Paul's Vision

[A New Dawn]

I don't want to get cluttered here with the "whiners." I am concerned here because I saw so many of the mods who supposed are conservative trying to be "objective." This is one thing I couldn't handle when I was voted to be a moderator because I don't see much objectivity in the gospel. No matter how much we want to be inclusive here by nature the gospel is divise. So either a) take everyones vote equally or b) define specific parameters to define your Christianty.

Pauls statement seemed to vauge to make a conclusion for a or b. We'll see where things go.

I am a fairly middle-of-the-road conservative, yet I get accused of being a nasty fundamentalist by some and of being too touchy-feely by others, given over to being too PC. The problem I have with your post, RC, is that the rules are clear that discussion must be respectful on this site. That means pretend you are sitting in your best friend's living room discussing an issue with him. One that you two aren't particularly seeing eye-to-eye on. Would you get irate and call him names in his own house? No, you'd be respectful. You might call him names once you leave his house, but while you are in his house, you'd be respectful to him. That is what we ask here. First and foremost, you are in someone else's house here. You can say just about anything as long as you say it with respect by following the rules. If you can't abide by that (and you should, since you agreed with the rules when you signed up), then don't post here. We don't say that to drive people away, but to be upfront about what type of discussion this board seeks to have.

(Not meaning to pick on you, but many people here have the same attitude you have expressed and this needs to be said to all of them.)

 

[meh]

Just a quick question. Is it possible to see a break down of those 1800 people, like where they went after they logged in? For instance, how many went right to the repaholics sub-forum, how many went to take care of their pets, how many played in the arcade, how many posted, and how many just lurked? Having 1800 members log in doesn't mean 1800 members posted anything or contributed to this forum in any way whatsoever.

This may be too much honesty, but I do not do the deeper stat studies because I'm dyslexic and the numbers would take me an hour to figure out. Unique users is a stat that's easy to read. It comes up when you log into the Admin Control Panel on the front page. It is usually very steady except in the summer months. I'm assuming that's because a lot of people are on vacation and what-not. For instance today so far there are Unique Members Today 1,282. That's down about two hundred from this time yesterday.

And I would take exception to people posting in BE or reps or feeding pets aren't contributing to the board. They are contributing in the way they want to. Just because it's games or what they enjoy doing doesn't make them any less of a member.

 

[Zecryphon]

This may be too much honesty, but I do not do the deeper stat studies because I'm dyslexic and the numbers would take me an hour to figure out. Unique users is a stat that's easy to read. It comes up when you log into the Admin Control Panel on the front page. It is usually very steady except in the summer months. I'm assuming that's because a lot of people are on vacation and what-not. For instance today so far there are Unique Members Today 1,282. That's down about two hundred from this time yesterday.

And I would take exception to people posting in BE or reps or feeding pets aren't contributing to the board. They are contributing in the way they want to. Just because it's games or what they enjoy doing doesn't make them any less of a member.

I understand about being dyslexic with numbers, so no worries there. It was just a question after all. No biggie. I'm sorry you have that condition. I didn't mean to say that the people who are in Blessings Exchange or feeding their pets or in the arcade aren't contributing to the forum, it's just that they're not actively posting in the theological or safe haven areas of the site. So to say 1800 people logged in yesterday, gives the impression that 1800 people made posts. I was just trying to show, that my not be the case.

 

[Cris413]

I'm not saying we're perfect, however I do think membership needs to take responsibility for some of this. I don't think some members are community oriented. We get PMs daily from people who think we let conservatives get away with anything; people who think we let liberals get away with anything; people who want to create more new congregational forums to kick out those in their denomination they feel aren't "truly" of the denomination; we get requests daily to close various forums because they aren't Christian enough; we get daily requests to open the entire board and have no CO areas; we get requests to make more of the board CO.

I agree....and the short time I spent on staff....I understand what you're saying here. However...I think what many are trying to convey is not so much "we all want it our way" but rather some clear direction and definition. Having the Nicene Creed as CF's SoF is a right step in the right direction...and I think that consideration that CF is also "moderated" accordingly is what many are suggesting.

Without members there is no board. I understand that. However, I'm also not going to be quiet anymore and allow myself, Tonks, arbor, Gweny, Paul, and the entire staff take beatings when people aren't taking responsibility for their own mistakes and behavior.

As well you shouldn't...however...Staff should take some responsibility as well to set the example they wish others to follow. That whole do as I say and not as I do is the definition of hypocrisy. Admin/staff publicly verbalizing disdain and contempt for certain forums and members....totally NOT COOL...

….leaders generally set the pace of the pack…

(Not pointing to anyone on this thread in particular. It happens to be the thread talking about this issue). I find some of the forums here unbearable.

So do I....and rarely do I venture out into a very large portion of the forums in CF.

