Paul Washer

[strelok0017]

I don't usually watch him but there's a video on YouTube called "Calvinism Is Not The Issue". I don't know if pastor Washer preaches on Calvinism or not but he said that he keeps to simple truths and that his main goal is to get people saved. In case someone is wondering there's an interview with some VenomX guy on YouTube in which Paul Washer said this. He rips a lot on worldliness I think but that is for a very good reason. People, especially nowadays, need to hear and live the word of God. Blessed are those who hear the word of God and do it.

 

[a pilgrim]

If he is a faithful pastor, and a Calvinist, he probably does teach the principles of Reformed Theology. I would, too, if I were one. But, Calvinism is NOT the issue, it is the lack of commitment to Christ and worldliness in the churches these days. We've become so cozy with the world, thinking it would help us win the world, that there has developed hardly any difference from the world. Why would an unbeliever need faith, it looks the same.

 

[VCViking]

If he is a faithful pastor, and a Calvinist, he probably does teach the principles of Reformed Theology. I would, too, if I were one. But, Calvinism is NOT the issue, it is the lack of commitment to Christ and worldliness in the churches these days. We've become so cozy with the world, thinking it would help us win the world, that there has developed hardly any difference from the world. Why would an unbeliever need faith, it looks the same.

 

[Hupomone10]

I stand corrected. I missed that in your previous post that you stated you have watched him. My apologies.

Good enough. Apology accepted. Let us agree to disagree seriously but in fun. Hammster and I have managed to find a happy medium somewhere in there

I believe you and I have far more in common than in disagreement. I just went to Ray Comfort's site again today and have to agree with most of what I read by him and Kurt Cameron, and I know you like his ministry. Sorry I'm so outspoken sometimes.

 

[Hupomone10]

Great message. He clearly shows the failure of modern day evangelism.

You should listen before you criticize.

Well, I did, and here is something said in this "great message", but it doesn't "show the failure of modern day evangelism" but instead shows the failure of modern preaching that tries to attack others' ministries using exaggeration and misrepresentation instead of just being truthful and letting God work with the truth. God doesn't need our exaggeration; and He certainly can't use it when we deliberately misrepresent. I know Paul doesn't like the sinner's prayer (he probably prayed it as a youth without meaning it and blames the prayer for his lack of results); but the truth - even when it doesn't further our agenda - is always better.

Before I mention this, I agree that there is a lot of problem with easy believism evangelism being presented today apart from sin, our sinful nature, and judgment because of sin. But even though that exists, Washer chose to directly attack a well-known clear presentation of the gospel that the Holy Spirit has used to lead many thousands and possibly millions to faith in Christ.

He is commenting on what he calls "the basic invitation for men to come to Christ which is most prominent in America today", and here's what he said:

“A standard contemporary invitation: God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life.
Do you know you’re a sinner?
Do you want to go to heaven?
Do you want to pray and ask Jesus to come into your heart?
Did he come in when you prayed?
Were you sincere? You are now a Christian.
Many times this is accompanied by an explanation of all that Jesus can do for the person: fix their life, their marriage, their finances, their self esteem. "

Paul Washer is obviously talking about the 4 Spiritual Laws presentation by Bill Bright's ministry as anyone who knows this will recognize, and can see below.
Law 1:

But he has either never read them, or he is deliberately ignoring what the 2nd law actually says (and does anyone really believe he's never read them?). Compare what the Law says below to what Paul Washer said above:

Instead, Paul Washer talking as the person hearing this imaginary presentation, mockingly says “He will help me with all my plans, and I can have my best life now? Yes! I’ll take a God like that; have you got two of them?”

Everyone can judge for themselves, and please by all means listen to this message yourself, and compare what Paul Washer says to what the 4 Spiritual Laws actually say.

He goes on to mockingly mimmick the person presenting this: “but brother Paul, we don’t MEAN IT that way”, and Washer says “but that’s the way it comes out.”

Is it? Look again at at the above 2nd law.
From one who's had experience sharing the gospel with others in the format of the 4 spiritual laws, no it’s not. Only if the gospel is shared ineffectually; and especially significant in view of Washer’s sermon: only if this gospel tract he’s poo-pooing is shared in a totally contrary way to the way it’s written and intended.

