so if u follow this command you no longer do any wrong? you never see someone on the street, yet fail to give them shelter? you never harbour lustful thoughts? you never do anything even slightly morally dubious?
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Paul's words are not confusing. They are wrong.
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It is ludicrous to assume Jesus might have suspected the person he told to go and sin no more would actually sin some more? Really? Since Jesus knew that we all sin and fall short of being perfect in our love for each other, that assumption is ludicrous? Oh I know you take the position that Jesus did not know that, right? What is ludicrious is to say I knew that Jesus did not mean what He said. I did not say that and I think Jesus did mean what He said, namely I want you to go and sin no more. Saying Jesus understood the fraility of us humans is not saying He did not mean what He said. Your handling of Paul is despictable. Paul never gave people an easy way to keep on sinning and if you have read Paul with any semblance of an open mind you know that.Foon Nerfdahl said:
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Foon Nerfdahl
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micknick said:
Foon Opines:
If you follow this command you will not sin. And how can you even consider not following a command of Jesus?
Scripture tells us that if you ever SHOULD happen to falter.....do not fear, because God knows your heart and if your heart is truly faithful, God will forgive you.
Of course, some will fail immediately because their heart is not in this struggle at all, much less faithful to God.
Their heart is busy looking for a loophole (like "Grace," for example).
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Foon Opines:
Was it not your position there was no evidence?
Do you have anything Socrates wrote? Did he also not exist?
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Foon Nerfdahl
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No, forgiveness is forgiveness.
Grace is a gift of power.....the power to lead a Godly and righteous life.
Big difference.
Grace is a gift of power.....the power to lead a Godly and righteous life.
Big difference.
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Foon Nerfdahl said:
I never said you shouldn't follow it. I said that as a human you will never be able to live up to it. I do try to live to it. I still mess up. But as you say, since my heart is faithful and I make the effort to try and keep this command, God forgives. THIS IS PAULS TEACHING!!!! Paul never EVER gives a free licence to sin. He merely points out that it is not on our own merit that we gain entry to Heaven, but by forgiveness through the grace of God, which we do not deserve, unless we have been perfect from birth, as only Jesus has ever been.
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Foon Nerfdahl
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I never proposed that Paul ever gave license to sin.
He did not.
He merely presented himself and all mankind as unable to live without sinning.
Jesus said the opposite......"Go and sin no more."
Choose your teacher. If you love to sin, choose Paul's Gospel.
I advise against it.
He did not.
He merely presented himself and all mankind as unable to live without sinning.
Jesus said the opposite......"Go and sin no more."
Choose your teacher. If you love to sin, choose Paul's Gospel.
I advise against it.
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it is capable to be human and not sin. Jesus did it. but we inherited sin from Adam. we will always be sinful. Jesus forgives sins repented of. if we live penitent lives we are saved. i try as hard as i can not to sin. but even when i focus on one sin, i still mess up in that area. i am unable to live a perfect life. i've tried (and still do try). i fail. Paul acknowledges this. That is all he does. and he is not alone in doing so, other writers do as well.
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Foon Nerfdahl
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micknick said:
Foon Opines:
You cannot inherit sin.
Each human is responsible for his or her actions.......and no other.
If the mythical "Adam" ever existed......he could in no way give us sin to share......it would be his alone and he would have to ask for forgiveness.
Paul does nothing but plant the seed of a sinful life in people.....filling them with the lie that they cannot lead a Godly life.
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biblical teaching is against you. we do not inherit sin as such, but a sinful nature. humans naturally do wrong, as a consequence of living in a fallen world. we all sin, before we even understand what it means to do wrong we sin. this is what i mean by inherited sin. and as i said before- paul does not condone sinful life. misinterpretation of his writings are not his responsibility.
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Foon Nerfdahl
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Baloney and double-talk.
The world did not "fall" anywhere.
If you are talking of some action of the mythical "Adam and Eve" you have gone back to a FundaGelical fantasy world.
Do you honestly think such people ever existed?
Perhaps you're going to try proving that? Trust me, you'll have even less luck than you had trying to prove Jesus existed.
Paul's Gospel is responsible for Christianity being the dismal failure that it is today.......a joke that talks love but neglects the poor, even EXPLOITS the poor, and makes war against the weakest and most helpless nations--and for PROFIT.
Did you ever consider the possibility that Paul never gave up his goal of destroying Christianity......but simply planted that seed of sin that did his work for him?
The world did not "fall" anywhere.
If you are talking of some action of the mythical "Adam and Eve" you have gone back to a FundaGelical fantasy world.
Do you honestly think such people ever existed?
