Passover For Christians

[Mr. M]

Passover is a Jewish family tradition.
No one has to be an observant believer. A family relationship is enough.
The modern, traditional Seder does not keep the Memorial for the feast.
What is the Memorial of Passover for a Christian?

Exodus 12:14 So this day shall be to you a memorial; and you shall keep it as a feast
to the Lord throughout your generations. You shall keep it as a feast by an everlasting ordinance.

 

[HARK!]

It's the memorial of YHWH freeing us from slavery.

 

[HARK!]

No one has to be an observant believer.

Yes YHWH gives us that liberty; but there are consequences to disobedience to our most wise father.

 

[Mr. M]

It's the memorial of YHWH freeing us from slavery.

What I am asking is whether or not the Seder varies from Messianic Judaism
to strict Orthodox, to "family tradition". In particular, the questions asked,
and how they are answered.

 

[Mr. M]

It's the memorial of YHWH freeing us from slavery.

Being freed from slavery is the remembrance of the Sabbath Day.
Deuteronomy 5:15 And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and
the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm;
therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.

The Memorials for Passover and Unleavened bread are found in Exodus 12 & 13.

 

[Mr. M]

Yes YHWH gives us that liberty; but there are consequences to disobedience to our most wise father.

The point I was making is that in most Jewish homes, a family member would
not have to be keeping Torah in strict observance in order to attend the family Seder.
Are guests allowed into the Seder you attend, and do they have to be circumcised?

 

[Der Alte]

Semi related. '95 working for DOD they closed the base I was at in Oakland. I was transferred to El Toro Marine Corps Air Station, Orange county, since closed. Moving into new apt. having cable installed. The cable guy, not Larry, had a very distinctive speaking voice. My wife never bashful told him, "You have a very nice voice you should use it to serve the Lord." He said, "I do, I'm the Cantor at my synagogue." My wife is Korean I had to explain that. A 30 min +/- cable install tuned into a 45-1hr. minute fellowship. He was Jewish from the east coast came to CA for UCLA met Campus Crusade and became a messianic. Our talk revealed that his synagogue observed all the OT feasts etc. not as a requirement of the law but a celebration of their Jewish heritage. Found out his night job, he was the voice of the San Diego Chargers.

 

[HARK!]

Being freed from slavery is the remembrance of the Sabbath Day.
Deuteronomy 5:15 And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and
the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm;
therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.

The Memorials for Passover and Unleavened bread are found in Exodus 12 & 13.

• Exodus 13:3-4
  And Moses said to the people: “Remember this day in which you went out of Egypt, out of the house of bondage; for by strength of hand the LORD brought you out of this place. No leavened bread shall be eaten. On this day you are going out, in the month Abib.

• Exodus 13:8-9
  And you shall tell your son in that day, saying, ‘This is done because of what the LORD did for me when I came up from Egypt.’ It shall be as a sign to you on your hand and as a memorial between your eyes, that the LORD’s law may be in your mouth; for with a strong hand the LORD has brought you out of Egypt.

Likewise our Passover in Yahshua frees us from the bondage of transgression of YHWH's perfect law.

• 1 Corinthians 5:7-8
  Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

 

[HARK!]

Our talk revealed that his synagogue observed all the OT feasts etc. not as a requirement of the law but a celebration of their Jewish heritage. Found out his night job, he was the voice of the San Diego Chargers.

I would run from a synagogue that twisted YHWH's appointments into a celebration of honoring themselves. Most Messianics have no "Jewish" (whatever that means) heritage in my experience.

 

[tampasteve]

I think that most Jewish homes participate in Passover, even if that is the only observance they maintain. As to the question

What I am asking is whether or not the Seder varies from Messianic Judaism
to strict Orthodox, to "family tradition".

Yes, it varies by region, stream of Judaism and so forth. The Messianic Seder is not the same as an Orthodox one, but I know there are Messianic followers that celebrate an Orthodox style seder - but not the opposite.

I personally celebrate a Messianic style.

 

[tampasteve]

Most Messianics have no "Jewish" (whatever that means) heritage in my experience.

That's true. Some Messianic congregations may have a Jewish Rabbi, some don't. Most have a few halachically Jewish members, but by and large the congregation will be non-Jews.

 

[ChetSinger]

Semi related. '95 working for DOD they closed the base I was at in Oakland. I was transferred to El Toro Marine Corps Air Station, Orange county, since closed. Moving into new apt. having cable installed. The cable guy, not Larry, had a very distinctive speaking voice. My wife never bashful told him, "You have a very nice voice you should use it to serve the Lord." He said, "I do, I'm the Cantor at my synagogue." My wife is Korean I had to explain that. A 30 min +/- cable install tuned into a 45-1hr. minute fellowship. He was Jewish from the east coast came to CA for UCLA met Campus Crusade and became a messianic. Our talk revealed that his synagogue observed all the OT feasts etc. not as a requirement of the law but a celebration of their Jewish heritage. Found out his night job, he was the voice of the San Diego Chargers.

