Pastor John MacArthur

[YeshuaFan]

-
​

Judas never believed

But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.

How can a person who has been properly taught and by being convinced by The Evidence The Bible presents about Jesus. That Jesus is who He says He is The Son of God/The Messiah, the resurrection and the life.

In which they understand and believe that believing in Jesus (that Jesus is who He says He is The Son of God/The Messiah, the resurrection and the life) and this is how they receive God's free gift of eternal life.

How can they believing in Jesus have a false belief, the false beliefs arise.

When people who looking for God's free gift of Eternal Life, Are taught and told that it is:
walking an isle or coming forward at a crusade, making Jesus Lord of their life, saying a prayer, inviting Jesus into their heart, following Jesus in their lives, being baptized, repenting of sins, obeying the 10 commandments, loving God with all their heart, so on and so on the list of false ways people are told is the way to eternal life are many.

But The Bible states the way is narrow and only goes through belief in Jesus

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.


So the solution is not adding another false way, but to start teaching God's and The Bibles way, by belief in Jesus.

What is scary is that Judas might have deluded himself, and there are many who have gone to churches, heard the good news, think were right with God, but never received Jesus of bible as their Lord and savior. They will state was water baptized, gave offerings, helped out etc

 

[d taylor]

What is scary is that Judas might have deluded himself, and there are many who have gone to churches, heard the good news, think were right with God, but never received Jesus of bible as their Lord and savior. They will state was water baptized, gave offerings, helped out etc

-
​

Are you saying someone can think they believe in something, but not actually believe. I have never heard of that, if so how does that work.

 

[YeshuaFan]

-
​

Are you saying someone can think they believe in something, but not actually believe. I have never heard of that, if so how does that work.

They can believe in a false Jesus, who say they profess Jesus, but they re still really trusting in their good works, church membership card, water baptism etc to be saving them, as shown by many JW and Mormons claiming to be saved

 

[d taylor]

They can believe in a false Jesus, who say they profess Jesus, but they re still really trusting in their good works, church membership card, water baptism etc to be saving them, as shown by many JW and Mormons claiming to be saved

-
​

Well i am not actually talking about believing in false beliefs. But that a person may believe in something but not know they believe.

For an example take Judas. Do you think he actually thought he believed in Jesus or did he know he was just along to see what he could get for himself (like power or money)

 

[tdidymas]

-
​

Prove that you have to believe Jesus is Lord to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.
Show me the verse or better yet the verses, where it states like the verses below from The Gospel of John, that state belief in Jesus gives a person God's free gift of Eternal Life.

John 3:14,15 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

John 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

John 3:18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is
condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only
begotten Son of God.

John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

John 5:24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

John 6: 27,28,29 Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”
Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

John 6:47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believe in Me has everlasting life.

John 11:25,26,27 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

John 20:31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.


The name that is given to men to believe about Jesus, is that Jesus is The Son of God/The Messiah, the resurrection and the life.

This begs the question, what do you mean by "believe," and why do you only quote verses that seem to support your idea, but don't quote any verses that deny your idea? The fact that "believe" is not well-defined in these verses (which are taken out of context) is the same problem that the apostles addressed in 1 John, James, and elsewhere.

I have already quoted verses that proved a person must believe that Jesus is Lord, but I'll reiterate it, just in case you have an open mind and may consider it:

1 Cor. 12:3 "...no one can say, 'Jesus is Lord,' except by the Holy Spirit." Does this not imply that a person having the Holy Spirit will say "Jesus is Lord"? Of course it does, since Rom. 8:9 says, "if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him." It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that if someone doesn't think Jesus is Lord, his faith is worthless.

Rom. 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Notice that "our Lord" can't be separated from the Christ who gives eternal life.

1 Cor. 1:2 "To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours." Notice that the saints are calling on the Lord Jesus, not a Jesus who is not Lord.

Phil 3:20 "our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ" - the saints are waiting for the Lord Jesus, not a Jesus who is not Lord.

John 6:69 “We have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God.” - believing includes knowing that Jesus is Lord.

John 10:28 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand." Whoever knows that Jesus is Lord has eternal life, according to this verse. Go ahead and examine the context. If anyone doesn't follow Jesus (obey His voice), that person doesn't belong to Him. Believing in Jesus includes knowing He is Lord and doing what He commands.

Rom. 5:21 "so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Notice it says "our Lord" and includes "righteousness to eternal life," which means whoever has eternal life, their faith makes them practice righteousness that pleases God. IOW, they know that Jesus is Lord, and they obey His commands.

The entire New Testament is filled with verses like this. IMO anyone who does not recognize Jesus as Lord of himself, is ignorant of scripture and his faith is suspect. If you want to fool yourself by making up your own definition of believing that fits your convenience, that's your prerogative. But you have been duly warned.

