Passover For Christians

[Clare73]

On every page of Ecclesiastes. . .read it and see if you can find any spiritual wisdom.

Book, chapter, verse, please. "Go read a book," doesn't support your bare assertion fallacy.

When you give chapter, verse of his spiritual wisdom in Ecclesiastes?

 

[Clare73]

If you said what you meant, that is what you should have said. But according to the Greek lexicon I quoted aidios means "always" and "forever" Link to 1952 edition of BAGD as it was known then.
A Greek-English Lexicon Gingrich & Danker

The linked lexicon does not reproduce the Greek correctly so "aidios" appears as aji?dio"

The emphasis of aidios is without interruption, permanence, unchangeable.

 

[Der Alte]

The emphasis of aidios is without interruption, permanence, unchangeable.

Your source please? Neither the '52 or current edition of BDAG list "without interruption, permanence, unchangeable" as additional meanings.
The historical sources the authors consulted in determining the correct meaning highlighted in blue.

ἀΐδιος, ον [aidios] (ἀεί ‘always’; Hom. Hymns, Hes. et al.; ins; PSI 1422, 16; Wsd 7:26; 4 Macc 10:15; a favorite w. Philo: Jos., Ant. 4, 178; 17, 152; Just., A II, 11, 5; Tat. 14, 2; Ath.; Mel., P. 2f, 20) eternal ἡ ἀ. αὐτοῦ (of God) δύναμις Ro 1:20 (Zoroaster in Philo Bybl.: 790 Fgm. 4, 52 Jac. [Eus., PE 1, 10, 52]; 58th letter of Apollonius of Tyana [Philostrat. I 360, 29 K.]; SibOr 5, 66 θεὸς ἀ.). ζωή (Philo, Fug. 97; Tat.14, 2) IEph 19:3; δεσμοῖς ἀ. Jd 6 (PGM 4, 1466 πυλωρὲ κλείθρων ἀϊδίων).—DELG s.v. αἰών. M-M. TW.
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). In A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 24). University of Chicago Press.​

 

[Clare73]

One cannot understand those words out of context.
Cherry picking

Strawman. . .

takes them out of context.

Context is Romans 3:20; Galatians 3:23, Galatians 3:24.

The law was given to reveal sin (Romans 3:20).
Before this faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up until faith (held prisoners of the law, locked up until faith) should be revealed. (Galatians 3:23).
The law was put in charge to lead us to Christ (Galatians 3:24).
Now that faith in Christ has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law (Galatians 3:25).

Are you denying the authoritative apostolic teaching of Galatians 3:25?

(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring.

And the law has been fulfilled in Christ--the sacrifices, the cleansings, the atonement, while the Decalogue is fulfilled in Christ's two New Covenant commandments (Matthew 22:37-40).
All is fulfilled, all is passed away of the Mosaic Covenant (Hebrews 8:13), and we are under the New Covenant commandments of Christ (Matthew 22:37-40), which are the fulfillment of the Decalogue, "and any other commandment there may be" (Romans 13:8-10).

(CLV) Mt 5:19
"Whosoever, then, should be annulling one of the least of these precepts, and should be teaching men thus, the least in the kingdom of the heavens shall he be called. Yet whoever should be doing and teaching them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of the heavens."

And therefore,
all the commandments hang on two commandments (Matthew 22:37-40), the observance of which two fulfill the Decalogue "and any other commandment there may be." (Romans 13:8-10)

(CLV) Mt 5:20
For I am saying to you that, if ever your righteousness (keeping the law)

What part of:

"no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law" (Romans 3:20),

"rather through the law we become conscious of sin" (Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7),

"all who rely on observing the law are under a curse" (Galatians 3:10),

"a righteousness from God, apart from law, that is by faith from first to last, has been made known" (Romans 1:17, Romans 3:20),

etc., etc.

do you not understand?

should not be superabounding more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, by no means may you be entering into the kingdom of the heavens.

Which was/is precisely done by the righteousness of God (Romans 1:17, Romans 3:21) imputed to Abraham by faith (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:3), just as righteousness is imputed to us by faith (Romans 4:5) in justification; i.e., declared righteous because of faith, apart from faith's works, just the faith itself (Romans 3:21, Romans 3:28).

"We maintain that a man is justified (righteousness imputed, as with Abraham) by faith apart from observing the law." (Romans 3:28)

Your understanding of the NT is woefully adequate, self-evidenced by your setting the New Covenant Scriptures against themselves, when in context they are in agreement, again self-evidenced by their being given by the apostles of Jesus Christ, who were taught by Jesus Christ.

 

[HARK!]

Context is Romans 3:20; Galatians 3:23, Galatians 3:24.

No matter what context we can derive from cherry picking, out of context, verses from Paul's writing, and throwing them into a basket; it will never trump Yahshua's clear message.

(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring.