Christians are bashed left and right in some areas. In other areas, non-Christians are bashed. And then we have areas where Christians bash each other with no mercy. I don't find that community oriented.

Which is why "safe havens" with FSGs were created and should be moderated as such. So likeminded believers could share their beliefs and worldview in a relatively peaceful atmosphere.

It's not about what any individual thinks is appropriate...it's about what the FSGs put forth as the guidelines for that particular forum and whether or not...those posting in those specific forums are doing so according the individual SoFs and FSGs....as well as in accordance with Rule of CF in general.

I find that to be people who want everything their way or no way and they have no patience for anyone who doesn't believe exactly as they do. Which is actually fine if you come down to it. Don't have patience. I don't care. But post as if you do. CPE in particular was offensive as I don't believe a lot of theories there, either, however I would never tell someone who disagrees with me they aren't really Christian, and that was happening.

I don't know what CPE is...but again...if there were more clear guidelines....founded in adherence to the Nicene Creed....I'm thinking we would see a lot fewer accusations such as that. It seems to me....the Rules and Regs of CF are intentionally "vague" so that there can be moderation by individual discretion....back in the day....the Rules were quite clear and quite concise...and I'm sure no one wishes to go with the "letter of the Law" mentality....but there must be some way to have more clarity and definition.

So according to feedback and complaints there are too many CO areas, there aren't enough CO areas, some people don't actually belong in the area or denomination to which they belong, there should be more denominational splits, there should be no denominational splits, the board is too conservative, and the board is too liberal. Which should we believe

Perhaps the answer is not in which Admin should believe....but rather in maintaining the liberal areas as liberal, the moderate areas as moderate and the conservative areas as conservative....and denominational areas...per that forums specific SoF.

I personally have no problem what-so-ever having liberal and or moderate forums and such....occasionally I even drop in to fellowship in WWMCe...as there are many who participate regularly there that I am quite fond of...

...but I would NEVER consider debating their beliefs and worldviews with them....as that is their "safe haven"

Just as the Conservative forum should also be respected as such....and moderated accordingly...

Multiple times I've presented this portion of the CC FSGs as the reasoning behind that the forum should be respected as conservative in every sense of the word....

Our Christian faith can not be separated from our views on politics and society, or any other area of life. The Conservative Christian worldview holds the following values and views to be necessary expressions of Christian morality based upon Holy Scripture and the established teachings of the Christian Church.

and yet somehow....there seems to be some "loophole" that I personally do not see....that if one's "theology" is conservative....their liberal/moderate politics and worldview is appropriate and it's quite alright to be in conflict with those who also have conservative politics and worldviews....

And while I understand this is a congregational area....and there are areas designated for politics and current events....they are not all that welcoming and/or that charitable with conservative PoVs....I tried posting my thoughts on current events and politics in those areas...I lasted two days and it was only a matter of minutes....before I was getting beat up pretty bad....feel free to look up my posts in those areas…I didn’t start out being combative nor bashing anyone….and sadly….I did end up losing my cool a couple times…which is also a reason I don’t go back…I don’t want to stumble….and I don’t want to cause anyone else to stumble either.

....not to mention....as Conservative Christians....much of what we see happening in our Government and our society is quite concerning to us...and I don't know about anyone else....but I would like to discuss these issues in some sort of reasonable and peaceful manner with other likeminded Christians.

And I realize you can’t see expression on my face nor hear the tone of my voice (and lack of such is a large portion of why message boards are not all that effective in proper communication)…but please believe me when I say that I’m not trying to be argumentative and my demeanor is calm and gentle all throughout this post…even though it may read as being in “conflict” to the points you’re trying to make…I’m simply sharing my thoughts and offering my perspective…truly....

 

[Tonks]

First of all, that post of mine was directed to: meh and not you Tonks. She gave a number of 1800, I just asked for a break down of that number. But your response begs the question of why post the numbers at all if it's not anyone's business?

Why do people obsess over 1) where people are posting and 2) why to people actually spend the time to go through all of the forums that they can view and "add up" how many people to count how many people they can find online at any given time? I don't know the answer to that question. The numbers were strictly for comparison's sake because, frankly, I get rather wearing of coming into this forum and end up reading over and over about how the "site is dying" and there is "no one online." Both of those statements couldn't be further from the truth and I am completely mystified why people are so completely OCD about it.

I don't know how many members are here and I don't think all the ones that are here, only log in to go to the blessings forum. That's why if you actually go back and read my post you'll see I wanted a break down of where these 1800 people went, so we could have an idea of where the majority of people are spending their time in this forum.

Why is that of any concern of yours? It has nothing to do with the Conservative Christianity forum. I've never bothered to spend the inordinant amount of time that it would take to figure out and "member curiousity" certainly isn't a reason to spend time. I suggest you focus on, you know, Conservative Christianity or the actual content of the owner's vision statement which is the purpose of the thread.

