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Featured Paul Washer - What does he mean when he said?....

Discussion in 'Christian Advice' started by Ben Collyer, May 18, 2017.

  1. Ben Collyer

    Ben Collyer Member

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    watch the video starting at 4:50 and ending at 6:10

    Basically he says that if the thought of the cross does not move you then your heart is dead and you know not God.

    Washer has just destroyed my assurance of salvation, and therefore my joy, and therefore made me useless and fruitless as a christian

    because sometimes I DO feel apathetic towards the cross, I dont weep with gratitude everytime I think about it, In fact I rarely think about the cross. so what gives washer the right to say im not saved if I dont feel this and this or that and that?
     
  2. eldios

    eldios Member

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    Paul Washer is a false prophet who is only interested in his selfish motive to draw people to himself instead of preaching the voice of God like all us chosen servants do. You won't hear any knowledge of God called Christ coming from his mouth.
     
  3. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Senior Member Supporter

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    Hi Ben, I don't think I'd let someone else's words, even a preacher of Washer's caliber, destroy your assurance, because that should not be what you base your assurance on, should it? I haven't heard a lot of Washer's sermons, but like many preachers, he says things in ways that are meant to shake loose some of the cobwebs up there and help men/women think more clearly/seriously/intentionally than we often do.

    It is Biblical, after all, to call our salvation into question. In fact, we are all commanded to do that very thing, and should do so regularly .. 2 Corinthians 13:5. And sermons like Washer's are meant to help us see some of the reasons why we should (especially if the command itself is not enough to cause us to obey it ;)).

    So the real question is, what should our assurance be based on? What questions should we ask of ourselves to make sure that we are in the faith?

    This quote comes to mind (I, in fact, just dropped it into a "Quotes" thread here at CF recently):

    The regenerate are saved through persevering in faith and Christian living to the end (Hebrews 3:6; 6:11; 10:35–39), and it is God who keeps them persevering. That does not mean that all who ever professed conversion will be saved. False professions are made; short-term enthusiasts fall away (Matthew 13:20-22); many who say to Jesus, “Lord, Lord,” will not be acknowledged (Matthew 7:21-23). Only those who show themselves to be regenerate by pursuing heart-holiness and true neighbor-love as they pass through this world are entitled to believe themselves secure in Christ. ~Dr. J. I. Packer
    I guess one of the first things to consider is this, do you think God knew what He was getting Himself into when He saved you? If you do, then think about this: were you are a greater sinner before you became a Christian (and did you lead a much more sinful lifestyle back then), or are things about the same now, or are you perhaps even deeper into sin than you used to be?

    I ask this for two reasons: 1) if you are less of a sinner now, what reason would God have to reject you, especially when you consider that He accepted you as His own in a far more sinful condition than you are in now (when you were outside of Christ)? (that's assuming for a moment that the One who "justifies the wicked" .. Romans 4:5, would ever "reject" one of His own .. He won't .. John 6:37-40; John 10:27-28) 2) if you are the same or worse than you were before you believed you became a Christian, then I would immediately take time to evaluate whether or not you are the Christian you claim/believe yourself to be!

    There's a whole bunch more that we can take a look at, but I'll stop here with that for now. Just know this, a Christian is someone who God has given a new heart and new spirit to .. Ezekiel 36:26, who He has quickened from spiritual death to spiritual life .. Ephesians 2:1-5, who He caused to be "born again" .. John 3:3, and who He has made into a wholly "new creature" in His Son .. 2 Corinthians 5:17. IOW, big changes occur when someone becomes a Christian :amen:

    If there is evidence of a change*, then chances are very good that one's "claim" of becoming a Christian is valid. If there is no evidence however, especially when such profound changes* normally occur, then chances are good that such a "claim" may not be valid :preach:

    *(just to be very clear, if you became a Christian as a young child (under 12, let's say), such changes may be there, but they will normally not be evident, not like they are in a teenager or adult who comes to Christ)