 

[d taylor]

This begs the question, what do you mean by "believe," and why do you only quote verses that seem to support your idea, but don't quote any verses that deny your idea? The fact that "believe" is not well-defined in these verses (which are taken out of context) is the same problem that the apostles addressed in 1 John, James, and elsewhere.

I have already quoted verses that proved a person must believe that Jesus is Lord, but I'll reiterate it, just in case you have an open mind and may consider it:

1 Cor. 12:3 "...no one can say, 'Jesus is Lord,' except by the Holy Spirit." Does this not imply that a person having the Holy Spirit will say "Jesus is Lord"? Of course it does, since Rom. 8:9 says, "if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him." It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that if someone doesn't think Jesus is Lord, his faith is worthless.

Rom. 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Notice that "our Lord" can't be separated from the Christ who gives eternal life.

1 Cor. 1:2 "To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours." Notice that the saints are calling on the Lord Jesus, not a Jesus who is not Lord.

Phil 3:20 "our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ" - the saints are waiting for the Lord Jesus, not a Jesus who is not Lord.

John 6:69 “We have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God.” - believing includes knowing that Jesus is Lord.

John 10:28 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand." Whoever knows that Jesus is Lord has eternal life, according to this verse. Go ahead and examine the context. If anyone doesn't follow Jesus (obey His voice), that person doesn't belong to Him. Believing in Jesus includes knowing He is Lord and doing what He commands.

Rom. 5:21 "so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Notice it says "our Lord" and includes "righteousness to eternal life," which means whoever has eternal life, their faith makes them practice righteousness that pleases God. IOW, they know that Jesus is Lord, and they obey His commands.

The entire New Testament is filled with verses like this. IMO anyone who does not recognize Jesus as Lord of himself, is ignorant of scripture and his faith is suspect. If you want to fool yourself by making up your own definition of believing that fits your convenience, that's your prerogative. But you have been duly warned.

-

​

Well since you did not post a verse supporting your beliefs, that an unbeliever must believe Jesus is Lord to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life, i guess there is nothing else to discuss.

I see now why you were upset at Zane Hodges. You believe a person must make Jesus Lord of their life and after living a life of obedience making Jesus Lord of a persons life, they eventually receive eternal life. I guess that would be after they have been judged to have lived a life of obedience to Jesus.

 

[David Lamb]

​

But you never post a verse that states this, you just post verses where people are addressing Jesus as Lord.

I don't only post verses where people are addressing Jesus as Lord. I also posted the example of what the apostles said to the jailer in answer to his question about how he could be saved. They told him to believe on the LORD Jesus Christ.

 

[d taylor]

I don't only post verses where people are addressing Jesus as Lord. I also posted the example of what the apostles said to the jailer in answer to his question about how he could be saved. They told him to believe on the LORD Jesus Christ.

-
​

You post verses where Jesus is addressed as Lord. You do not post verses stating a person must believe Jesus is Lord to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.

Why do i have to keep repeating this.

 

[d taylor]

-

​

When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”
So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

 

[d taylor]

I don't only post verses where people are addressing Jesus as Lord. I also posted the example of what the apostles said to the jailer in answer to his question about how he could be saved. They told him to believe on the LORD Jesus Christ.

_
​

So you believe a person (unbeliever) must make Jesus Lord of their live to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.

So what does that look like how have you made Jesus Lord of your life. Because in that declaration, it does not leave room for nothing but a person being 100% having Jesus be Lord of their life. There is no room for Jesus being Lord of your life 1 day or 4 days a week. Making Jesus Lord of your life is a 24 hour 7 days a week 365 days a year call.

So you have forsaken all worldly desires and are 100% living for Jesus.

 

[tdidymas]

-

​

Well since you did not post a verse supporting your beliefs, that an unbeliever must believe Jesus is Lord to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life, i guess there is nothing else to discuss.

I see now why you were upset at Zane Hodges. You believe a person must make Jesus Lord of their life and after living a life of obedience making Jesus Lord of a persons life, they eventually receive eternal life. I guess that would be after they have been judged to have lived a life of obedience to Jesus.

This response is not only narrow minded, it's a complete disregard of everything I wrote. From now on, you're on my ignore list.

 

[David Lamb]

_
​

So you believe a person (unbeliever) must make Jesus Lord of their live to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.

Nobody can make Jesus Christ Lord; He is Lord. That is part and parcel of Who He is, so when we believe on Jesus Christ, if we don't believe He is the Lord, then the Jesus we believe in is not the Jesus of the bible.

So what does that look like how have you made Jesus Lord of your life. Because in that declaration, it does not leave room for nothing but a person being 100% having Jesus be Lord of their life. There is no room for Jesus being Lord of your life 1 day or 4 days a week. Making Jesus Lord of your life is a 24 hour 7 days a week 365 days a year call.

So you have forsaken all worldly desires and are 100% living for Jesus.