It makes me think you don't have access to any of this information. I suggest if you want people to drop the subject you stop bragging and showboating about the kind of information you SAY you can get your hands on, but yet never actually produce. But since my question is directed to meh and not you, I see no reason why you would even claim to be able to produce the numbers, but then say you're not going to.

Think what you will.

Your attitude in this post and in general, stinks Tonks. There is no need to be so rude in a post to members who are only asking questions. If people asking questions is too much of a burden on you, let someone else who has the proper people skills handle such posts. Or better yet, let meh, to whom my post was actually addressed answer the questions I asked her.

Your opinion is noted.

 

[BelindaP]

This may be too much honesty, but I do not do the deeper stat studies because I'm dyslexic and the numbers would take me an hour to figure out. Unique users is a stat that's easy to read. It comes up when you log into the Admin Control Panel on the front page. It is usually very steady except in the summer months. I'm assuming that's because a lot of people are on vacation and what-not. For instance today so far there are Unique Members Today 1,282. That's down about two hundred from this time yesterday.

And I would take exception to people posting in BE or reps or feeding pets aren't contributing to the board. They are contributing in the way they want to. Just because it's games or what they enjoy doing doesn't make them any less of a member.

Is the number unique members or unique visitors? There is a huge difference between the two. This site gets about 100 unique visitors for every member who actually logs on.

 

[Tonks]

Is the number unique members or unique visitors? There is a huge difference between the two. This site gets about 100 unique visitors for every member who actually logs on.

unique members.

 

[BelindaP]

unique members.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Tonks]

This is all you're going to get...and it is just going to have to satistfy everyone:

 

[Tonks]

So...are there any questions actually related to the actual vision statement? I gotta go back and read what belinda wrote as i'm not sure i addressed it all...

 

[Nadiine]

not from me, I was done since the last time around

 

[Tonks]

The thing in Paul's vision that I found most disheartening was his viewing this site like a church. That only opens the door up to even more exclusion. I know he's talking about us all getting along and being charitable and such. But, if we are constrained to this place being a church, I don't know that there can be any outreach at all. Maybe that's the point. Perhaps he doesn't want to do outreach. If that's the case, then he needs to be more clear.

This is all the info that I have...it was asked in the CR when Paul announced it to staff.

Question from staffer

In what aspect do you think of CF as church?

Answer

we are a mainly a group of believers gathered together to ultimately worship Christ...i think of CF as a church in a very general manner.

Follow up

Okay. Church universal, where we are to glorify Christ, I don't have a problem with. If this was to try to turn into a resemblance of a local church, with its governances, then I would have a problem with that.

Answer to follow up

i very much believe in the local church and do not think that CF can replace that

So, I really don't know much more than that.

 

[Cris413]

I posted some thoughts around post #86...which got totally buried quite quickly...and now that we have yet more posts of one of the points I was trying to address regarding leading by example.... or NOT....it won't be long before this thread is closed and TB'd...




....dare I consider my thoughts might be addressed before that happens?

 

[Cris413]

guess....I'll just head back to my tree....

Peace....

 

[Zecryphon]

guess....I'll just head back to my tree....

Peace....

Not without your cookie and a pat on the head you don't!

 

[Tonks]

I agree....and the short time I spent on staff....I understand what you're saying here. However...I think what many are trying to convey is not so much "we all want it our way" but rather some clear direction and definition. Having the Nicene Creed as CF's SoF is a right step in the right direction...and I think that consideration that CF is also "moderated" accordingly is what many are suggesting.

I guess the question is...how would you make that occur if it is not occuring already. All the individuals that mod the Christian areas of the site are Christians that adhere to the Nicene Creed's definition of Christian orthodoxy. I guess I don't understand "moderated accordingly." The vast majority of reports that come in aren't actual violations...they're generally just disagreements in opinions. In fact people just love (it seems) to report people for "violating FSGs" when there really is no violation...usually it is just a difference in theological outlook, both acceptable for the purposes of a given forum. what then?

As well you shouldn't...however...Staff should take some responsibility as well to set the example they wish others to follow. That whole do as I say and not as I do is the definition of hypocrisy. Admin/staff publicly verbalizing disdain and contempt for certain forums and members....totally NOT COOL...

That is probably true...but then again any time we come and try and have a civil conversation it is like pulling teeth. We're human too. And we do honestly have problems with certain forums...many because we have to deal with a lot of complaints about behavior in those forums. It does get exasperating.

….leaders generally set the pace of the pack…

Most "leaders" are non-participatory in many forums - including this one. We can't be blamed for every single problem. Some, sure...but the whole "I'm just following the example set" is a bit of a stretch of the truth.

