Paul as a Christian claims to live as a consistent Pharisee

[bbbbbbb]

This means Paul does not believe that following the Law alone will get him salvation. It does NOT mean he disobeyed the Law. He testifies under oath in Acts that he has kept every law.

If so, then he was either completely deceived or lying. I rather doubt he kept any of the laws related to women's issues.

 

[Soyeong]

If so, then he was either completely deceived or lying. I rather doubt he kept any of the laws related to women's issues.

Paul wasn't required to keep those laws.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Paul wasn't required to keep those laws.

OpenHeart asserted that Paul kept every law. She did not exclude any, did she? I was addressing her assertion.

 

[Soyeong]

OpenHeart asserted that Paul kept every law. She did not exclude any, did she? I was addressing her assertion.

Acts 21:24 take these men and purify yourself along with them and pay their expenses, so that they may shave their heads. Thus all will know that there is nothing in what they have been told about you, but that you yourself also live in observance of the law.

Do you think by saying that Paul lived in observance of the law that included those laws in regard to women's issues?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Acts 21:24 take these men and purify yourself along with them and pay their expenses, so that they may shave their heads. Thus all will know that there is nothing in what they have been told about you, but that you yourself also live in observance of the law.

Do you think by saying that Paul lived in observance of the law that included those laws in regard to women's issues?

You are asking the wrong person. OpenHeart is the one who made the assertion. Perhaps she will answer the question for us.

 

[Soyeong]

You are asking the wrong person. OpenHeart is the one who made the assertion. Perhaps she will answer the question for us.

Or you could just understand that there are obvious exceptions.

 

[Open Heart]

If so, then he was either completely deceived or lying. I rather doubt he kept any of the laws related to women's issues.

Paul was single. It was not necessary for him to keep the laws of Niddah. Your comment is very strange.

 

[BobRyan]

If so, then he was either completely deceived or lying. I rather doubt he kept any of the laws related to women's issues.

What you imagine is not the point here. You are free to imagine anything you wish.

If you have a Bible fact that shows that Paul was breaking God's commandments - please show it.

 

[BobRyan]

Basically Paul claims to be a Messianic Jew

Paul claims to be a Jew even after becoming a Christian - and says this is also true of Peter

In Acts 21 - James is squarely in favor of Messianic Jews to the point of instructing Paul to participate in a ceremonial vow.

In Gal 2
11 Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.

14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles

Acts 23:6
But perceiving that one group were Sadducees and the other Pharisees, Paul began crying out in the Council, "Brethren, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees; I am on trial for the hope and resurrection of the dead!"

Acts 13
14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and sat down. 15 And after the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, “Men and brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.”

16 Then Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said, “Men of Israel, and you who fear God, listen:

QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68604514, member: 235244"]Although Paul was certainly not under the condemnation of the Law as a born again New Covenant Christian - yet he also was not devoted to rebellion against the Law of God -

What is encouraging is that the span from Acts 21-28 gives a great view of how Paul declared his own practice "under oath" and before both Jews and gentiles starting with clarification of his teaching for his fellow Messianic Jews.



Acts 21
24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law

Acts 24
14But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets


Acts 25
8 while he answered for himself, “Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I offended in anything at all.;


Acts 26
Therefore, having obtained help from God, to this day I stand, witnessing both to small and great, saying no other things than those which the prophets and Moses said would come; 23 that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim light to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles;

Acts 28
17 And it came to pass after three days that Paul called the leaders of the Jews together. So when they had come together, he said to them: Men and brethren, though I have done nothing against our people or the customs of our fathers, yet I was delivered as a prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans,... I have called for you, to see you and speak with you, because for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.
...
23 So when they had appointed him a day, many came to him at his lodging, to whom he explained and solemnly testified of the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus from both the Law of Moses and the Prophets, from morning till evening

================ and so for New Covenant Christians.

"I will write My LAW on their mind and heart" Jer 31:31-33 Heb 8:6-10
"if you Love Me KEEP My commandments" John 14:15
"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

Can't leave scripture inside quotes - since some have a difficult time reading scripture as it is.


In Acts 21 - James is squarely in favor of Messianic Jews to the point of instructing Paul to participate in a ceremonial vow.

In Gal 2
11 Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.

14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles

Acts 23:6
But perceiving that one group were Sadducees and the other Pharisees, Paul began crying out in the Council, "Brethren, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees; I am on trial for the hope and resurrection of the dead!"

Acts 13
14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and sat down. 15 And after the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, “Men and brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.”

16 Then Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said, “Men of Israel, and you who fear God, listen:

QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68604514, member: 235244"]Although Paul was certainly not under the condemnation of the Law as a born again New Covenant Christian - yet he also was not devoted to rebellion against the Law of God -

What is encouraging is that the span from Acts 21-28 gives a great view of how Paul declared his own practice "under oath" and before both Jews and gentiles starting with clarification of his teaching for his fellow Messianic Jews.



