Pastors and Lamborghinis

[Presbyterian Continuist]

you said you don't like churches where people tell others how to live and what to do. what does 1 Corinthians 5 mean to you in light of that position?

I don't understand. What is it about me saying I don't like churches where people how other to live and what to do that causes you to believe that 1 Corinthians 5 is relevant to the discussion about the expensive motor vehicle?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Yea, sorry, you are right. Whats the point in only having one car. He should have several. Maybe one for each day of the week!

Maybe he should go one further like some American TV evangelists. Buy his own jet plane plus a helicopter. He could use the jet plane for the larger parishes with airports, and the helicopter for the rural churches where he could land right in the front yard!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

My wife handles our finances and I have to account for every cent I spend! I am the head of my house, and whatever my wife says shall be done!

I have just one practical answer when my wife calls the shots over our household budget: "Yes dear!"

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Are you Shepherding a congregation?

No. I can't afford sheepdogs. Well trained ones are very expensive. Huntaways are a good breed of dog for mustering sheep. They can bark around the sheep's heels very effectively to keep them in line!

I like watching NZ sheepdog trials to get the skills to shepherd the congregation!

New Zealand is a great place for learning shepherding. Did you know that there are more sheep in this country than people? We know more about shepherding than anyone anywhere in the world!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Because of the disagreements to my position on this thread, I consulted my spiritual advisor (she is in the photo on the left), but all I could from her was "Meow!" I got the interpretation for that and it said, "I don't care! Why is my food bowl empty?" Perhaps her reply is the wisest and most intelligent of all on this thread!

 

[Dave L]

The burial tomb Jesus was placed in, was available only because a rich man had a luxury. If everyone followed that advice, Jesus would never have been placed in Joseph of Arimathea's tomb. Joseph should have sold the plot, and given money to the poor or missions.

I think we need to leave what others do, to G-d. Let G-d speak to the hearts of those who have wealth. We are only to deal with our own resources.

Throughout the Bible, G-d has been able to use the rich, and the poor. There are ways the poor can serve, that a rich person cannot. And there are ways a rich person can serve, that a poor person cannot.

we are not loving others as our own selves if we spend on luxury what could help the poor and missions.

 

[RDKirk]

Two hundred thousand dollars could support 200 churches in India for a year.

Two hundred thousand dollars could support one church in India for 200 years.

 

[BNR32FAN]

A South Carolina pastor has defended buying his wife a $200,000 Lamborghini as an anniversary present

Despite the fact that a few items in the article are absolutely false, I believe this was a bad move. I’m not sure how Pastor Gray didn’t consider the backlash of buying a Lamborghini and having it posted on social media.

Even if no church funds were used, and I’m confident that they weren’t, it’s not a good message when a pastor does something like this.

Everyone has a right to buy what they want with their own wealth, but super luxury cars are an extravagance that basically state, “I have trouble spending enough of my money” - not a good message if one is in a position of church leadership.

So where’s the cutoff of appropriateness? BMW? Acura? Kia? I can’t be the judge of that but one knows it when they see it.

Every pastor should have one. Just think how much faster they can spread the gospel with a Lamborghini!!

 

[BNR32FAN]

Anyone here have a big screen Tv? Perhaps an $800 smart phone? Or maybe an expensive video game system? At what point are we to start pointing fingers? How would people in 3rd world countries view Christians who have expensive possessions like these? Are we not to be prosperous at all? How much has this pastor given to help others? Does anyone know? If he gives a million dollars a year to those in need is it ok for him to pay $40,000 per year in car payments?

 

[BNR32FAN]

we are not loving others as our own selves if we spend on luxury what could help the poor and missions.

That looks like a very nice suit your wearing brother. How many meals could that have bought for a homeless person? Who knows how much this Pastor gives each year to help others? At what point are we justified to start pointing fingers at others? Let’s give him the benefit of a doubt and let God deal with it.

 

[Dave L]

That looks like a very nice suit your wearing brother. How many meals could that have bought for a homeless person? Who knows how much this Pastor gives each year to help others? At what point are we justified to start pointing fingers at others? Let’s give him the benefit of a doubt and let God deal with it.

How much more could he give if he "curbed" luxury?

 

[Second Coming]

Not exactly. The rich man wouldn't help Lazarus.

Exactly. The rich man lived lavishly while Lazarus suffered. That is exactly what the Pastor has done. He’s living lavishly when he could be helping others instead.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Anyone here have a big screen Tv?

No.

Perhaps an $800 smart phone?

No.

Or maybe an expensive video game system?

Nope.

At what point are we to start pointing fingers?

It's not about "pointing fingers". It's about discussing how we share and show a living Christ to the world.

We are to be the reflection of Christ to the world, looking at us the world should see a living faith and be jealous for our God.. Not disgusted by our behavior, self centeredness and materialism.

Having nice material things isn't sinful by itself, it's letting materialism rule over us that is the sin.

So at what point do the optics become that materialism and money is our God? Long before you get to a 200,000 dollar car I'd say.

There's a balance I believe, between materialism and false humility - but if we aren't finding that balance, that way to live in this world without being of this world, then we aren't showing Christ in our actions - which speak far louder than any words.