I'll include the rest of the tract, since they allow it to be printed, and since this message by a godly man has been posted here which maligns another godly man, his presentation, and does so deceptively.

Especially read that last paragraph in Law 4.


Again, this is simply to show the man for what he is. I'm sorry; but he didn't have to do that, but he did. I for one am glad I listened to this, for it answered any remaining questions i had about this man. Anyone who will deliberately misrepresent someone's ministry and laugh while doing so, my time is too valuable to waste on such material. But everyone must make up their own mind.

Lastly, (and notice the emphasis on the desire of the heart and the intention of the person's heart):

Is anyone really willing to say that they believe with all their heart that Christ will not save a person and will not come in to indwell the person who repents of their sin, trusts Christ as Savior, and doing so prays this prayer to his new Lord?

 

[twin1954]

Yep I will say it. Those aren't 4 spiritual laws they are 4 spiritual lies. You simply can't trust a Christ that you have never heard of and the one presented in that tract doesn't even come close.

 

[SwordoftheLord]

Its not about saying a Prayer..... Thats not what Paul Washer is saying... Its about how in America we have gotten to the point of saying a 5 min prayer then going to eat....There is no repentance, no true salvation, no sorrow for sins. If you watch a video he explains, that he seen a altar call where people were laughing, joking around, there wasn't a sorrow of their sins, they wanted to say a little prayer and get their ticket to heaven. Easy Believeism has run rampant through America.

Paul Washer isn't against a "sinners" prayer or a altar call, he is against Watered-Down Christianity that has run rampant throughout American Christianity... Come on say this little prayer, Jesus will save you and no matter what happens you will go to heaven, then the person never goes to church, but because they said a prayer when they were 6 or , they are saved no matter what.... These words have made many Lukewarm False Professing Christians... no offense, but a prayer doesn't say you. Believing Faith in Christ work and calling upon him saves you..

My father in law was critical of this same thing you are about Paul Washer, until he went to Romania to do mission work, after coming back he agrees with Paul.. In America we have watered down the Gospel so much and focused on a prayer that we have many "false" Christians who believe they are saved, but in the end will hear "I never knew you."

As for Bill Brights Laws... Paul was using it as an example of how we have made it sooooo easy to get saved. Churches are interested in gaining converts, not true disciples....

Well, I did, and here is something said in this "great message", but it doesn't "show the failure of modern day evangelism" but instead shows the failure of modern preaching that tries to attack others' ministries using exaggeration and misrepresentation instead of just being truthful and letting God work with the truth. God doesn't need our exaggeration; and He certainly can't use it when we deliberately misrepresent. I know Paul doesn't like the sinner's prayer (he probably prayed it as a youth without meaning it and blames the prayer for his lack of results); but the truth - even when it doesn't further our agenda - is always better.

Before I mention this, I agree that there is a lot of problem with easy believism evangelism being presented today apart from sin, our sinful nature, and judgment because of sin. But even though that exists, Washer chose to directly attack a well-known clear presentation of the gospel that the Holy Spirit has used to lead many thousands and possibly millions to faith in Christ.

He is commenting on what he calls "the basic invitation for men to come to Christ which is most prominent in America today", and here's what he said:

“A standard contemporary invitation: God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life.
Do you know you’re a sinner?
Do you want to go to heaven?
Do you want to pray and ask Jesus to come into your heart?
Did he come in when you prayed?
Were you sincere? You are now a Christian.
Many times this is accompanied by an explanation of all that Jesus can do for the person: fix their life, their marriage, their finances, their self esteem. "

Paul Washer is obviously talking about the 4 Spiritual Laws presentation by Bill Bright's ministry as anyone who knows this will recognize, and can see below.
Law 1:

But he has either never read them, or he is deliberately ignoring what the 2nd law actually says (and does anyone really believe he's never read them?). Compare what the Law says below to what Paul Washer said above:

Instead, Paul Washer talking as the person hearing this imaginary presentation, mockingly says “He will help me with all my plans, and I can have my best life now? Yes! I’ll take a God like that; have you got two of them?”

