Pastor John MacArthur

[Rescued One]

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Well you have to understand MacArthur is a big Lordship salvation theologian. Which is a works based salvation theology, which teaches it takes more than belief in Jesus to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.

I highly doubt yout assessment.

 

[tdidymas]

Assurance comes from believing and accepting the truth of the scripture that right now possess eternal life in the Son, rest upon scriptures promises, not my own efforts and results

I don't get your point. Are you agreeing with me? It seems to me that you are acknowledging my point, that assurance results from faith, and is not the essence of it. Do you agree that if someone believes in Christ, but does not yet have assurance of salvation, that they are indeed born of God as 1 Jn. 5:1 says?

 

[d taylor]

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In The Bible none of the verses that tell people how to have Eternal Life, by belief in Jesus. Say belief in Jesus might give you eternal life, they all say believe in Jesus and you have Eternal Life. That is saying the person who believes is assured they have eternal life.

“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

There is no might not be condemned in the verse above
Same as in this verse below, has eternal life, the verse does not say he who believes might have eternal life

He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

Or this verse on assurance again has eternal life and also has passed from death to life. Not might pass from death to life.
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

 

[YeshuaFan]

I don't get your point. Are you agreeing with me? It seems to me that you are acknowledging my point, that assurance results from faith, and is not the essence of it. Do you agree that if someone believes in Christ, but does not yet have assurance of salvation, that they are indeed born of God as 1 Jn. 5:1 says?

Yes, because its based upon the objective truth of God and not subjective feelings

 

[YeshuaFan]

I highly doubt yout assessment.

Lordship salvation is just an attempt to confirm that one profession of salvation is a real confession of having such now

 

[YeshuaFan]

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In The Bible none of the verses that tell people how to have Eternal Life, by belief in Jesus. Say belief in Jesus might give you eternal life, they all say believe in Jesus and you have Eternal Life. That is saying the person who believes is assured they have eternal life.

“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

There is no might not be condemned in the verse above
Same as in this verse below, has eternal life, the verse does not say he who believes might have eternal life

He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

Or this verse on assurance again has eternal life and also has passed from death to life. Not might pass from death to life.
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

That is why salvation assurance can only come from objective truth of scriptures not subjective feelings

 

[d taylor]

Lordship salvation is just an attempt to confirm that one profession of salvation is a real confession of having such now

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It still just amazes me how people have let tradition just blind them to Biblical truths.

There is not one single verse in The Bible, when addressing how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.
That states people receive eternal life by some type of profession/confession of salvation.

The Bible states again and again and again it is only by belief in Jesus (the person) that give a person God's free gift of Eternal Life.

It is belief in Jesus
Also in The Bible the word (English) receive is used a few times, but that is used the same as belief

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

 

[YeshuaFan]

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It still just amazes me how people have let tradition just blind them to Biblical truths.

There is not one single verse in The Bible, when addressing how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.
That states people receive eternal life by some type of profession/confession of salvation.

The Bible states again and again and again it is only by belief in Jesus (the person) that give a person God's free gift of Eternal Life.

It is belief in Jesus
Also in The Bible the word (English) receive is used a few times, but that is used the same as belief

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

The truth is though that even the Billy Graham Association has said that up to 90 percent of those who came forward at the call to received Jesus at their crusades' never showed up at a church, were never discipled, not saved so think the real question on this discussion would be to have a plan into place to not just leave those at the altar unaware of how they need to matured and grow and cultivate their relationship with the Lord now

 

[d taylor]

The truth is though that even the Billy Graham Association has said that up to 90 percent of those who came forward at the call to received Jesus at their crusades' never showed up at a church, were never discipled, not saved so think the real question on this discussion would be to have a plan into place to not just leave those at the altar unaware of how they need to matured and grow and cultivate their relationship with the Lord now

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What is puzzling is the invention of these coming forward to receive Jesus. The Bible states that a person receives God's free gift of Eternal Life by belief in Jesus.

So with people thinking they are a believer because they came forward at a crusade. No wonder they are not going to church, etc.. probably because they actually never have believed in Jesus.

 

[YeshuaFan]

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What is puzzling is the invention of these coming forward to receive Jesus. The Bible states that a person receives God's free gift of Eternal Life by belief in Jesus.

So with people thinking they are a believer because they came forward at a crusade. No wonder they are not going to church, etc.. probably because they actually never have believed in Jesus.

That is the main thing Lordship is fighting against, as they seek to hve the person have full assurance now are saved

 

[d taylor]

That is the main thing Lordship is fighting against, as they seek to hve the person have full assurance now are saved

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Well they are using the wrong message, saying a person must make Jesus Lord of their live to be saved. This reeks of person being told to work for their salvation.