Even once a sinner is converted, he/she continues to sin. We don't reach perfection in this life. Every time I sin, I am to that extent not treating Jesus as my Lord. I have to confess my sins and He is faithful and just to forgive my sins. What you stated about 100% living for Jesus should be the Christian's constant aim.

 

[David Lamb]

-
​

You post verses where Jesus is addressed as Lord. You do not post verses stating a person must believe Jesus is Lord to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.

Why do i have to keep repeating this.

But that just is not the case. I posted a verse where the apostles told the jailer to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. They were not addressing Jesus as Lord; they were speaking to the jailer, and telling him Whom he had to believe in for salvation.

 

[d taylor]

But that just is not the case. I posted a verse where the apostles told the jailer to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. They were not addressing Jesus as Lord; they were speaking to the jailer, and telling him Whom he had to believe in for salvation.

-
​

So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

So how do you get from Paul saying Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to that verse saying believe Jesus is Lord and to make Jesus Lord of your life.

Which is what you are saying the verse is saying, believe Jesus is Lord and to make Jesus Lord of your life.

 

[d taylor]

Nobody can make Jesus Christ Lord; He is Lord. That is part and parcel of Who He is, so when we believe on Jesus Christ, if we don't believe He is the Lord, then the Jesus we believe in is not the Jesus of the bible.

Even once a sinner is converted, he/she continues to sin. We don't reach perfection in this life. Every time I sin, I am to that extent not treating Jesus as my Lord. I have to confess my sins and He is faithful and just to forgive my sins. What you stated about 100% living for Jesus should be the Christian's constant aim.

-
​

No, Lordship salvation states a person must make Jesus Lord of their life to be saved.

That is just an outright false statement
if we don't believe He is the Lord, then the Jesus we believe in is not the Jesus of the bible.

Again you still have not posted a verse stating that an unbeliever must believe Jesus is Lord to be saved.. You say that Acts 16:31 says this, I say it is not saying believe Jesus is Lord.

 

[David Lamb]

-
​

So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

So how do you get from Paul saying Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to that verse saying believe Jesus is Lord and to make Jesus Lord of your life.

Which is what you are saying the verse is saying, believe Jesus is Lord and to make Jesus Lord of your life.

Who was the jailer to believe in? The Lord Jesus Christ. Nothing about making Jesus Lord of his life. Indeed, I actually said that we cannot make Jesus Lord, because He already is Lord. The One the jailer was to believe in is Lord.

 

[David Lamb]

-
​

No, Lordship salvation states a person must make Jesus Lord of their life to be saved.

That is just an outright false statement
if we don't believe He is the Lord, then the Jesus we believe in is not the Jesus of the bible.

Again you still have not posted a verse stating that an unbeliever must believe Jesus is Lord to be saved.. You say that Acts 16:31 says this, I say it is not saying believe Jesus is Lord.

So when the apostles said "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ," in your view, should they just have said, "Believe in Jesus Christ?"

I didn't mention Lordship Salvation, because I am never sure what it involves. It seems from the little I know of it to mean more than accepting the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

 

[d taylor]

So when the apostles said "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ," in your view, should they just have said, "Believe in Jesus Christ?"

I didn't mention Lordship Salvation, because I am never sure what it involves. It seems from the little I know of it to mean more than accepting the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

-
​

So if Paul was telling the jailer to believe Jesus is Lord to be saved. Why did Paul not say that. Paul simply addressed Jesus as Lord Jesus Christ and tells the jailer to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Well you should know what the theology you are professing

I say the name a person must believe about Jesus is that Jesus is the Son of God/The Messiah, the resurrection and the life. That is the name given by God that a person must believe about Jesus to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life. Prove me wrong

 

[David Lamb]

-
​

So if Paul was telling the jailer to believe Jesus is Lord to be saved. Why did Paul not say that. Paul simply addressed Jesus as Lord Jesus Christ and tells the jailer to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Well you should know what the theology you are professing

I will try again. Paul was telling the jailer who to believe in to be saved. He told him to believe in One Who is Lord. He said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ." He didn't add, "but don't worry if you cannot accept that He is the Lord - He'll save you anyway."

 

[d taylor]

I will try again. Paul was telling the jailer who to believe in to be saved. He told him to believe in One Who is Lord. He said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ." He didn't add, "but don't worry if you cannot accept that He is the Lord - He'll save you anyway."

-
​

Paul was addressing Jesus as Lord Paul was not saying to believe Jesus is Lord to be saved. Paul could have just as well said believe in Jesus.

Actually you won't discuss the whole account where it is stated Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house.

I believe 100% that the word of the Lord that Paul spoke to them was. Telling them that Jesus was The Son of God/The Messiah, the resurrection and the life and that to believe Jesus is The Son of God/The Messiah, the resurrection and the life for God's free gift of Eternal Life.