Even after his conversion he claimed himself to be a Pharisee! A typical strategy of an opportunist!
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Paul's limited understanding!
- Thread starter Righttruth
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Even after his conversion he claimed himself to be a Pharisee! A typical strategy of an opportunist!
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Paul said that he was the least of the apostles, 1 Corinthians 15:9, and didn't deserve to be one. Doesn't sound to me like he was dominating them.
He was also called to be an apostle to the Gentiles - the last thing he wanted was to mislead them about Jesus.
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He WAS, and had been, a Pharisee. He wouldn't have practiced as one after his conversion, but that doesn't invalidate the training he received and that he attained the title of Pharisee.
Do you think he's lying then? You seem to be portraying him as some kind of deceiver/manipulator.
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HebrewVaquero
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Specifically where does Jesus call Paul to be a "Apostle"? If anything Jesus called Paul to be a "Witness".
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The other apostles felt they could accept him as one. But "apostle" just means one who is sent - and that certainly applied to Paul.
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Sophrosyne
Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16
You've got to be kidding me, Paul certainly didn't get beaten and stoned multiple times for trying to "please all". Paul's writings certainly don't fare well often with a lot of people who claim to be Christian these days as they continually have to reject them to believe what they do.
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HebrewVaquero
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Yes, I heard this repeated many times before. Yet is overlooked that the word "Apostle" has more than one meaning. When Paul calls himself 'one who was abnormally born' he is including himself with the 12 Apostles.
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HebrewVaquero
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Ok, reality check:
To believe Paul you have to believe one of the following:
1) The Bible has been corrupted.
2) The Bible has been mistranslated.
3) Some of what Jesus said isn't true.
4) Paul is simply misunderstood.
Or:
You can be a dispensationalist then you can dismiss or accept anything by just applying it to the dispensation of your choice.
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Sophrosyne
Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16
Or you can dismiss Peter's claims about Paul to reject his words.
2 Peter 3:15-16New American Standard Bible (NASB)
15 and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
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No, he wasn't one of the 12 - he became, and was accepted as, an apostle after that. The person chosen to replace Judas, and take the number back up to 12, was Matthias - before Paul was even converted. But Peter refers to him as "our dear brother Paul", 2 Peter 3:15, and Paul describes in Galatians 2 how he was accepted as an apostle.
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If you don't believe Paul you have to believe that most of the NT is unreliable and cannot be trusted. Paul's letters, obviously written by Paul; Acts and Luke's Gospel, written by Paul's companion and doctor; Mark's Gospel and 1 and 2 Peter, written, dictated or informed by Peter, one of the 12, who accepted Paul and urged people to accept, and understand, his letters.
How so?
Again, how so?
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Sophrosyne
Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16
Not to mention the council of Jerusalem where he was on equal footing with the apostles there. I've found that more often than not when Paul is attacked on the level to diminish him it is in an effort to reject his words either in part of totality. Regardless of him being an apostle or not Peter made a strong statement that Paul's words were SCRIPTURE and to reject them would lead to your own destruction... and if Paul's words were to be accepted then Paul himself attests to his apostleship.
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HebrewVaquero
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I'd say at the start the Apostles did give Paul 'the right hand of fellowship' but this is hardly the same as being made a Apostle. Paul declared himself "The Apostle to the Gentiles", perhaps this kind of Apostle doesn't have to meet the same criteria as laid down for Matthias?
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HebrewVaquero
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Actually I accept Peter's words about Paul's writings yet still stand by the post you responded to.
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Sophrosyne
Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16
You bet he was an opportunist, he made every effort to win men to Christ.
1 Corinthians 9:19-23New American Standard Bible (NASB)
19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under a]">[a]the Law, as under b]">[b]the Law though not being myself under c]">[c]the Law, so that I might win those who are under d]">[d]the Law; 21 to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law. 22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some. 23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.
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2KnowHim
Dying to Live
Act 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
Act 9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
Act 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
Don't you believe this Righttruth?
Act 9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
Act 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
Don't you believe this Righttruth?
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HebrewVaquero
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Ok, let's start with something simple:
Is it okay to eat meat sacrificed to idols?
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HebrewVaquero
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No, I just wanted to spare you the explanation. I was hoping you'd figure it out.
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2KnowHim
Dying to Live
Act 26:14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Act 26:15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
Act 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
Act 26:17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
Act 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
If this is The Lord Jesus speaking to Paul here...........then he was chosen to be an Apostle by The Lord.....in vs.17 where he says ..."now I send thee".......it means apostello.
Act 26:15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
Act 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
Act 26:17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
Act 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
If this is The Lord Jesus speaking to Paul here...........then he was chosen to be an Apostle by The Lord.....in vs.17 where he says ..."now I send thee".......it means apostello.
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