It is amazing how many have simply decided that they know better than God. On how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life and believe God's way (belief in Jesus) is not good enough.

Lordship salvation is just as bad because it has people believing they are born again because they have made Jesus Lord of their life and are committed and following Jesus.

 

[tdidymas]

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Well they are using the wrong message, saying a person must make Jesus Lord of their live to be saved. This reeks of person being told to work for their salvation.

It is amazing how many have simply decided that they know better than God. On how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life and believe God's way (belief in Jesus) is not good enough.

Lordship salvation is just as bad because it has people believing they are born again because they have made Jesus Lord of their life and are committed and following Jesus.

So you don't believe that Jesus is the Lord of the believer? Do you think that if a person just "believes" in Jesus, but doesn't consider Him Lord that they should submit to, that person is saved regardless?

(if so,) then, what about "unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins"? The nature of understanding Jesus as Lord is the foundation for believing in Him. Anyone who says "I believe" and yet does not obey what Jesus commanded (that is, does not consider Him Lord) is fooling himself.

IMO your view of "lordship salvation" is legalistic by nature, since you seem to accuse anyone (ie MacArthur) who teaches it of teaching legalism. In reality, no one can "MAKE" Jesus Lord. Either He is, or He isn't. There is either submission to His words, or there is a disregard of them. 1 John and James explicitly teach that if a person is not actually following Jesus and obeying His commands, such a person is not born of Him. The nature of faith in Jesus includes a desire for healing of the spirit, deliverance from sin, and power to obey His commands. If a person is not hoping for freedom from sin (in this life), then his faith is suspect, because such a person is still ignorant of gospel truth. Does reconciliation with God give a person power to live a life of devotion to God?

Holiness, that is, the power to live a godly life, is part of the free gift of eternal life in Christ, and everyone born of God has that gift. People having Jesus as Lord aren't working for their salvation, but they are working it out (Phil. 2:12-13). Righteous works are the result (the effect) of someone who believes in Christ. To bear the fruit of the Spirit is the only way one can know for certain that he is born again (Gal. 5:16-25, Rom. 8:12-13).

 

[David Lamb]

So you don't believe that Jesus is the Lord of the believer? Do you think that if a person just "believes" in Jesus, but doesn't consider Him Lord that they should submit to, that person is saved regardless?

(if so,) then, what about "unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins"? The nature of understanding Jesus as Lord is the foundation for believing in Him. Anyone who says "I believe" and yet does not obey what Jesus commanded (that is, does not consider Him Lord) is fooling himself.

IMO your view of "lordship salvation" is legalistic by nature, since you seem to accuse anyone (ie MacArthur) who teaches it of teaching legalism. In reality, no one can "MAKE" Jesus Lord. Either He is, or He isn't. There is either submission to His words, or there is a disregard of them. 1 John and James explicitly teach that if a person is not actually following Jesus and obeying His commands, such a person is not born of Him. The nature of faith in Jesus includes a desire for healing of the spirit, deliverance from sin, and power to obey His commands. If a person is not hoping for freedom from sin (in this life), then his faith is suspect, because such a person is still ignorant of gospel truth. Does reconciliation with God give a person power to live a life of devotion to God?

Holiness, that is, the power to live a godly life, is part of the free gift of eternal life in Christ, and everyone born of God has that gift. People having Jesus as Lord aren't working for their salvation, but they are working it out (Phil. 2:12-13). Righteous works are the result (the effect) of someone who believes in Christ. To bear the fruit of the Spirit is the only way one can know for certain that he is born again (Gal. 5:16-25, Rom. 8:12-13).

I agree. The apostles told the jailer at Philippi that he must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved.

 

[d taylor]

So you don't believe that Jesus is the Lord of the believer? Do you think that if a person just "believes" in Jesus, but doesn't consider Him Lord that they should submit to, that person is saved regardless?

(if so,) then, what about "unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins"? The nature of understanding Jesus as Lord is the foundation for believing in Him. Anyone who says "I believe" and yet does not obey what Jesus commanded (that is, does not consider Him Lord) is fooling himself.

IMO your view of "lordship salvation" is legalistic by nature, since you seem to accuse anyone (ie MacArthur) who teaches it of teaching legalism. In reality, no one can "MAKE" Jesus Lord. Either He is, or He isn't. There is either submission to His words, or there is a disregard of them. 1 John and James explicitly teach that if a person is not actually following Jesus and obeying His commands, such a person is not born of Him. The nature of faith in Jesus includes a desire for healing of the spirit, deliverance from sin, and power to obey His commands. If a person is not hoping for freedom from sin (in this life), then his faith is suspect, because such a person is still ignorant of gospel truth. Does reconciliation with God give a person power to live a life of devotion to God?