So do I....and rarely do I venture out into a very large portion of the forums in CF. Which is why "safe havens" with FSGs were created and should be moderated as such. So likeminded believers could share their beliefs and worldview in a relatively peaceful atmosphere.

See my first part. There is a difference between "violation of FSGs" and "difference of opinion." Based on the volume of reports sometimes people think that they are the same thing.

It's not about what any individual thinks is appropriate...it's about what the FSGs put forth as the guidelines for that particular forum and whether or not...those posting in those specific forums are doing so according the individual SoFs and FSGs....as well as in accordance with Rule of CF in general.

see above.

I don't know what CPE is...but again...if there were more clear guidelines....founded in adherence to the Nicene Creed....I'm thinking we would see a lot fewer accusations such as that.

Christian Philosophy and Ethics.

It seems to me....the Rules and Regs of CF are intentionally "vague" so that there can be moderation by individual discretion....back in the day....the Rules were quite clear and quite concise...and I'm sure no one wishes to go with the "letter of the Law" mentality....but there must be some way to have more clarity and definition.

We used to have incredibly legalistic rules with multiple bullets and sub-bullets and there were complaints then too. Every time "claification" is given...there are complaints. It is really a lose-lose from our perspective at times.

Perhaps the answer is not in which Admin should believe....but rather in maintaining the liberal areas as liberal, the moderate areas as moderate and the conservative areas as conservative....and denominational areas...per that forums specific SoF.

Outside of the specific liberal / moderate / conservative forums those rules really don't apply, though. Take OBOB for example...it should be a forum for *anyone* that identifies as Catholic. We don't need one for every flavor...and we're certainly not qualified to judge (nor is anyone else on this site, by the way) whether someone is "enough" of something.

Just as the Conservative forum should also be respected as such....and moderated accordingly...

All sites are moderated to the overall site rules. We don't have 700 different rule sets for the 700 forums we have.

Multiple times I've presented this portion of the CC FSGs as the reasoning behind that the forum should be respected as conservative in every sense of the word....

Our Christian faith can not be separated from our views on politics and society, or any other area of life. The Conservative Christian worldview holds the following values and views to be necessary expressions of Christian morality based upon Holy Scripture and the established teachings of the Christian Church.

and yet somehow....there seems to be some "loophole" that I personally do not see....that if one's "theology" is conservative....their liberal/moderate politics and worldview is appropriate and it's quite alright to be in conflict with those who also have conservative politics and worldviews....

Some people do separate them. It is simply a fact. How do you deal with them?

And while I understand this is a congregational area....and there are areas designated for politics and current events....they are not all that welcoming and/or that charitable with conservative PoVs....I tried posting my thoughts on current events and politics in those areas...I lasted two days and it was only a matter of minutes....before I was getting beat up pretty bad....feel free to look up my posts in those areas…I didn’t start out being combative nor bashing anyone….and sadly….I did end up losing my cool a couple times…which is also a reason I don’t go back…I don’t want to stumble….and I don’t want to cause anyone else to stumble either.

....not to mention....as Conservative Christians....much of what we see happening in our Government and our society is quite concerning to us...and I don't know about anyone else....but I would like to discuss these issues in some sort of reasonable and peaceful manner with other likeminded Christians.

The other thing to note is "Conservative Christian" is not just a short-hand for "American conservative christian." I think people sometimes confuse that.

And I realize you can’t see expression on my face nor hear the tone of my voice (and lack of such is a large portion of why message boards are not all that effective in proper communication)…but please believe me when I say that I’m not trying to be argumentative and my demeanor is calm and gentle all throughout this post…even though it may read as being in “conflict” to the points you’re trying to make…I’m simply sharing my thoughts and offering my perspective…truly....

I've never thought you were argumentative. I've always enjoyed your posts.

 

[Nadiine]

guess....I'll just head back to my tree....

Peace....

game time for me

(then back to work)

 

[Cris413]

Hi Tonks...just wanted to take a mo and say thanks for the reply.......I have some stuff to do IRL...so I sadly I don't have time right now to address your points/questions...but I do have some thoughts...

If the thread is still open when I get back...I'll post them...otherwise I may send you a PM...might just do that either way...

...anyway....thanks again for taking the time to reply.

 

[Tonks]

Hi Tonks...just wanted to take a mo and say thanks for the reply.......I have some stuff to do IRL...so I sadly I don't have time right now to address your points/questions...but I do have some thoughts...

If the thread is still open when I get back...I'll post them...otherwise I may send you a PM...might just do that either way...

...anyway....thanks again for taking the time to reply.

i'll make sure it is open.

 

[Cris413]

Not without your cookie and a pat on the head you don't!

ROTFL....can I hab a gwass of miwk too pweeeeze!...