Acts 21
24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law

Acts 24
14But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets


Acts 25
8 while he answered for himself, “Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I offended in anything at all.;


Acts 26
Therefore, having obtained help from God, to this day I stand, witnessing both to small and great, saying no other things than those which the prophets and Moses said would come; 23 that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim light to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles;

Acts 28
17 And it came to pass after three days that Paul called the leaders of the Jews together. So when they had come together, he said to them: Men and brethren, though I have done nothing against our people or the customs of our fathers, yet I was delivered as a prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans,... I have called for you, to see you and speak with you, because for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.
...
23 So when they had appointed him a day, many came to him at his lodging, to whom he explained and solemnly testified of the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus from both the Law of Moses and the Prophets, from morning till evening

================ and so for New Covenant Christians.

"I will write My LAW on their mind and heart" Jer 31:31-33 Heb 8:6-10
"if you Love Me KEEP My commandments" John 14:15
"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

 

[bbbbbbb]

Basically Paul claims to be a Messianic Jew

I see that you are talking with yourself again.

 

[BobRyan]

Your response to scripture ... "noted"

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Paul claims to be a Jew even after becoming a Christian - and says this is also true of Peter

Did ANY Jew stop being a Jew even after being immersed in Yeshua's Name ?

More important, WHO is the KING OF THE JEWS TODAY ? (the REAL ONE)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Answer: Yahshua HaMashiach
Jesus the Messiah Savior King of the Jews.

 

[Open Heart]

Did ANY Jew stop being a Jew even after being immersed in Yeshua's Name ?

Yeshua, yes, I'm afraid that later in Church history, Jews who became Christians were often forced to give up Torah observance and live the life of Gentiles. Their children would certainly have been confused as to whether they were Jews or not, and undoubtedly, their grandchildren no longer self-identified as Jews. IOW, the line of these converts was lost to Israel when they were Gentilized. This sort of Gentilization still goes on today, although it's more subtle.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Basically Paul claims to be a Messianic Jew



Can't leave scripture inside quotes - since some have a difficult time reading scripture as it is.


In Acts 21 - James is squarely in favor of Messianic Jews to the point of instructing Paul to participate in a ceremonial vow.

In Gal 2
11 Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.

14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles

Acts 23:6
But perceiving that one group were Sadducees and the other Pharisees, Paul began crying out in the Council, "Brethren, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees; I am on trial for the hope and resurrection of the dead!"

Acts 13
14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and sat down. 15 And after the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, “Men and brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.”

16 Then Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said, “Men of Israel, and you who fear God, listen:

QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 68604514, member: 235244"]Although Paul was certainly not under the condemnation of the Law as a born again New Covenant Christian - yet he also was not devoted to rebellion against the Law of God -

What is encouraging is that the span from Acts 21-28 gives a great view of how Paul declared his own practice "under oath" and before both Jews and gentiles starting with clarification of his teaching for his fellow Messianic Jews.



Acts 21
24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law

Acts 24
14But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets


Acts 25
8 while he answered for himself, “Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I offended in anything at all.;


Acts 26
Therefore, having obtained help from God, to this day I stand, witnessing both to small and great, saying no other things than those which the prophets and Moses said would come; 23 that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim light to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles;

Acts 28
17 And it came to pass after three days that Paul called the leaders of the Jews together. So when they had come together, he said to them: Men and brethren, though I have done nothing against our people or the customs of our fathers, yet I was delivered as a prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans,... I have called for you, to see you and speak with you, because for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.
...
23 So when they had appointed him a day, many came to him at his lodging, to whom he explained and solemnly testified of the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus from both the Law of Moses and the Prophets, from morning till evening

================ and so for New Covenant Christians.

"I will write My LAW on their mind and heart" Jer 31:31-33 Heb 8:6-10
"if you Love Me KEEP My commandments" John 14:15
"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

1 John 3:23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

 

[faroukfarouk]

1 John 3:23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

1 John is such a searching Epistle.

 

[JackRT]

Within a century of the crucifixion the early Christian church had largely lost its Jewish roots and had become an almost entirely Greek speaking Gentile church. This transformation has had two entirely regrettable outcomes. In the first place, the church became increasingly anti-Judaic and anti-Semitic. This continued to a greater or lesser degree over the centuries and culminated in the Shoah. In the second place, the church lost the ability to read scripture "with Jewish eyes". This has led to development of understandings that ignore the Jewish context in which the Bible was written.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

i.e. "YHVH has sent a famine, not a famine of food and water,
but a famine of the "hearing of the Word of YHVH"......

 

[BobRyan]

1 John 3:23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

And so also is "this" - Eph 6:2
And so also is "this" - James 2
And so also -- not taking God's name in vain. (not even mentioned in the NT)
And so also ... Romans 13 list that is same as Matthew 19 list before the cross.

 

[1stcenturylady]

And so also is "this" - Eph 6:2
And so also is "this" - James 2
And so also -- not taking God's name in vain. (not even mentioned in the NT)
And so also ... Romans 13 list that is same as Matthew 19 list before the cross.

Where in the Ten Commandments does it speak against fornication? Where in the 10 does it speak against homosexuality?

These things are spoken of outside the COMMANDMENTS. And so are they spoken against in the Old Testament, and also under the New Covenant.