Perhaps you're going to try proving that? Trust me, you'll have even less luck than you had trying to prove Jesus existed.
Paul's Gospel is responsible for Christianity being the dismal failure that it is today.......a joke that talks love but neglects the poor, even EXPLOITS the poor, and makes war against the weakest and most helpless nations--and for PROFIT.
Did you ever consider the possibility that Paul never gave up his goal of destroying Christianity......but simply planted that seed of sin that did his work for him?
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i do believe Adam and Eve existed. I can't prove it but you might find it interesting to know that studying census records from as early as they go back which is a few hundred years before Christ, population growth has been very constant. Extrapolating it back we end up with a single couple, not at the time of Adam, which would leave us with 10 Billion people alive today, but at the time of Noah and the flood. so if taking time back even 7000 years leaves us with implausible population figures, what happens if you want to take it back further?
The world did fall. God created it perfect, and man messed it up. this is a necessary belief for christianity. if you don't accept this you are not a christian.
The world did fall. God created it perfect, and man messed it up. this is a necessary belief for christianity. if you don't accept this you are not a christian.
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Foon Nerfdahl
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So.......you believe in the "flood" too, huh?
(Foon scratches his head--somewhat bemused.)
You should probably come back and talk to me when your spiritual journey brings you to this century.
Right now you seem to be a contemporary of the primitive FundaGelical Televangelists of the mid to late 20th who concerned themselves with witch hunts to ferret out those who might not be "real" Christians.
(Foon scratches his head--somewhat bemused.)
You should probably come back and talk to me when your spiritual journey brings you to this century.
Right now you seem to be a contemporary of the primitive FundaGelical Televangelists of the mid to late 20th who concerned themselves with witch hunts to ferret out those who might not be "real" Christians.
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micknick said:
Umm, that was God's plan for man to mess it up, otherwise He would have kept His perfect creation Perfect and there would have been no need for a Savior and Redeemer. . 
Hosea 13:14 From the hand of Sheol I do ransom them, From death I redeem them, Where [is] thy plague, O death? Where thy destruction, O Sheol? Repentance is hid from Mine eyes.
Reve 5:9 and they sing a new song, saying, `Worthy art thou to take the scroll, and to open the seals of it, because thou wast slauthered, and didst redeem us to God in thy blood, out of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation,
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Exactly, a method for people who can not forgive them selves for past mistakes is found in the doctrine of atonement. God did not require the human sacrifice, but rather people required the human sacrifice because they are too stupid to accept Gods grace.tattedsaint said:
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Most religions recognise that people fall into error and need to correct their ways. Paul and Jesus seem to have different approaches to the issue.elman said:
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You sin. You go to the priest and tell him about it and tell him him you are repentant. The priest gives you something to do or just absolves you. You can repeat the cycle all your life if you wish to.
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Foon Nerfdahl
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One of the Catholics I knew in my teenage years used to say, "When I get done with Confession I feel like I have a full tank of gas."
I also noticed that they went to church on Saturday night so they wouldn't have to get up with the massive hangover they would have on Sunday morning.
The Protestant FundaGelicals, of course, have a different system. They have a neverending full tank of gas and usually conceal their drinking.
They make up for it by gorging themselves at after-church buffets, (lots of plump FundaGelicals) overshopping, overworking, and beating up on homosexuals, Muslims and Democrats.
This is not the Way of Jesus.......it all came from Paul.
I also noticed that they went to church on Saturday night so they wouldn't have to get up with the massive hangover they would have on Sunday morning.
The Protestant FundaGelicals, of course, have a different system. They have a neverending full tank of gas and usually conceal their drinking.
They make up for it by gorging themselves at after-church buffets, (lots of plump FundaGelicals) overshopping, overworking, and beating up on homosexuals, Muslims and Democrats.
This is not the Way of Jesus.......it all came from Paul.
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DrFate said:
i couldn't agree with you more. and the thing is, at least in my opinion, if one takes it seriously what Jesus said, and all that it entails, redundant confessions would end, guilty consciences would cease, freedom would truly be more than some afterlife hope, and the yoke would actually be easy and light.
it's not an easy yoke to carry to think in terms of, i will never meet the mark, but the mark must still be met, so i will run to grace cause i'm a failed expirament and i will repeat Christ dieing time and time again so i can be set free in my "spirit", in my "emotions" and wait for the time that i have to repeat this cycle all again. it's all too familiar to me.
when suppossed "biblical sound teaching" can exscuse the abuse of what Christ did, one eventually comes to a point that deconversion may be the most holiest of moves and just start over on a whole new mindset.
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