Pastor John MacArthur

[David Lamb]

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Paul was addressing Jesus as Lord Paul was not saying to believe Jesus is Lord to be saved. Paul could have just as well said believe in Jesus.

Actually you won't discuss the whole account where it is stated Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house.

I believe 100% that the word of the Lord that Paul spoke to them was. Telling them that Jesus was The Son of God/The Messiah, the resurrection and the life and that to believe Jesus is The Son of God/The Messiah, the resurrection and the life for God's free gift of Eternal Life.

How do you get Paul addressing Jesus? He wasn't speaking to Jesus; he was speaking to the jailer, answering his question, What must I do to be saved?"

 

[d taylor]

How do you get Paul addressing Jesus? He wasn't speaking to Jesus; he was speaking to the jailer, answering his question, What must I do to be saved?"

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I did not say Paul was addressing Jesus. Why are you now trying to say something i did not write. What i wrote and i will post it again.

Paul was addressing Jesus as Lord. That is saying that Paul stated believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Because Jesus was Paul's Lord, so Paul refers to Jesus as Lord Jesus Christ. Again Paul was not telling the jailer to believe Jesus is Lord to be saved


So the eunuch did not get saved because he believed Jesus is The Christ The Son of God

So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah, and said, “Do you understand what you are reading?”
And he said, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” And he asked Philip to come up and sit with him.
The place in the Scripture which he read was this:

“He was led as a sheep to the slaughter;
And as a lamb before its shearer is silent,
So He opened not His mouth.
In His humiliation His justice was taken away,
And who will declare His generation?
For His life is taken from the earth.”

So the eunuch answered Philip and said, “I ask you, of whom does the prophet say this, of himself or of some other man?” Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?”
*Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”

And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”

*NU, M omit v. 37. It is found in Western texts, including the Latin tradition.

 

[David Lamb]

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I did not say Paul was addressing Jesus. Why are you now trying to say something i did not write. What i wrote and i will post it again.

Paul was addressing Jesus as Lord. That is saying that Paul stated believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Because Jesus was Paul's Lord, so Paul refers to Jesus as Lord Jesus Christ. Again Paul was not telling the jailer to believe Jesus is Lord to be saved

So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah, and said, “Do you understand what you are reading?”
And he said, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” And he asked Philip to come up and sit with him.
The place in the Scripture which he read was this:

“He was led as a sheep to the slaughter;
And as a lamb before its shearer is silent,
So He opened not His mouth.
In His humiliation His justice was taken away,
And who will declare His generation?
For His life is taken from the earth.”

So the eunuch answered Philip and said, “I ask you, of whom does the prophet say this, of himself or of some other man?” Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?”
*Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”

And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”

*NU, M omit v. 37. It is found in Western texts, including the Latin tradition.

I am at a loss as to how to reply without repeating myself, so I will just thank you for your post and leave it there.

 

[d taylor]

I am at a loss as to how to reply without repeating myself, so I will just thank you for your post and leave it there.

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Why avoid this part of my post

So the eunuch did not get saved because he believed Jesus is The Christ The Son of God
So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah, and said, “Do you understand what you are reading?”
And he said, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” And he asked Philip to come up and sit with him.
The place in the Scripture which he read was this:

“He was led as a sheep to the slaughter;
And as a lamb before its shearer is silent,
So He opened not His mouth.
In His humiliation His justice was taken away,
And who will declare His generation?
For His life is taken from the earth.”

So the eunuch answered Philip and said, “I ask you, of whom does the prophet say this, of himself or of some other man?” Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?”
*Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”


*NU, M omit v. 37. It is found in Western texts, including the Latin tradition.

 

[Servus]

So when the apostles said "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ," in your view, should they just have said, "Believe in Jesus Christ?"

I didn't mention Lordship Salvation, because I am never sure what it involves. It seems from the little I know of it to mean more than accepting the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

Lordship Salvation is based on 1 John. The summation of which is

"I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life". 1 John 5:13.