(CLV) Mt 5:19
"Whosoever, then, should be annulling one of the least of these precepts, and should be teaching men thus, the least in the kingdom of the heavens shall he be called. Yet whoever should be doing and teaching them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of the heavens.

(CLV) Mt 5:20
For I am saying to you that, if ever your righteousness (keeping the law) should not be superabounding more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, by no means may you be entering into the kingdom of the heavens.

Are you denying the authoritative apostolic teaching of Galatians 3:25?

Are you denying Yahshua's?

 

[Torah Keeper]

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Back to Passover. I am not sure at this point. Jews outside of Israel keep the Moedim an extra day anyway.

 

[HARK!]

And the law has been fulfilled in Christ-

Do you believe that one can be in Messiah and be in sin; when there is no sin in Messiah?

the sacrifices, the cleansings, the atonement, while the Decalogue is fulfilled in Christ's two NT commandments (Matthew 22:37-40).

These are not NT commandments.

Yahshua spoke only his Father's word. You can find more on the Father's word in the TaNaK.

(CLV) MarK 12: 28-34
28 And, approaching, one of the scribes, hearing them discussing, having perceived that He answered them ideally, inquires of Him, "What is the foremost precept of all? 29 Jesus answered him that "The foremost precept of all is: Hear, Israel! the Lord our God is one Lord." 30 And, You shall be loving the Lord God out of your whole heart, and out of your whole soul, and out of your whole comprehension, and out of your whole strength. This is the foremost precept." 31 And the second is like it: 'You shall be loving your associate as yourself.' Now greater than these is no other precept." 32 And the scribe said to Him, "In truth, Teacher, Thou sayest ideally that He is One, and there is no other more than He." 33 And to be loving Him out of your whole heart, and out of the whole understanding, and out of the whole soul, and out of the whole strength, and to be loving the associate as yourself, is excessively more than all the ascent approaches and the sacrifices." 34 And Jesus, perceiving him, that he answered apprehendingly, said to him, "Not far are you from the kingdom of God.And no one dared to inquire of Him any longer."

Yahshua was quoting the Deuteronomy and Leviticus.

(CLV) DT 6:4
4 Hear, Israel! Yahweh is our Elohim; Yahweh the only One. 5 So you will love Yahweh your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your intensity. 6 These words which I am instructing you today will come to be in your heart.
(CLV) LV 19:18
18 You shall not avenge nor shall you be resentful against the sons of your people. You will love your associate as yourself:I am Yahweh.

All is fulfilled, all is passed away of the Mosaic Covenant (Hebrews 8:13)

When did this happen? I didn't get the memo. I'm still on earth.

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

we are under the New Covenant commandments of Christ (Matthew 22:37-40),

Again the Shema is from the TaNaK. This is nothing new.

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,

 

[Clare73]

Do you believe that one can be in Messiah and be in sin; when there is no sin in Messiah?

Setting the NT against itself again?

Are they loving God and neighbor? (Matthew 22:37-40)

These are not NT commandments.

See Romans 13:8-10.

When did this happen? I didn't get the memo.

I've noticed. . .

 

[HARK!]

"all who rely on observing the law are under a curse" (Galatians 3:10),

The word "rely" isn't in that verse. Why was it added?

Paul is not saying that observing YHWH's Torah is a curse. Actually quite the opposite. Paul is teaching Torah.

(CLV) Dt 27:26
Cursed be the one who is not carrying out all the words of this law to do them. Then all the people will say: Amen!

Can I get a BIG AMEN!

Let's read on.

The very next verse in this book:

(CLV) Dt 28:1
It will come to be if you should hearken, yea hearken to the voice of Yahweh your Elohim, to observe and to do all His instructions which I am enjoining on you today, that Yahweh your Elohim will give you supremacy over all the nations of the earth.

(CLV) Dt 28:2
And all these blessings will come on you and overtake you in case you should hearken to the voice of Yahweh your Elohim.

Paul isn't telling us anything new. Is it YHWH's law that is cursed?

(CLV) Ro 7:12
So that the law, indeed, is holy, and the precept holy and just and good.

Or is it disobedience to YHWH's law that brings the curses?

(CLV) Ro 2:13
For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified.

Pesach is YHWH's Torah, the same Torajh that Yahshua told us to follow in his example.

 

[Filippus]

1.) The last supper was the Pesach seder, the following Scriptures clearly tells us this.

Matthew 26:17-20 Now on the first day of Unleavened Bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Where will you have us prepare for you to eat the Passover?”


Mark 14:12-18 And on the first day of Unleavened Bread, when they sacrificed the Passover lamb, his disciples said to him, “Where will you have us go and prepare for you to eat the Passover?”


Luke 22:7-20 Then came the day of Unleavened Bread, on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. So, Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, “Go and prepare the Passover for us, that we may eat it.”

Is this a mistranslation? In all 3 Gospels? What are we to make of it?