Everyone can judge for themselves, and please by all means listen to this message yourself, and compare what Paul Washer says to what the 4 Spiritual Laws actually say.

He goes on to mockingly mimmick the person presenting this: “but brother Paul, we don’t MEAN IT that way”, and Washer says “but that’s the way it comes out.”

Is it? Look again at at the above 2nd law.
From one who's had experience sharing the gospel with others in the format of the 4 spiritual laws, no it’s not. Only if the gospel is shared ineffectually; and especially significant in view of Washer’s sermon: only if this gospel tract he’s poo-pooing is shared in a totally contrary way to the way it’s written and intended.

I'll include the rest of the tract, since they allow it to be printed, and since this message by a godly man has been posted here which maligns another godly man, his presentation, and does so deceptively.

Especially read that last paragraph in Law 4.


Again, this is simply to show the man for what he is. I'm sorry; but he didn't have to do that, but he did. I for one am glad I listened to this, for it answered any remaining questions i had about this man. Anyone who will deliberately misrepresent someone's ministry and laugh while doing so, my time is too valuable to waste on such material. But everyone must make up their own mind.

Lastly, (and notice the emphasis on the desire of the heart and the intention of the person's heart):

Is anyone really willing to say that they believe with all their heart that Christ will not save a person and will not come in to indwell the person who repents of their sin, trusts Christ as Savior, and doing so prays this prayer to his new Lord?

 

[ThyLovingkindness]

Its not about saying a Prayer..... Thats not what Paul Washer is saying... Its about how in America we have gotten to the point of saying a 5 min prayer then going to eat....There is no repentance, no true salvation, no sorrow for sins. If you watch a video he explains, that he seen a altar call where people were laughing, joking around, there wasn't a sorrow of their sins, they wanted to say a little prayer and get their ticket to heaven. Easy Believeism has run rampant through America.

Paul Washer isn't against a "sinners" prayer or a altar call, he is against Watered-Down Christianity that has run rampant throughout American Christianity... Come on say this little prayer, Jesus will save you and no matter what happens you will go to heaven, then the person never goes to church, but because they said a prayer when they were 6 or , they are saved no matter what.... These words have made many Lukewarm False Professing Christians... no offense, but a prayer doesn't say you. Believing Faith in Christ work and calling upon him saves you..

My father in law was critical of this same thing you are about Paul Washer, until he went to Romania to do mission work, after coming back he agrees with Paul.. In America we have watered down the Gospel so much and focused on a prayer that we have many "false" Christians who believe they are saved, but in the end will hear "I never knew you."

As for Bill Brights Laws... Paul was using it as an example of how we have made it sooooo easy to get saved. Churches are interested in gaining converts, not true disciples....

I totally agree, I think a certain person comes on here with the sole intent of screaming for attention *snore*

I watched Paul Washer preach about that brief prayer you speak of, I also recall in that sermon his emphatically saying that Christians, preachers, etc., need to witness to others with heartfelt knowledge of the Word of God, he wants us to tell folks about God in all His glory and attributes, while spending time doing so. There is much truth to what Paul preaches, and I attribute his intensity to how deeply he cares about those to whom he delivers unabashed Truth... the man doesn't mince words, that's for sure... he is brave. I mean, he's willing to die for the cause of Christ. How many people here can say that, really? I can. Blessings.

 

[Hupomone10]

Yep I will say it. Those aren't 4 spiritual laws they are 4 spiritual lies.

There you have it: the spirit of Paul Washer carried on.

Spiritual lies: man is sinful and separated from God. Jesus Christ is God's only provision for man's sin.

Yeah, I can see that. o NOT!)

However in defense of Washer, I don't think you will ever find him making the statement that these are lies.

You simply can't trust a Christ that you have never heard of and the one presented in that tract doesn't even come close.

And the four spiritual laws presentation never says you can. Straw man. nothing more. It is the last step, not the first steps of planting the seed.