There's other scripture involved of course, but 1 John is considered the "litmus test" regarding salvation according to a Lordship Salvation proponent named Steve Gregg,
who recommends John MacArthur's book on the subject called "The Gospel According To Jesus".

As far as I can tell Lordship Salvation is pretty much the same teaching of obedience to Christ as is taught in Catholocism and Eastern Orthodoxy. Which ironically MacArthur condemns as works based salvation.

 

[d taylor]

I am at a loss as to how to reply without repeating myself, so I will just thank you for your post and leave it there.

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Why did Paul not use faith in the Lord Jesus Christ in Galatians

knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

 

[Servus]

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Why did Paul not use faith in the Lord Jesus Christ in Galatians

knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Well you've said it's a matter of believing is who he says he is, which means Jesus is God. And we're supposed to obey God and do what God wants. Rather than be committed to our own self interest. If that's all we care about then there's really no point in wanting to spend eternity in the Kingdom of God.

 

[d taylor]

Well you've said it's a matter of believing is who he says he is, which means Jesus is God. And we're supposed to obey God and do what God wants. Rather than be committed to our own self interest. If that's all we care about then there's really no point in wanting to spend eternity in the Kingdom of God.

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I have no idea what you are addressing.

 

[YeshuaFan]

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So you believe a person (unbeliever) must make Jesus Lord of their live to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.

So what does that look like how have you made Jesus Lord of your life. Because in that declaration, it does not leave room for nothing but a person being 100% having Jesus be Lord of their life. There is no room for Jesus being Lord of your life 1 day or 4 days a week. Making Jesus Lord of your life is a 24 hour 7 days a week 365 days a year call.

So you have forsaken all worldly desires and are 100% living for Jesus.

When a sinner receives Jesus as their Savior, he is also their Lord now per how God views it going forward. but up to us to bring our lives into accepting and working out implementing that truth into very lives

 

[YeshuaFan]

I will try again. Paul was telling the jailer who to believe in to be saved. He told him to believe in One Who is Lord. He said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ." He didn't add, "but don't worry if you cannot accept that He is the Lord - He'll save you anyway."

When a sinner receives Jesus as their Savior, he is also their Lord now per how God views it going forward. but up to us to bring our lives into accepting and working out implementing that truth into very lives

 

[d taylor]

When a sinner receives Jesus as their Savior, he is also their Lord now per how God views it going forward. but up to us to bring our lives into accepting and working out implementing that truth into very lives

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When a person believes in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life they become a pernamnet born again child of God. Now if they are correctly taught how to live as a born again child of God. Eventually Jesus may become Lord of the believers life, some sooner than others and some like the parable of the soils shows. Some believers (2nd and 3rd soil) turn back to the world and these believers Jesus is not Lord of their life.

 

[YeshuaFan]

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When a person believes in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life they become a pernamnet born again child of God. Now if they are correctly taught how to live as a born again child of God. Eventually Jesus may become Lord of the believers life, some sooner than others and some like the parable of the soils shows. Some believers (2nd and 3rd soil) turn back to the world and these believers Jesus is not Lord of their life.

Think we are saying similiar things here, as while I do not see it as "Jesus must be Lord over all, or is really Lord of none", but also do think once saved we need to be maturing to where He is really Lord over more aspects of our lives now

 

[d taylor]

Think we are saying similiar things here, as while I do not see it as "Jesus must be Lord over all, or is really Lord of none", but also do think once saved we need to be maturing to where He is really Lord over more aspects of our lives now

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I am not arguing against believers making Jesus Lord.
My opposition is to the saying that "making Jesus Lord or believing Jesus is Lord", is the way a person receives God's free gift of Eternal Life.