 

[BNR32FAN]

How much more could he give if he "curbed" luxury?

So then all Christians should have no luxuries only what we need to survive despite how much we give. We should all have the cheapest house, the cheapest car, the cheapest clothes, no television or any other type of entertainment, no jewelry, only what is needed to survive? Where do we draw the line? Can you honestly say this is how you live your life brother?

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

I don't understand. What is it about me saying I don't like churches where people how other to live and what to do that causes you to believe that 1 Corinthians 5 is relevant to the discussion about the expensive motor vehicle?

you're attempting to deflect from the point...that's fine. that reference was in response to you saying you don't like being told what to do by church folk.

as far as this guy's purchase, it has been explained enough by myself and others here. it's an issue of setting a good example as a leader of the flock.

 

[BNR32FAN]

No.



No.



Nope.




It's not about "pointing fingers". It's about discussing how we share and show a living Christ to the world.

We are to be the reflection of Christ to the world, looking at us the world should see a living faith and be jealous for our God.. Not disgusted by our behavior, self centeredness and materialism.

Having nice material things isn't sinful by itself, it's letting materialism rule over us that is the sin.

So at what point do the optics become that materialism and money is our God? Long before you get to a 200,000 dollar car I'd say.

There's a balance I believe, between materialism and false humility - but if we aren't finding that balance, that way to live in this world without being of this world, then we aren't showing Christ in our actions - which speak far louder than any words.

I agree to a certain point my friend. But we don’t know how much he has given. A $200,000 car comes to about $40,000 a year in car payments. If he gives 1 million a year, I’m not saying he does, that’s 5 million over that 5 year period that he’s paying on the car. Is he showing his greed or is he showing how much he has been blessed? Who knows? Should we judge him based on insufficient knowledge of how much he has given verses how much he spends on himself? I believe that’s jumping to conclusions friend. We’re condemning him not even knowing the full story. There have been many who are blessed by God with worldly possessions. David, Daniel, Jacob, Job, and many others who were said to be righteous men blessed by God and were very wealthy.

 

[RDKirk]

I agree to a certain point my friend. But we don’t know how much he has given. A $200,000 car comes to about $40,000 a year in car payments. If he gives 1 million a year, I’m not saying he does, that’s 5 million over that 5 year period that he’s paying on the car. Is he showing his greed or is he showing how much he has been blessed? Who knows? Should we judge him based on insufficient knowledge of how much he has given verses how much he spends on himself? I believe that’s jumping to conclusions friend. We’re condemning him not even knowing the full story. There have been many who are blessed by God with worldly possessions. David, Daniel, Jacob, Job, and many others who were said to be righteous men blessed by God and were very wealthy.

Well, the response from his wife about "other things he's doing" was that he had a program on the OWN television channel and was writing books. She didn't mention any charitable work.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I see a wealthy man who decided to become a pastor and preach the gospel and devote himself to God. What I don’t see is anyone who is persecuting him stating how much he has given. Without that information how are we to determine his level of devotion to God. I think it’s really sad that people aren’t giving this BROTHER the benefit of the doubt and are making terrible assumptions about him. God knows the truth and will deal with him accordingly.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Well, the response from his wife about "other things he's doing" was that he had a program on the OWN television channel and was writing books. She didn't mention any charitable work.

I wouldn’t either. Who wants to boast and give up their treasures in heaven?

 

[Hazelelponi]

I agree to a certain point my friend. But we don’t know how much he has given. A $200,000 car comes to about $40,000 a year in car payments. If he gives 1 million a year, I’m not saying he does, that’s 5 million over that 5 year period that he’s paying on the car. Is he showing his greed or is he showing how much he has been blessed? Who knows? Should we judge him based on insufficient knowledge of how much he has given verses how much he spends on himself? I believe that’s jumping to conclusions friend. We’re condemning him not even knowing the full story. There have been many who are blessed by God with worldly possessions. David, Daniel, Jacob, Job, and many others who were said to be righteous men blessed by God and were very wealthy.

I'm not even discussing charity here. He could be giving 100 million to charity for all I know - this isn't the issue to me.

When the woman put in two pennies into the offering plate she was praised by Jesus, and when the Pharisees put in far more they were shown the woman and her two pennies...

Why? Because they were patting themselves on the back for giving 10% in tithing even on items that tithe was not required on. They had gone above and beyond in service to God, or so they believed so they were proud of what they did.

Yet, God pointed out this old widow woman who gave far far far less than any of them. Why? Because she gave ALL she had to God..

God doesn't require a set dollar amount in tithes under the new covenant, He requires our all, whatever that all is. He requires our trust, our faithfulness in service, our love for all around us, an open door to all. He asks us to go above and beyond in trust in all our ways.

This Pastor might be a terrific guy who gives lots to charity and more.. but the reflection of Christ isn't in material extravagancy on self... the reflection of Christ is in giving, love and sharing, a gift and love and a sharin that's difficult to see when it's being obfuscated by grand homes and luxury cars and other unnecessary material items.

And if your obfuscating the Gift your really not able to say you've giving your all for Christ such as the widow woman and her two pennies.. sometimes self control is required of us, sometimes we just need to ask, is this something Christ would do?

Sometimes just because you can, doesn't mean you should.