 

[Hupomone10]

Its not about saying a Prayer..... Thats not what Paul Washer is saying... Its about how in America we have gotten to the point of saying a 5 min prayer then going to eat....There is no repentance, no true salvation, no sorrow for sins.

Paul Washer isn't against a "sinners" prayer or a altar call, he is against Watered-Down Christianity that has run rampant throughout American Christianity...

As a matter of fact, he specifically says he gets more flack for his opinion of this sinner's prayer position than anything else. So, yes, he is against the sinner's prayer, brother. But I agree with much of what you said and agree with your point here, which is about the way people present the gospel and the way people reach out to embrace an easy believism. Incidentally, that was done so prevalently in the days of Charles Finney, the great revivalist, that that is a major reason he started the practice of the "anxious seat", a row at the front where people under conviction but not yet having embraced Christ as Savior, sat. Regardless of flaws, he recognized the rampant disease infecting the church of that day where they could simply embrace the Calvinist system and think they were elect and saved.

It's the presentation and the heart of the person, not the practice of introducing them to Christ in prayer or their having their first sincere conversation with the Lord.

Let us remember how often Jesus said "come to Me." There is nothing wrong with a repentant heart in faith coming to Christ in prayer. I think He wants that. He wants prayer "unceasingly" AFTER salvation, why not initially?

Come on say this little prayer, Jesus will save you and no matter what happens you will go to heaven, then the person never goes to church, but because they said a prayer when they were 6 or , they are saved no matter what.... These words have made many Lukewarm False Professing Christians... no offense, but a prayer doesn't say you. Believing Faith in Christ work and calling upon him saves you..

Agreed.

Here is the paragraph from the 4 spiritual laws I asked people to be sure not to miss:

If Washer just gave a presentation of how to do it right and spent more time on that instead of trying to ridicule another godly and successful evangelist, Bill Bright, and his method and, most importantly, misrepresenting it leaving out his 2nd Law altogether, I would be ok with it.

I hoped when I started listening to it to be pleasantly surprised, for that would be easier than receiving all this flack. But instead, it was apparently par for the course with him whenever he gets onto this subject. I have no use for pastors that criticize their fellow pastors in the ministry instead of presenting the truth. When a pastor consistently is saying "they do such-and-such," instead of "we should do such-and-such" it's a big red flag IMHO.

The way people are trained to detect counterfeit currency, so I'm told, is by knowing the genuine so well. That could apply here.

Easy Believeism has run rampant through America.

That's what I'm saying.

And so is Bill Bright; but you wouldn't know it if all one does is listen to Paul Washer.

 

[twin1954]

There you have it: the spirit of Paul Washer carried on.

Spiritual lies: man is sinful and separated from God. Jesus Christ is God's only provision for man's sin.

Yeah, I can see that. o NOT!)

However in defense of Washer, I don't think you will ever find him making the statement that these are lies.

And the four spiritual laws presentation never says you can. Straw man. nothing more. It is the last step, not the first steps of planting the seed.

So those 4spiritual lies don't present a christ that wants to save you but can't unless you do something? They are centered on you and not on Christ. The christ that they set forth is a wimp amd a useless figment of the depraved imagination of men. The love of the god they offer is nothing but a pointless emotion that wishes, wants and tries but can't accomplish anything except man give it power by his acts. Actually read the Bible and find out how God always declares Himself. He never once says He wants, wishes or tries to do anything. He always says "I will" and usually follows it with " you shall". My God is in the heavens and hath done whatsoever He has pleased. Psas. 115:3
He rules among the armies of Heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth and none can stay His hand or say to Him what doest Thou? Dan. 4:35
Read Isa. 40 where He contrasts His own majesty and sovereignty to the idols of mens' depraved imaginations.

No, the true love of God is not only able to accomplish the best for the object of its love but does so. His love sent a successful Savior who Loved us and gave Himself for us. He actually did something He didn't just make it possible to be if you will take the last step. He saved a people from their sin. Matt. 1:21 He did all that was required of God for us to not only have communion with Him but to inherit glory and eternal bliss. The sin the the Lord Jesus bore in His own body on that tree is gone. It can never be found again even by God who sees all things everywhere. He so thouruoghly puged the sin of those He represented that it is said to be no more, it no longer exists. Becuse of the infinitely successful death of Christ on behalf of sinners God cannot punish those for whom Christ died.

