfect Son for us? God does NOT accept less than perfection which is the very reason why Christ HAD to die, to PAY for our imperfections. Only by His perfection are we able to stand before God. God's graciousness IS NOT ACCEPTING OUR IMPERFECTIONS! God's graciousness is the fact that He GAVE HIS SON TO PAY FOR OUR IMPERFECTIONS!No. God demanded perfect obedience. He accepted less than perfect obedience because He is merciful. To claim that a holy God "desires" less than perfection is to impugn His divine character. To acknowledge that God desires perfection but, because He is merciful, accepts less than perfection is a recognition of His graciousness.
It seems as though God accepts less than perfection...But then again if He did why would He sacrifice His perfect Son for us? God does NOT accept less than perfection which is the very reason why Christ HAD to die, to PAY for our imperfections. Only by His perfection are we able to stand before God. God's graciousness IS NOT ACCEPTING OUR IMPERFECTIONS! God's graciousness is the fact that He GAVE HIS SON TO PAY FOR OUR IMPERFECTIONS!
No man (other than Christ) can be perfect in his actions.A person cannot be perfect without abiding in Christ. This is true. But abiding in Christ and being perfect is in relation to righteous action or works. Please look at the verses in Post #260. You cannot say that being perfect is all about having a belief on Jesus. The word perfect is associated with righteous action many times in the Bible.
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That is false. Nowhere does the Bible say that we will sin as a matter of fact over the course of the rest of our lives. There are many verses that tell us that we can overcome sin in this life.
Jesus says to two people to sin no more.
Galatians 5:24 says they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts.
Romans 13:14 says put on the Lord Jesus Christ so as not to fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
1 Peter 4:1-2 says that we can cease from sin and that we should not live the rest of our lives to the lusts of the flesh but to the will of God.
Peter actually describes the false prophets as not having ceased from sin
(See 2 Peter 2:1, and 2 Peter 2:14).
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The problem you are having is you are mistaken the humility we have in sin with justifying sin. No one is justifying sin, not one.Is not God good?
Should not His people be good because He lives within them?
Why is everyone seeking justification in doing the wrong thing instead of the right thing with God?
Sincerely,
~ Jason.
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Okay, so, I'm not sure why you quote my question and then change it and then answer the changed version of the question. I am aware of God's omniscience. I am not asking whether God is surprised by man's disobedience. I asked whether He demands obedience.
Reformationist said:Abraham, and David, were justified in the exact same way that everyone else is justified. We are accounted righteous because of the imputation of Christ's righteousness.
Reformationist said:No. God demanded perfect obedience. He accepted less than perfect obedience because He is merciful. To claim that a holy God "desires" less than perfection is to impugn His divine character. To acknowledge that God desires perfection but, because He is merciful, accepts less than perfection is a recognition of His graciousness.
Reformationist said:Agreed. Never said otherwise.
Reformationist said:Being "in Christ" is something done to us, not done as a result of our adherence to God's commandments. We obey Him because we
Reformationist said:are His, not so we can be His.
Reformationist said:Agreed.
Agreed.
Reformationist said:Actually, it takes an act of graciousness by God for us to be in Christ. Nothing we do gets us there. Faithful obedience is the byproduct of recognizing the magnificence of the gift of being put in Christ.
All people who are justified are justified because God reckoned them righteous because of the vicarious atonement of Christ Jesus. You speak of "obedient faith" as if it's a locket you wear around your neck. Faith (and obedient faith is the only kind of faith as all others are something other than faith) is the means given by God through which we personally lay hold of the merits of Christ's redemptive work on the Cross.
The problem you are having is you are mistaken the humility we have in sin with justifying sin. No one is justifying sin, not one.
In Christ
Daniel
1 John 1:7-10 proves that the Christian does sin, as there were those Christians in the bible that committed sins for none were perfectly sinless.
Ceasing from sinning does not mean it is impossible for one to sin, but that one who becomes a Christian cannot continue to live in sin.
You said:1 Peter 2:20 "For what glory is it, if, when ye sin, and are buffeted for it, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye shall take it patiently, this is acceptable with God."
Peter here implies the Christian can sin for there is no glory for the Christian when he sins and endures with patience the harsh treatment he receives for for his sin. There is no credit in receving punishment for one's sins.
You said:1 Peter 3:8-11 if it were impossible for the Christian to sin, then these warnings from Peter make no sense, useless.
1 Peter 4:15 implies the Christian can sin.
1 Peter 5:8 makes no sense if it were impossible for the Christian to sin.
You said:2 Peter 1:5-10 implies the Christian can so sin as to become lost. Again, this passage makes no sense if it were impossible for the Christian to sin.
You said:2 Peter chapter 2 shows those that have been "bought" (verse 1) can return back to sinning and become lost.
2 Peter 3:17 implies the Christian can so sin as to become lost.
Oh wow, that sounds so harsh...and hard to do! But wait. somewhere Someone said that it won't be easy, They called it the "Straight and Narrow" Living a perfect sinless life is what a Christian is supposed to "strive" for!. Christ's sacrifice reconciles us to God, forgives our sins, but we WILL BE REWARDED ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS! We are to be careful how we build and our works are to be able to withstand the fire. If they are all burned up then what we had will be taken away. Parable of the talents.
Its really more about being perfect IN LOVE.
There are many who say that we must keep the commandments of the church rather than or rather, in addition to Yeshua.
The law we are to abide by is the one Yeshua commanded. Love God with all your heart mind soul and strength and love your neighbor as yourself.
Now, if we can manage to do that then we fulfill the requirements and are considered "perfect".
Of course you don't. Not one person here has justified sin, this is all in your mind. You really should study the parable of the tax collector and the pharisee.The humility we have in justifying sin? What?!
Your not making any sense.
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