The name given that a person must believe about Jesus is that Jesus is who He says He is: The Son of God/The Messiah, the resurrection and the life

 

[David Lamb]

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Why avoid this part of my post

So the eunuch did not get saved because he believed Jesus is The Christ The Son of God
So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah, and said, “Do you understand what you are reading?”
And he said, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” And he asked Philip to come up and sit with him.
The place in the Scripture which he read was this:

“He was led as a sheep to the slaughter;
And as a lamb before its shearer is silent,
So He opened not His mouth.
In His humiliation His justice was taken away,
And who will declare His generation?
For His life is taken from the earth.”

So the eunuch answered Philip and said, “I ask you, of whom does the prophet say this, of himself or of some other man?” Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?”
*Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”


*NU, M omit v. 37. It is found in Western texts, including the Latin tradition.

I am so sorry that I ignored a large part of your post. Regarding the Ethiopian, who doesn't actually use the word, "Lord," I would say that he does say, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." Now, even the enemies of Jesus recognised that when Jesus said he was the Son of God, that meant He was claiming equality with God:

“Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.” (Joh 5:18 NKJV)

If even His enemies said that, those who, like the Ethiopian, believed Him, would have done the same. How could anyone believe that Jesus is God, and not believe that He is Lord?

 

[Servus]

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I am not arguing against believers making Jesus Lord.
My opposition is to the saying that "making Jesus Lord or believing Jesus is Lord", is the way a person receives God's free gift of Eternal Life.

When the rich young man asked Jesus what must he do to obtain eternal life, what he was asking is how to obtain aionios zoe, meaning abundant life. In John 10:10 Jesus said he came to give us abundant life. Which refers to a quality of life characterized by spiritual richness and a deep personal relationship with God.

 

[d taylor]

I am so sorry that I ignored a large part of your post. Regarding the Ethiopian, who doesn't actually use the word, "Lord," I would say that he does say, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." Now, even the enemies of Jesus recognised that when Jesus said he was the Son of God, that meant He was claiming equality with God:

“Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.” (Joh 5:18 NKJV)

If even His enemies said that, those who, like the Ethiopian, believed Him, would have done the same. How could anyone believe that Jesus is God, and not believe that He is Lord?

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So the eunuch was not actually a believer and was just like the other's who were trying to kill Jesus.

 

[David Lamb]

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So the eunuch was not actually a believer and was just like the other's who were trying to kill Jesus.

Sorry, (again!) I obviously wasn't clear. I thought I had said that if even the enemies of Jesus recognised that "Son of God" meant equality with God, then someone like the eunuch, who was a believer in Jesus, would recognise that if He was the Son of God, Jesus was Himself divine and therefore Lord. I certainly didn't mean that the eunuch wasn't a believer - he was.

 

[d taylor]

When the rich young man asked Jesus what must he do to obtain eternal life, what he was asking is how to obtain aionios zoe, meaning abundant life. In John 10:10 Jesus said he came to give us abundant life. Which refers to a quality of life characterized by spiritual richness and a deep personal relationship with God.

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Sure looks like the rich rule was asking about eternal treasure as Jesus tells the ruler he will have treasure in heaven if he did what Jesus told him to do.

Living an abundant life as a believe, will result in one having treasure in heaven.

 

[Servus]

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Sure looks like the rich rule was asking about eternal treasure as Jesus tells the ruler he will have treasure in heaven if he did what Jesus told him to do.

The question is what does the gift of eternal life consist of? Is it only just immorality? The same old life neverending?

 

[d taylor]

The question is what does the gift of eternal life consist of? Is it only just immorality? The same old life neverending?

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Well there are levels of living in eternal life. Some just believe in Jesus and receive God's free gift of eternal life and go no further in their life. While others believe and go on to having an abundant life now and eternity.

The apostle knew there was more Jesus offer than just receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life and were kind of arrogant about being number one.

Then James and John, the sons of Zebedee, came to Him, saying, “Teacher, we want You to do for us whatever we ask.”
And He said to them, “What do you want Me to do for you?”
They said to Him, “Grant us that we may sit, one on Your right hand and the other on Your left, in Your glory.”