Paul's limited understanding!

[HebrewVaquero]

Act 26:14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Act 26:15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
Act 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
Act 26:17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
Act 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

If this is The Lord Jesus speaking to Paul here...........then he was chosen to be an Apostle by The Lord.....in vs.17 where he says ..."now I send thee".......it means apostello.

"it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks"

Of course you know this is a line from a Greek play, right?

 

[Sophrosyne]

No, I just wanted to spare you the explanation. I was hoping you'd figure it out.

I'm not here to agree with you or others but rather to agree with God whom sent Paul to the Gentiles and Jews with his Gospel of Grace.

 

[Jason Sanders]

Ok, let's start with something simple:
Is it okay to eat meat sacrificed to idols?

In my opinion? It does not matter if a slab of meat was sacrificed to an idol, simply because of the fact that I know that said is nothing but a lie. I have Truth within me, dwelling within my spirit in the form of the Holy Spirit Himself- why should I fear a piece of wood or bone or gold?

However, I believe you miss the point of this Scripture- Paul himself speaks shortly thereafter of how there are those who do not understand what I have just explained, and that those who do eat the meat are no "better" than those who do not- they simply have a stronger relationship with the Holy Spirit, and thus a greater understanding of His Love. The point of the passage was two-fold- to inform those who WERE spiritually strong that they were not "Better than" those in the church at Corinth who were not, and also to remind those same spiritually strong brothers and sisters that they should be careful when exercising the freedom that they possess, lest they cause other people to stumble and falter in their own walk with Christ.

How, then, is that in anyway going against the teaching of Christ?

 

[HebrewVaquero]

I'm not here to agree with you or others but rather to agree with God whom sent Paul to the Gentiles and Jews with his Gospel of Grace.

That's fine, I fully realize your backhanded comment but don't bring God into this; you'll have to take Paul's own word for it and what Paul's buddy Luke wrote.

 

[HebrewVaquero]

In my opinion? It does not matter if a slab of meat was sacrificed to an idol, simply because of the fact that I know that said is nothing but a lie. I have Truth within me, dwelling within my spirit in the form of the Holy Spirit Himself- why should I fear a piece of wood or bone or gold?

However, I believe you miss the point of this Scripture- Paul himself speaks shortly thereafter of how there are those who do not understand what I have just explained, and that those who do eat the meat are no "better" than those who do not- they simply have a stronger relationship with the Holy Spirit, and thus a greater understanding of His Love. The point of the passage was two-fold- to inform those who WERE spiritually strong that they were not "Better than" those in the church at Corinth who were not, and also to remind those same spiritually strong brothers and sisters that they should be careful when exercising the freedom that they possess, lest they cause other people to stumble and falter in their own walk with Christ.

How, then, is that in anyway going against the teaching of Christ?

"How, then, is that in anyway going against the teaching of Christ?"

Jesus speaking in:
Revelation 2:14
But I have a few things against you, because you have there some who ..........put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols.....

(The dispensation card can't be used on this one as it is AFTER the cross)

 

[Jason Sanders]

"How, then, is that in anyway going against the teaching of Christ?"

Jesus speaking in:
Revelation 2:14
But I have a few things against you, because you have there some who ..........put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols.....

Ahem.

Revelation 2:14
14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there some that hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit fornication.

If you're going to quote a Scripture, you should quote the ENTIRE Scripture, not crib out whatever pieces of it don't fit into your argument. Additionally, you fail to see the context of this verse- Christ is referring to something that was once a teaching of Balaam, that was taught to Balak, who then used it to cast a stumbling block before Israel - and also to eat meat sacrificed to idols and to fornicate. The only connection this verse has to Paul's letter is that it references a specific decree in the Law of Moses (not to eat meat that had been sacrificed to idols); otherwise the verse has nothing to do with the point of what Paul was getting at in 1st Corinthians 8, never mind that we have been reborn through Christ's death and resurrection and are thus no longer under the old Law/Covenant, which was merely a means to reveal how sinful man was while simultaneously increasing the burden of that sin so it became utterly unbearable (for else how would we seek salvation, if the load was easily borne?).