I once attended a public passover hosted by a local messianic congregation. It was a wonderful experience.

They believed the tradition of the afikomen was created by the first Jewish Christians and that it represented Jesus, whose body was broken (the afikomen is broken), wrapped in linen (it's wrapped), buried (it's hidden), and raised (it's found and rewarded with a treat).

 

[Mr. M]

Yes, it varies by region, stream of Judaism and so forth. The Messianic Seder is not the same as an Orthodox one, but I know there are Messianic followers that celebrate an Orthodox style seder - but not the opposite.

I personally celebrate a Messianic style.

What is the approach to the Q & A of the Seder that makes it Messianic compared
to Orthodox.
Full disclosure, I have read the four questions that children ask, and the household
patriarch's answers for the "traditional family" Seder on line. I do not find this lines
up with Torah in Exodus 12.
Exodus 12:
26 And it shall be, when your children say to you, ‘What do you mean by this service?’
27 that you shall say, It is the Passover sacrifice of the Lord, who passed over the houses
of the children of Israel in Egypt when He struck the Egyptians and delivered our households.
So the people bowed their heads and worshiped.

As the name of the Feast implies, the Memorial points to how the destroyer "passed over"
the Hebrew homes with the lamb's blood on their doorposts and lintels sparing their firstborn,
both man and beast. This led to the consecration of the firstborn in Exodus 13.

 

[klutedavid]

Passover is a Jewish family tradition.
No one has to be an observant believer. A family relationship is enough.
The modern, traditional Seder does not keep the Memorial for the feast.
What is the Memorial of Passover for a Christian?

Exodus 12:14 So this day shall be to you a memorial; and you shall keep it as a feast
to the Lord throughout your generations. You shall keep it as a feast by an everlasting ordinance.

Gentiles cannot celebrate the Passover unless they are circumcised. So that excludes the Gentiles from the Passover.

 

[HARK!]

What I am asking is whether or not the Seder varies from Messianic Judaism
to strict Orthodox, to "family tradition". In particular, the questions asked,
and how they are answered.

I wouldn't know. My congregation is sort of shocked by the way that I keep Pesach. I'm sort of shocked by the way that they keep it, for example, dining off of a hexagram. We've had long talks about it. I keep it according to the Torah. ...and no, the police don't come.

 

[tampasteve]

What is the approach to the Q & A of the Seder that makes it Messianic compared
to Orthodox.
Full disclosure, I have read the four questions that children ask, and the household
patriarch's answers for the "traditional family" Seder on line. I do not find this lines
up with Torah in Exodus 12.
Exodus 12:
26 And it shall be, when your children say to you, ‘What do you mean by this service?’
27 that you shall say, It is the Passover sacrifice of the Lord, who passed over the houses
of the children of Israel in Egypt when He struck the Egyptians and delivered our households.
So the people bowed their heads and worshiped.

As the name of the Feast implies, the Memorial points to how the destroyer "passed over"
the Hebrew homes with the lamb's blood on their doorposts and lintels sparing their firstborn,
both man and beast. This led to the consecration of the firstborn in Exodus 13.

Not so much the Q&A, but the symbolism.

Here is a good resource:
DISCOVER

 

[HARK!]

Gentiles cannot celebrate the Passover unless they are circumcised. So that excludes the Gentiles from the Passover.

Gentiles were never permitted to partake of the Pesach, circumcised or not.

 

[Mr. M]

dining off of a hexagram

Do you want to elaborate, or is that personal?

 

[HARK!]

Do you want to elaborate, or is that personal?

Passover Seder plate - Wikipedia

 

[Mr. M]

Gentiles were never permitted to partake of the Pesach, circumcised or not.

You are confusing the Torah for "foreigners who are visiting Israel with strangers who dwelt
among them. Strangers and servants who were circumcised could eat the Passover.
Exodus 12:
43 And the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, This is the ordinance of the Passover:
No foreigner shall eat it.
44 But every man’s servant who is bought for money, when you have circumcised him,
then he may eat it.
45 A sojourner and a hired servant shall not eat it.
46 In one house it shall be eaten; you shall not carry any of the flesh outside the house,
nor shall you break one of its bones.
47 All the congregation of Israel shall keep it.
48 And when a stranger dwells with you and wants to keep the Passover to the Lord,
let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall
be as a native of the land. For no uncircumcised person shall eat it.
49 One law shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells among you.