    BTW, it is not my intention to scare you with any of this, but it is my hope that it will get you to think ;)

    Here is some good news to remember: It's the clear intention of the One who saved you in the first place to continue His great work in you, grow you up in Christ, and see you through this life to Glory :amen:

    Philippians 1:6/2:13
    I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus .. for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

    God bless you! (Numbers 6:24-26)

    --David
    p.s. - it's been my experience that only true Christians worry about their condition or status in the faith, whether they are pleasing God, whether they are sinning or not, etc., which is something you are doing these days, yes :)



    "He is able also to save forever those who draw near
    to God through Him, since He always lives
    to make intercession for them"

    Hebrews 7:25
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  4. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Senior Member Supporter

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    One last thing, I wouldn't consider too deeply the message from any one sermon, especially if all you know is a small excerpt from the beginning of it (I believe the part you had us listen to amounted to about 60 seconds of a 60 minute sermon). Just like the Bible, it's always better to understand things within the greater context.

    If you're really upset and you think a lot of his preaching, then I think you should write him or call him about it. You are both brothers in Christ, so I have no doubt that he will talk to you, especially if you tell him how deeply a portion of his sermon affected you!
     
  5. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    And that's why the preaching of the Law cannot save, and it cannot deliver assurance and hope; only the Gospel can do that. To place the onus upon the sinner to feel the right things, say the right things, do the right things, believe the right things; rather than the onus being on what Christ has done for us is to preach a false message, an obfuscation of the Gospel, and a false bill of goods that shipwreck our faith.

    As far as I'm aware Paul Washer is part of the "Lordship Salvation" crowd.

    Find your hope in Christ, He saves you. There is in Him true hope, assurance, and life everlasting. In this life you will remain a sinner; do not look to yourself for your hope, because you will not find it there. Find it in Christ alone, Christ alone saves you. Trust this, for it is certainly true.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  6. Ben Collyer

    Ben Collyer Member

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    Are you willing to speak to me via facebook or some other medium? id like to here more of what you have to say regarding this...
     
  7. Hammster

    Hammster It's sorta social. Staff Member Administrator Supporter

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    ADMIN HAT ON


    Please remember to only address the OP.


    ADMIN HAT OFF
     
  8. Alpha-Omega

    Alpha-Omega New Member

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    I think you have misunderstood what he is saying here. He is not saying that every time you hear about the cross of Jesus Christ, you must be moved to tears or feel sorrow in your heart. He is stating a fact, that if a Christian were to her a powerful message on the cross of Jesus Christ, and what Jesus went through for sinners, and the pain and agony that He suffered, and you were unmoved, then yes, it is very questionable what sort of believer that person is. Paul Washer is a very good preacher, who reminds me of the Prophet Jeremiah, in that his messages were that of warnings to believers. The Christian Faith is not light-weight, of some easy-going-life, as some falsely teach, but that of great sacrifice and even suffering for each true believer.
     
  9. Alpha-Omega

    Alpha-Omega New Member

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    Who removed my comment?
     
  10. Alpha-Omega

    Alpha-Omega New Member

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    Someone removed my last comment which seems to show that they are content with people calling godly Christians "false prophets"? I repeat again, the remarks of eldios are complete rubbish!
     
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  11. St_Worm2

    St_Worm2 Senior Member Supporter

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    Hi Ben, you don't have enough posts to use CF's private messaging service yet (at least I don't think you do), or that would be the easiest way to go.

    I have a fairly anonymous email address, even so, I don't want to post it on the open boards for a number of reasons.

    I'll get back to you later today. I'm sure there's a way (unless you want to get busy making a few posts ;)).

    @Hammster, would you tell us how many posts and likes you have to have to send/receive PM's?

    Thanks Brother :)

    --David
     
  12. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Maybe Washer just sets a higher goal post for us?
    He is a hard core preacher who according to the Bible is hard to argue with.
    M-Bob
     
  13. Alpha-Omega

    Alpha-Omega New Member

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    Yes, and we need more like him, and less like Andy Stanley, who is a false teacher
     
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  14. Hammster

    Hammster It's sorta social. Staff Member Administrator Supporter

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    ADMIN HAT ON


    One last time. Address the OP only. This is not a debate forum. We have places for that.