You may notice that in those instances where Christ says come unto Me He first declares His greatness and sovreignty. Matt. 11:25-30

There is no salvation in a false god or a false christ. It makes no difference that the majority have followed after him. They have gone down the broad road that leads to destruction. They are the simple ones caught by the harlot in Prov. 7 and know not it is for their life.


The simple truth is that the god of modern freewill works religion is no God. He waits on man and desires things for man but cannot do anything that man doesn't give Him permission to do. Natural man will always set himself up as God and will not bow to the only true and living God.
If you want to find and know God you must go to the only place He is known, Christ. When you come to Him you will not be accepted unless you come in awe of His greatness and sovereignty as God. You will not approach the High and Holy One sitting on a throne with your head held high and you chest puffed out. Christ always comes first to the sinner as a conquering King before He comes as the Comforting Savior.


BTW, I may have heard 1/2 a sermon by Paul Washer. If he is preaching the Gospel of Christ as He is revealed in the Scriptures I am glad God has raised him up in our generation.

 

[SoulBap6]

What are your thoughts on Paul Washer and his preaching?

I love it under the circumstances, Preaching to a Youth rally in Alabama and the way the youth were reacting. I dare say I would have reacted to the same way. The seventh Chapter of Matthew was an excellant Choice. I loved his Opening Statement that he was talking about the people who were in the Auditorum. American Christianity has become very lax in that many Christians are turning a Blind eye to following the world.

People want shorter services, to be entertained when they go to Church. and want the service, a Scaled back version of what I want to hear. Church is Not a Country club for Saints but a Hosptial for Sinners. Spending more time behind a TV set, than in the word of God, Computer or on Video Games. Paul was a unknown person till someone Showed this on the Internet. Paul only reinforced what a few of us Christians were thinking. The seculiar world has invaded and we have responded. Letting the Flesh get in the way of the Spirit.

Do you believe that he has any erroneous teaching or is he the real deal?

From all that I have seen so far I believe Paul is the real deal, He was Criticised for things he Said during his preaching in the youth Rally. The majority of what he said was the truth so if he said something that was a little out of Context, it because of what was going on during this time. He explained in other Videos.

Its time Preachers took off the pleasing sermons and get down to preaching the Gospel as the lord would Have them preach it. Truth, without reservantion. Sin, Repentance,Heaven and Hell, Discipleship, Salvation and what it really means, Commit to following Jesus Christ taking up their Cross and following him. Surrendering to do what God lays on your heart to service of the Lord. Stop being a bench warmer and become active in serving the Lord. God did not save us to sit on the side lines, he does have a job for you.

When Church becomes to when, no one wants to come, then the Lord won't show up, but as I was traveling by a Baseball Game on Sunday and a Park not far from my House on my way to Church. The thought occurred to me if all these people showed up to Church we would not have the room to hold all these people. What a wonderful thought but the reality is that the games and activites of the world are more important than God. With all the communications we have at are finger tips, and all the distraction. Do we still have time for Jesus?

 

[greatdivide46]

I find it odd when considering the sinner's prayer that everything leading up to it is completely Biblical. On the inside front cover of my Sunday School book there is an acronym for FAITH. Each of the letters stands for something Biblical that leads to salvation and there are copious scripture references with each one. But when we come to the "H" which stands for "how" the sinner's prayer is given as the how, but nary a scripture reference in the whole paragraph. Seems odd to me that everything necessary for salvation to occur is backed up by Scripture except the sinner's prayer. Maybe that's because the sinner's prayer is not a biblical way of salvation.

 

[strelok0017]

Main reason it is not biblical is because it does not distinguish saving faith merely from accepting a couple facts. The Bible has a lot more to say on what saving faith looks like unlike sinners prayer, which I've never seen in my life but heard many talk in those terms.