Holiness, that is, the power to live a godly life, is part of the free gift of eternal life in Christ, and everyone born of God has that gift. People having Jesus as Lord aren't working for their salvation, but they are working it out (Phil. 2:12-13). Righteous works are the result (the effect) of someone who believes in Christ. To bear the fruit of the Spirit is the only way one can know for certain that he is born again (Gal. 5:16-25, Rom. 8:12-13).

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Prove that you have to believe Jesus is Lord to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.
Show me the verse or better yet the verses, where it states like the verses below from The Gospel of John, that state belief in Jesus gives a person God's free gift of Eternal Life.

John 3:14,15 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

John 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

John 3:18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is
condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only
begotten Son of God.

John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

John 5:24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

John 6: 27,28,29 Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”
Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

John 6:47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believe in Me has everlasting life.

John 11:25,26,27 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

John 20:31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.


The name that is given to men to believe about Jesus, is that Jesus is The Son of God/The Messiah, the resurrection and the life.

 

[David Lamb]

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Prove that you have to believe Jesus is Lord to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.
Show me the verse or better yet the verses, where it states like the verses below from The Gospel of John, that state belief in Jesus gives a person God's free gift of Eternal Life.

John 3:14,15 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

John 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

John 3:18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is
condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only
begotten Son of God.

John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

John 5:24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

John 6: 27,28,29 Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”
Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

John 6:47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believe in Me has everlasting life.

John 11:25,26,27 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

John 20:31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.


The name that is given to men to believe about Jesus, is that Jesus is The Son of God/The Messiah, the resurrection and the life.

Does not the fact the He is the Son of God mean that He is Lord of us mere men? Many of the verses you quoted refer to Him as the son of God, and one has the words: “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God." And as I said before, the apostles told the jailer to believe on the LORD Jesus Christ to be saved. To save any misunderstanding, I'm not saying that just calling Jesus "Lord" saves anybody. We have to mean it. Jesus Himself said:

“"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.” (Mt 7:21 NKJV)

 

[d taylor]

Does not the fact the He is the Son of God mean that He is Lord of us mere men? Many of the verses you quoted refer to Him as the son of God, and one has the words: “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God." And as I said before, the apostles told the jailer to believe on the LORD Jesus Christ to be saved. To save any misunderstanding, I'm not saying that just calling Jesus "Lord" saves anybody. We have to mean it. Jesus Himself said:

“"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.” (Mt 7:21 NKJV)

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We have had this discussion before do we have to do it again.

And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

 

[David Lamb]

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We have had this discussion before do we have to do it again.

And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

I apologise for the repetition. I was just responding to your post.

 

[d taylor]

I apologise for the repetition. I was just responding to your post.

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Well why i get tired of repeating the same discussion. Is that in the past discussion all i have ask for is to prove your belief that a person must believe Jesus is Lord to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life. By posting a verse or verses that state as clear as the verses i have post that say belief in Jesus gives a person Eternal Life.

But you never post a verse that states this, you just post verses where people are addressing Jesus as Lord.

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

“Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”
So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

 

[YeshuaFan]

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Well they are using the wrong message, saying a person must make Jesus Lord of their live to be saved. This reeks of person being told to work for their salvation.

It is amazing how many have simply decided that they know better than God. On how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life and believe God's way (belief in Jesus) is not good enough.

Lordship salvation is just as bad because it has people believing they are born again because they have made Jesus Lord of their life and are committed and following Jesus.

I agree with you that we are saved by grace alone received thru faith alone, but just trying to get the balance from the Bible how we need to confirm that our election and calling are sure, and not be like a Judas, who merely professed faith in Jesus

 

[d taylor]

I agree with you that we are saved by grace alone received thru faith alone, but just trying to get the balance from the Bible how we need to confirm that our election and calling are sure, and not be like a Judas, who merely professed faith in Jesus

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Judas never believed

But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.

How can a person who has been properly taught and by being convinced by The Evidence The Bible presents about Jesus. That Jesus is who He says He is The Son of God/The Messiah, the resurrection and the life.

In which they understand and believe that believing in Jesus (that Jesus is who He says He is The Son of God/The Messiah, the resurrection and the life) and this is how they receive God's free gift of eternal life.

How can they believing in Jesus have a false belief, the false beliefs arise.

When people who looking for God's free gift of Eternal Life, Are taught and told that it is:
walking an isle or coming forward at a crusade, making Jesus Lord of their life, saying a prayer, inviting Jesus into their heart, following Jesus in their lives, being baptized, repenting of sins, obeying the 10 commandments, loving God with all their heart, so on and so on the list of false ways people are told is the way to eternal life are many.

But The Bible states the way is narrow and only goes through belief in Jesus

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.


So the solution is not adding another false way, but to start teaching God's and The Bibles way, by belief in Jesus.