    ADMIN HAT OFF
     
  15. Serving Zion

    Serving Zion Seek First His Kingdom & Righteousness Supporter

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    Hi bro, I want to help you with this, don't be so easily tossed about like Ephesians 4:14 describes. Let's work on your doctrinal foundation to make it solid, then you'll see that what he's saying is very truthful and agreeable (although his doctrinal foundation is questionable - more soon).

    If you truly knew Jesus, and you knew how perfectly graceful, merciful, kind, loving, truthful person He is, and then what they did to Him, what Our Heavenly Father had to watch (selah), will you stop for a moment and picture it?
    If you do not feel deep reverence for what Jesus did, then probably it is that you don't really grasp it properly. In fact, as he goes on to say further on, around the 15 minute mark, he is describing God as having punished Jesus for our sins - even going so far as to say that our sins were imputed onto Jesus, and then even saying that "God treated Jesus as the Righteous should treat the wicked".

    I wonder then, whether you maybe have believed this sort of doctrine. This sort of doctrine can make salvation seem like a transaction, so that there's not really any choice about it. I reckon something about the way you are seeing it just doesn't really add up to fit the picture of a loving God. Am I heading in the right direction with this? Tell me more about what exactly doesn't add-up to make perfect sense for you.
     
  16. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Well-Known Member Supporter

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    To the OP I wouldn't let Paul Washers preaching worry me too much.
    His usual message is that we fall short and that is the truth.
    Sometimes it's good for this Christian man to get his butt cheeks hurt a little.
    Paul said that, "he was the chief sinner."
    I think that I'm the chief sinner.
    Maybe we should all feel that way?

    Most important -- don't give up -- and finish the Good Race.

    Many blessings sent,
    M-Bob
     
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  17. Mountainmanbob

    Mountainmanbob Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You can't give them the Good News until you give them the bad news.

    Paul is excellent at this.

    True, many don't care for his style of preaching.

    He often rocks my boat -- better that being complacent.

    M-Bob
     
  18. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

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    1 Corinthians 2:2
    2 For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.


    1 Corinthians 1:18
    18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.


    Well, shame on him, then, eh? Rotten of him to place such a high emphasis upon the greatest deed recorded in all of human history. What is the cross next to your positive feeling about your salvation?

    And shouldn't you feel at least uncomfortable about this? Surely, the cross of Christ does not deserve your apathy!

    Is what is normal for you what ought to be normal? Not from what I can see in Scripture. The cross of Christ ought to bring you to tears - not because it is a symbol of your guilt and shame, but because it is a symbol of the magnificent and incredible love and grace of God toward you who deserves nothing from Him but His wrath and judgment.

    Galatians 6:14
    14 But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.


    Inasmuch as the cross of Christ is central to the Gospel and the life of every genuine believer, that you rarely think on it suggests, at least, that there is something terribly wrong with your walk with God. Are you not saved? That I can't say - and neither can Paul Washer. But as St. Worm2 has already remarked, it is very important (eternally so, really) to "examine yourself whether you be in the faith." (2 Cor. 13:5)

    Selah.
     
  19. LoricaLady

    LoricaLady YHWH's

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    I do not think our Savior wants us to morbidly be focused on the Cross. Yes, we can reflect on all that and be grateful. But He is risen! He has moved on! It sounds to me like that guy in the vid is on a control trip through using guilt. Ignore him. As we are told, there will be wolves in sheep's clothing, always.
     
  20. JayW

    JayW Well-Known Member

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    Ben,

    When you get the time, please read the attached link. It is a very detailed explanation of what Jesus went through from a physician's point of view. Scourging and crucifixion are somewhat abstract concepts to us, but this should help drive home the horrors Christ suffered to redeem us.

    A Physician's View of the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ
     
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