We have to let people know what is the saving faith and the problem with this "prayer" is that it does not include discipleship at all. It's tricky because the part it gives is sort of Biblical in a sense that they confirm facts. That is well and good but what is not good and in fact evil is that nowhere in the sinner's prayer does it say that you have to obey therefore giving only half the picture. I may be wrong with my last remark but I know I'm not wrong with this: saving faith is far more than having your sins forgiven and if Paul Washer is correct then those who make others say a couple words introduce people to a distorted gospel which Paul Washer calls it. A distorted gospel means that it did originate in the Gospel and indeed it is a part of it but a huge part of the picture is missing. What's essentially wrong with it is that it gives people a wrong taste of Christianity and if having your sins forgiven is the only difference from the world then why have your passions and motives changed? That is a huge error of this so called "prayer". I'd go further to call it something else but that might be too much.

God bless everyone!

 

[SwordoftheLord]

As a matter of fact, he specifically says he gets more flack for his opinion of this sinner's prayer position than anything else. So, yes, he is against the sinner's prayer, brother. But I agree with much of what you said and agree with your point here, which is about the way people present the gospel and the way people reach out to embrace an easy believism. Incidentally, that was done so prevalently in the days of Charles Finney, the great revivalist, that that is a major reason he started the practice of the "anxious seat", a row at the front where people under conviction but not yet having embraced Christ as Savior, sat. Regardless of flaws, he recognized the rampant disease infecting the church of that day where they could simply embrace the Calvinist system and think they were elect and saved.

He gets flack because of his position " on " it not being against it.. His position is that we have done to make it so easy. I know many baptist that barely use the verses anymore, they just ask brief questions.. Pauls point is that we must preach the Gospel correctly to them, not water it down into 4 simple questions such as...

Do you know your a sinner?
Would you like to recieve Christ..

We have made it so easy, that many of those who have said the prayer were not humble and repentant.

It's the presentation and the heart of the person, not the practice of introducing them to Christ in prayer or their having their first sincere conversation with the Lord.
I agree with this.. However a sinner after hearing the gospel and going to a altar call I dont think should be joking with buddies, laughing, etc like its no big deal, thats the problem Paul has with it..

Let us remember how often Jesus said "come to Me." There is nothing wrong with a repentant heart in faith coming to Christ in prayer. I think He wants that. He wants prayer "unceasingly" AFTER salvation, why not initially?
yet again Paul Washer and myself would agree with you on this one... Your looking into it to deep because he attacked that we have made it too easy and too simple that many arent getting what salvation really is..

Agreed.

Here is the paragraph from the 4 spiritual laws I asked people to be sure not to miss:

If Washer just gave a presentation of how to do it right and spent more time on that instead of trying to ridicule another godly and successful evangelist, Bill Bright, and his method and, most importantly, misrepresenting it leaving out his 2nd Law altogether, I would be ok with it.

I hoped when I started listening to it to be pleasantly surprised, for that would be easier than receiving all this flack. But instead, it was apparently par for the course with him whenever he gets onto this subject. I have no use for pastors that criticize their fellow pastors in the ministry instead of presenting the truth. When a pastor consistently is saying "they do such-and-such," instead of "we should do such-and-such" it's a big red flag IMHO.

The way people are trained to detect counterfeit currency, so I'm told, is by knowing the genuine so well. That could apply here.
That's what I'm saying.

And so is Bill Bright; but you wouldn't know it if all one does is listen to Paul Washer.

I know, and I dont listen to Bill Bright, and I listen to alot of Paul Washer.... You are looking into it to deep as Paul attacking the Biblical Basis behind Brights 4 Laws... Its not that... He is attacking Pastors today who make salvation a 3 min thing, with no true salvation.....

The Bible says to "test yourself whether you be in the faith", today many dont test because when they were 5 they said a prayer.... and have lived like the Devil for their whole lives... thats what Paul is attacking.

Personally I have no problem with Bill Brights "Laws", however I think they should be done correctly, not watered down and done like they are in many churches today... I know Pastors who dont even use the bible verses, instead they just ask..

Do you know your a Sinner?
Do you know Sin will send you to Hell?
Do you want to be saved?
All you do is ask Jesus into your heart with this Prayer.