No, it’s not mistranslated. It simply highlights that our understanding of God’s festivals is inadequate.

It is not a case of not having enough information, but rather people not accepting the information given by the eyewitness accounts in scripture.

It can be due to a lack of understanding or it being in conflict with how people perceive the event.

Yet these scriptures are fundamental in synchronizing the timeline.

Now that we agree that the Passover lamb was slaughtered on the 14th, these Scriptures clearly places Jesus on the 14th day when He instructs His disciples to go and prepare for the PASSOVER, also known as the Annual Preparation Day or preparation day for the Passover week.

This phrase is also often confused with the six verses referencing the crucifixion day as the day of preparation, not realizing that there are multiple days that qualify as the day of preparation.

Our discussion about how Passover was celebrated is basically summarized here in the New Testament, through the three Synoptic Gospels.

That night, the 15th, during the Passover cedar Jesus introduces the Communion. This is critical for it replaces the old with the new at the correct point in time and introduces or establishes the New Covenant on the 15th impeccably.

The physical lambs were a shadow of what was to come, simply a pointer to Jesus.

Denying this implies the New Covenant was introduced on an arbitrary day, which it wasn’t.

Some suggest that Jesus only ate the last supper, which is blatantly ignoring the clear instruction from Jesus to His disciples in the text to go and prepare for the Passover and suggesting that Jesus was a lawbreaker, which He wasn’t.

In fact, Luk 22: 15 reiterate Jesus’s own desire for eating this Passover.

Luk 22: 15 And he said to them, “I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer.

Now the night of His capture is a direct link to Israel being freed that very same night from bondage in Egypt and occurs just after midnight.

Now for those who say that they were not allowed to leave the house till morning, Moses and Aaron did when they appeared before pharaoh Ex 12:31, so there are exceptions yet ignored or argued into submission.

The Passover lamb was cooked over a fire, yet Jesus was crucified, again ignored, therefore not all the symbolism is needed or required to align Jesus as “The Passover Lamb,” but I am sure people will still struggle to accept this or find a reason to disagree.

Pharaoh declared Israel free to leave after midnight when he called Moses and Aaron to appear before him, and in the same manner, Jesus became the Passover lamb who redeemed us from sin.

Israel was led out of Egypt the same day at sunrise, the daypart still being the 15th. Likewise in the New Covenant, we were led out from sin.

Jewish tradition linking the 15th to the exodus, and the 21st to the red sea crossing. Both annual Sabbaths.

Anyway, that's my standpoint on it.

Shalom

 

[HARK!]

Setting the NT against itself again?

Your misunderstanding of scripture does not equate to my pitting scripture against scripture. If scripture appears to be contradicting itself; I've come to the understanding that I need to reevaluate my understanding of scripture. I would wish you the same success.

 

[HARK!]

That night, the 15th, during the Passover cedar Jesus introduces the Communion.

Yahshua was in the grave on the night of the 15th.

 

[Clare73]

The word "rely" isn't in that verse. Why was it added?

Because that is the meaning of the Greek; i.e.,

"For as many as are of works of law are under a curse." (Galatians 3:10)

See Deuteronomy 27:26.

 

[HARK!]

The physical lambs were a shadow of what was to come, simply a pointer to Jesus.

The lambs were slaughtered to seal a threshold covenant in all cases.

 

[Clare73]

Your misunderstanding of scripture does not equate to my pitting scripture against scripture.
If scripture appears to be contradicting itself; I've come to the understanding that
I need to reevaluate my understanding of scripture. I would wish you the same success.

Looking forward to your re-evaluation of your interpretation of the NT.

 

[HARK!]

Some suggest that Jesus only ate the last supper, which is blatantly ignoring the clear instruction from Jesus to His disciples in the text to go and prepare for the Passover and suggesting that Jesus was a lawbreaker, which He wasn’t.

No he wasn't a law breaker.


Therefor the last supper could not have been a Pescah seder.

(CLV) Lk 22:15
And He said to them, "With yearning I yearn to be eating this passover with you before My suffering.

(CLV) Lk 22:16
For I am saying to you that under no circumstances may I be eating of it till it may be fulfilled in the kingdom of God."

 

[Clare73]

Prayers.

Thanks.

 

[HARK!]

Looking forward to your re-evaluation of your interpretation of the NT.

You can start here: Paul on the Law: Romans Chapter 1

It's off topic in this thread.

Let the harmony begin!

Hope to see you there.

 

[Clare73]

You can start here: Paul on the Law: Romans Chapter 1

It's off topic in this thread.

Let the harmony begin!

Hope to see you there.

Is that a re-evaluation?

How does it differ from your former interpretation?

 

[HARK!]

Because that is the meaning of the Greek; i.e.,

Because that is the meaning of the Greek

If that what Paul meant; that is what Paul would have said.

Paul was quoting Moses. If that's what Moses meant; that is what Moses would have said. Moses didn't say it in Greek.