I'm not certain why you seem so intent on discrediting Paul's teachings, nor do I truly understand what you think to hold up in their place, but I do wonder; have you, truly, accepted the Holy Spirit? For what I see you speak of is not Grace but Law, oppressive and condemning, confining others to live under a system that has not, will not, and never was meant to lead anyone to salvation.

So, I ask you: do you believe in Jesus Christ?

 

[Righttruth]

Paul said that he was the least of the apostles, 1 Corinthians 15:9, and didn't deserve to be one. Doesn't sound to me like he was dominating them.
He was also called to be an apostle to the Gentiles - the last thing he wanted was to mislead them about Jesus.

All self-claims! There cannot be a separate apostle for Gentiles. He was a chosen instrument to take the Gospel to both Gentiles and Jews. He took an easy shortcut on his own to begin with!

 

[Righttruth]

He WAS, and had been, a Pharisee. He wouldn't have practiced as one after his conversion, but that doesn't invalidate the training he received and that he attained the title of Pharisee.

Do you think he's lying then? You seem to be portraying him as some kind of deceiver/manipulator.

Yes, he was supposed to be 'was', but he claimed to be 'is'! According to his own admission, he was a crafty person. No doubt he was a manipulator to push his agenda.

 

[Righttruth]

You've got to be kidding me, Paul certainly didn't get beaten and stoned multiple times for trying to "please all". Paul's writings certainly don't fare well often with a lot of people who claim to be Christian these days as they continually have to reject them to believe what they do.

He was prepared for anything to push his agenda. He couldn't turn back! Paul was the first heretic in Christianity!

 

[Jason Sanders]

All self-claims! There cannot be a separate apostle for Gentiles. He was a chosen instrument to take the Gospel to both Gentiles and Jews. He took an easy shortcut on his own to begin with!

If I might ask: Why is it impossible for there to be one Apostle for the Gentiles and another for the Jews? Is God like, standing around telling the 12 that they each have to reach every demographic, regardless of their personal skill sets and giftings? I wasn't aware of THAT part of Scripture...

Yes, he was supposed to be 'was', but he claimed to be 'is'! According to his own admission, he was a crafty person. No doubt he was a manipulator to push his agenda.

He was indeed crafty. I fail to see how being clever is a sin. Or disavows one from being an apostle. Or makes a person a manipulator trying to push an unrighteous agenda.

He was prepared for anything to push his agenda. He couldn't turn back! Paul was the first heretic in Christianity!

Some proof would be nice. You know. That thing you need to back up claims that the writer of over half the New Testament was a heretic teaching false doctrine, one that has become so pervasive that literally billions of people accept what he said to be truth.

Oh, and uh, while your at it, if Paul was a heretic as you say, why did God allow his teachings into the Bible? Why did Peter say they were Scripture? Why did so many people come to accept Christ through his Ministry? Why do so many people TODAY come to accept Christ as their Lord and Savior because of his words?

Answers, with concrete proof, would be nice.

 

[Righttruth]

You bet he was an opportunist, he made every effort to win men to Christ.

1 Corinthians 9:19-23New American Standard Bible (NASB)
19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under a]">[a]the Law, as under b]">[b]the Law though not being myself under c]">[c]the Law, so that I might win those who are under d]">[d]the Law; 21 to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law. 22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some. 23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.

To accept his abridged version of gospel while at the same time condemning Peter for doing something similar!

 

[OldShepherd]

.

 

[Righttruth]

Act 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
Act 9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
Act 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

Don't you believe this Righttruth?

OK, but why he stopped going to Jews? Why did he change his status 'chosen vessel' to 'apostle'?

 

[2KnowHim]

"it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks"

Of course you know this is a line from a Greek play, right?

So are you saying that Jesus didn't say this?

 

[Righttruth]

If I might ask: Why is it impossible for there to be one Apostle for the Gentiles and another for the Jews? Is God like, standing around telling the 12 that they each have to reach every demographic, regardless of their personal skill sets and giftings? I wasn't aware of THAT part of Scripture...

Jesus chose 12 to judge the 12 tribes. It cannot be more.

He was indeed crafty. I fail to see how being clever is a sin.

Craftiness is cunningness that is sinful.

Or disavows one from being an apostle. Or makes a person a manipulator trying to push an unrighteous agenda.
Some proof would be nice. You know. That thing you need to back up claims that the writer of over half the New Testament was a heretic teaching false doctrine, one that has become so pervasive that literally billions of people accept what he said to be truth.