Thats it....
Faith Comes by Hearing... But hearing what? THE WORD of God, not simple questions like those... Paul is attacking that.

 

[SwordoftheLord]

BTW Paul is NOT Against the Sinners Prayer! I have seen him issue a Altar Call and lead someone through it before....

 

[Hupomone10]

Personally I have no problem with Bill Brights "Laws", however I think they should be done correctly, not watered down and done like they are in many churches today... I know Pastors who dont even use the bible verses, instead they just ask..

Do you know your a Sinner?
Do you know Sin will send you to Hell?
Do you want to be saved?
All you do is ask Jesus into your heart with this Prayer.

Thats it....
Faith Comes by Hearing... But hearing what? THE WORD of God, not simple questions like those... Paul is attacking that.

Yes, I feel he is also, and I agree with you brother. I would have no problem with him if he hadn't taken the first point of Bill Bright's tract almost verbatim and then added his own SBC moderate version of it as though that is what Bill's ministry presented. It is good when one attacks the idea of asking someone if they want to be saved before they even know they're lost. But it can be just as wrong to leave a person in left field under conviction of the Holy Spirit and tell them to "just believe in Christ" when they are unchurched and don't really have a clue what that means or IF they've believed, how to go through that narrow gate of entering into Christ, and just tell them "if they were really converted their works will show it." Imagine telling someone addicted to crack or pornography that. In fact, that's all the follow-up many of them receive.

Let's not forget the example of Apollos in the book of Acts:

Acts 18:24-26
24 Now a Jew named Apollos...came to Ephesus; and he was mighty in the Scriptures.

25 This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he was speaking and teaching accurately the things concerning Jesus, being acquainted only with the baptism of John;

And what was the reaction of the Spirit-filled saved couple who met him? Did they just let him be, assuming that if he is meant to come to saving faith he would? No.

26 and he began to speak out boldly in the synagogue. But when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately.


It isn't recorded that they got him to "pray the sinner's prayer", but they certainly gave him accurate instruction about Jesus, and they didn't have the letter of Romans to refer to since it wasn't written yet. So they couldn't just sit back complacently and think "since faith comes by hearing, then we don't have to get involved because if he reads the word long enough faith will surely come if he's elect."
They gave him their version of the 4 spiritual laws concerning Christ and and the importance of faith in Christ as Savior, not just repentance...

We don't talk much about this, but first century evangelism involved leading the person immediately to baptism in the name of Jesus; and that is how they showed their profession of faith. That is how they acted on it. We don't make much of that out of fear that others will misunderstand and think baptism somehow has a part in salvation. It has no more part in actual regenerating salvation than the sinner's prayer, but they unfailingly had new believers make the public statement of their faith. The ethiopian eunuch understood the importance of expressing his newfound faith, for we read in Acts 8:
36 and the eunuch said, "Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?"
37 And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
38 And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him.

That's all the sinner's prayer is, not a means of salvation or as Twin1954 has wrongly inferred, something the person thinks he can do to get saved. It is just getting him/her in touch with the Lord they think they believe in, and nails the issue down in their mind if nowhere else.

It might be better if we still immediately baptized those who come to faith in Christ as the first century church did. But the response of today - a reactionary response to the sinner's prayer being done wrongly - of doing NOTHING with the person who has come under conviction and wants to "confess with their mouth the Lord Jesus" (Romans 10:9), neither leading them to tell the Lord in prayer of this point of faith they've come to OR being baptized in His Name, is far worse IMHO than leading them to pray a prayer to the Lord who said "pray without ceasing."

 

[Hupomone10]

BTW Paul is NOT Against the Sinners Prayer! I have seen him issue a Altar Call and lead someone through it before....

Really! LOL!

Maybe he's just against others using it.

Blessings,
H.

 

[SwordoftheLord]

Really! LOL!

Maybe he's just against others using it.

Blessings,
H.

Yep, because many are doing it incorrecrly

 

[greatdivide46]

Re: Post #57. At least baptism is biblical. The sinner's prayer is not.