Paul vs James who is right?

[mark kennedy]

I’ll make it simple for ya . .
Paul teaches justification by FAITH ALONE . Ever hear of ‘sola fide’?
The other apostles taught justification by faith PLUS WORKS.

Nonsense, Paul taught justification by grace through faith apart from works of the law, so did James. Your making it simple alright, your oversimplifying the issues and ignoring the context of crucial proof texts.

 

[Rita G.]

Nonsense, Paul taught justification by grace through faith apart from works of the law, so did James.

James 2:24 King James Version (KJV)
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

 

[Sam91]

James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness" and he was called God’s friend.

 

[mark kennedy]

James 2:24 King James Version (KJV)
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

I'm well aware of that, are you aware of the context?

 

[Rita G.]

I'm well aware of that, are you aware of the context?

James wrote to Jews Ja1:1 . they were under covenant.
Paul was the apostle to the gentiles (Ro 11:13) and his ministry was NOT under covenant.

 

[mark kennedy]

James wrote to Jews Ja1:1 . they were under covenant.
Paul was the apostle to the gentiles (Ro 11:13) and his ministry was NOT under covenant.

The book of Romans was to a community of Jews in Rome that were converted at Pentecost, it's understood by most scholars that James was talking to a largely Jewish crowd. Paul was an apostle to the Gentiles but he was clear, there is no difference. James 2 and 1 Corinthians 11 are dealing with the exact same issue, how rich Christians were treating poor Christians. I know the text says like the back of my hand and there is no contradiction unless your just cherry picking isolated texts out of context, which is exactly what your doing.

 

[1213]

When the wider context is considered, I think we are safe to see Romans 4:5 as saying, "But to him who doesn't work [with a mindset as if to try to earn salvation], but [instead] believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness."

For if that were not true then far too many other statements of Scripture would suddenly have become meaningless. For example John 14:21 and John 14:24.

Yes, I think everything should be kept from the Bible. And in the case of Romans 4:5, it is good to think, what faith means, as it has always been the reason why righteous will live.

Behold, his soul is puffed up. It is not upright in him, but the righteous will live by his faith.
Habakkuk 2:4

Now that no man is justified by the law before God is evident, for, "The righteous will live by faith."
Galatians 3:11

 

[redleghunter]

You need context? Read Romans . . and then read James . . the context will tell you who they’re written to.

Does your church teach there are two gospels? One for the Gentiles and one for the Jews?

 

[redleghunter]

James wrote to Jews Ja1:1 . they were under covenant.
Paul was the apostle to the gentiles (Ro 11:13) and his ministry was NOT under covenant.

There is only One Gospel (Luke 24:44-50 and 1 Corinthians 15)

 

[Rita G.]

The book of Romans was to a community of Jews in Rome that were converted at Pentecost, it's understood by most scholars that James was talking to a largely Jewish crowd. Paul was an apostle to the Gentiles but he was clear, there is no difference. James 2 and 1 Corinthians 11 are dealing with the exact same issue, how rich Christians were treating poor Christians. I know the text says like the back of my hand and there is no contradiction unless your just cherry picking isolated texts out of context, which is exactly what your doing.

"James wrote to Jews Ja1:1 . they were under covenant.
Paul was the apostle to the gentiles (Ro 11:13) and his ministry was NOT under covenant."

Is this true or false?

 

[mark kennedy]

"James wrote to Jews Ja1:1 . they were under covenant.
Paul was the apostle to the gentiles (Ro 11:13) and his ministry was NOT under covenant."

Is this true or false?

Paul was about as Hebrew of the Hebrews as you can get, he never shunned the Old Testament covenant just realized how it had changed. Paul, Peter and James were all at the Jerusalem Council and were in agreement about the inclusion of the Gentiles so that's a moot point. I've made the point repeatedly that Paul and James are dealing with the same exact thing in James 2 and 1 Corinthians 11, did you miss that or deliberately intend to distract from that key point?

 

[Rita G.]

did you miss that or deliberately intend to distract from that key point?

the key point here is the OP and my posts address that.

"James wrote to Jews Ja1:1 . they were under covenant.
Paul was the apostle to the gentiles (Ro 11:13) and his ministry was NOT under covenant."

Is this true or false?

 

[mark kennedy]

the key point here is the OP and my posts address that.

"James wrote to Jews Ja1:1 . they were under covenant.
Paul was the apostle to the gentiles (Ro 11:13) and his ministry was NOT under covenant."

Is this true or false?

This is what your offering:

James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations: Greetings. (James 1:1)

I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry (Romans 11:13)​

Nothing about a covenant and certainly nothing in either writing that supports what your fabricating.

False!

 

[Rita G.]

prove that jews were NOT under covenant. . and then prove that gentiles were.

 

[Rita G.]

, To the twelve tribes

I am talking to you Gentiles

fabricating huh?
you don't see a difference here?

 

[mark kennedy]

fabricating huh?
you don't see a difference here?

Nope

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. (Gal. 3:28)​

Neither did Paul.

 

[RDKirk]

You need context? Read Romans . . and then read James . . the context will tell you who they’re written to.

They are both written to the Body of Christ...then and today.

 

[mark kennedy]

prove that jews were NOT under covenant. . and then prove that gentiles were.

God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? (Acts 15: 8-10)
​

How's that?

 

[mark kennedy]

do you have a problem with being honest?
prove that jews were NOT under covenant. . and then prove that gentiles were.

Did you forget we are talking about actual text? Your caught in a downward spiral and your arguments will do nothing but shrink now. It's a sad thing to see but go ahead, make my day.

 

[Rita G.]

you still can't :
"prove that jews were NOT under covenant. . and then prove that gentiles were."
c'mon dude, . . .
or maybe you just . . can't