Oh, and uh, while your at it, if Paul was a heretic as you say, why did God allow his teachings into the Bible?

The published book "Did Saint Paul Deviate From the Gospel" is helpful in this regard.

Why did Peter say they were Scripture?

No he didn't.

Why did so many people come to accept Christ through his Ministry? Why do so many people TODAY come to accept Christ as their Lord and Savior because of his words?
Answers, with concrete proof, would be nice.

People prefer meaningless rituals and 'ear tickling' theories and deceptive assurances! Narrow is the way to the truth, only a few will enter it!

Matthew 7
13 "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.

14 For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Luke 13
24 "Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

 

[2KnowHim]

OK, but why he stopped going to Jews? Why did he change his status 'chosen vessel' to 'apostle'?

Act 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
Act 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

I think that pretty much says why, don't you?

 

[Jason Sanders]

Jesus chose 12 to judge the 12 tribes. It cannot be more..

Oh? And what Scripture do you have to say that there cannot be more apostles? Yes, the 12 were chosen to judge the 12 tribes- but what about the rest of the world, the Gentiles that God himself directed Peter to begin baptizing in the name of his Son?

Craftiness is cunningness that is sinful.

Uh. Proof please? As in, Scripture stating as such.

The published book "Did Saint Paul Deviate From the Gospel" is helpful in this regard.

Some excerpts show casing your point would be nice.

No he didn't.

Um. Yes he did.

2nd Peter 3:16

People prefer meaningless rituals and 'ear tickling' theories and deceptive assurances! Narrow is the way to the truth, only a few will enter it!

Matthew 7
13 "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.

14 For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Luke 13
24 "Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

So what I'm hearing here is that the pull of a lie is more powerful than the Truth of God, and that only a few, like yourself, will be able to steer themselves away from the lie and towards the Truth that God has created.

Huh. Now where have I heard that before...

Oh wait.

The Pharisee's.

 

[HebrewVaquero]

Ahem.

Revelation 2:14
14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there some that hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit fornication.

If you're going to quote a Scripture, you should quote the ENTIRE Scripture, not crib out whatever pieces of it don't fit into your argument. Additionally, you fail to see the context of this verse- Christ is referring to something that was once a teaching of Balaam, that was taught to Balak, who then used it to cast a stumbling block before Israel - and also to eat meat sacrificed to idols and to fornicate. The only connection this verse has to Paul's letter is that it references a specific decree in the Law of Moses (not to eat meat that had been sacrificed to idols); otherwise the verse has nothing to do with the point of what Paul was getting at in 1st Corinthians 8, never mind that we have been reborn through Christ's death and resurrection and are thus no longer under the old Law/Covenant, which was merely a means to reveal how sinful man was while simultaneously increasing the burden of that sin so it became utterly unbearable (for else how would we seek salvation, if the load was easily borne?).

I'm not certain why you seem so intent on discrediting Paul's teachings, nor do I truly understand what you think to hold up in their place, but I do wonder; have you, truly, accepted the Holy Spirit? For what I see you speak of is not Grace but Law, oppressive and condemning, confining others to live under a system that has not, will not, and never was meant to lead anyone to salvation.

So, I ask you: do you believe in Jesus Christ?

Ahem....
1) The Scripture reference was clearly posted and linked.
2) It was made clear the Scripture was abbreviated (......) to quickly get to the point.
3) time is valuable and not everybody wants to wade through non-essentials.
4) If one feels something essential was left out they are feel to post concerning it, (as you have).

You asked;
"So, I ask you: do you believe in Jesus Christ?"

I don't believe in the Pagan Jesus.
I do believe in Yeshua the Promised Messiah!

 

[HebrewVaquero]

So are you saying that Jesus didn't say this?

If Jesus was quoting a Greek play contemporary with Paul's time, then I suppose He said it.

 

[Strong in Him]

Ok, let's start with something simple:
Is it okay to eat meat sacrificed to idols?

If you want to eat meat that you know has been sacrificed to idols; go ahead. It's not wrong, UNLESS you believe it is wrong but are doing it because everyone else is, or unless you are with someone who believes it is wrong and doing it would hurt their faith.