Passover For Christians

Torah Keeper

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This is quite easy. The new moon Feast timing is different to the sighting of the new moon's crescent that determined the first day of the month. The new moon Festival or feast was after the sighting of the new moon crescent. (see 1 Samuel 20:27). Psalms 81:3 is only stating that the trumpets are blown at the sighting of the new moon. It was done to declare the beginning of the new month once the crescent moon was sighted. You can read more about it from the Jews here linked.

You can clearly read the verses I provided. Psalm 81:3 states no such thing as looking for a crescent and then blowing a trumpet. You can read the verse yourself in Hebrew and tell me the definition of "keseh". It is used about 100 times in the Bible and always means hidden. Never crescent.

And you didn't explain how David and Jonathan and everyone else knew beforehand when the new moon would be. They didn't wait to look for a crescent and then blow a horn.

Instead of reading more about it from the Jews here linked, how about we read the Bible and use it to decide the truth instead of Jewish traditions. And this is coming from me, a Sephardic Messianic.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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You can clearly read the verses I provided. Psalm 81:3 states no such thing as looking for a crescent and then blowing a trumpet. You can read the verse yourself in Hebrew and tell me the definition of "keseh". It is used about 100 times in the Bible and always means hidden. Never crescent.

And you didn't explain how David and Jonathan and everyone else knew beforehand when the new moon would be. They didn't wait to look for a crescent and then blow a horn.

Instead of reading more about it from the Jews here linked, how about we read the Bible and use it to decide the truth instead of Jewish traditions. And this is coming from me, a Sephardic Messianic.
As posted earlier the trumpets were used to let Gods' people know that the new moon was sighted (Numbers 10:10; Psalms 81:3). Read the linked Jewish commentaries if your not sure as they discuss it in detail there. 1 Samuel was already explained in the post you were quoting from. It is a reference to the Feast of the new moon after the sighting not the sighting of the new moon.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Preparation for the weekly Sabbath or preparation for Chag HaMatsa is what is debated. The Friday to Sunday RCC teaching does not give the 3 days and 3 nights.

The phrase "High Sabbath", may actually be referring to the 15th by itself, and not including the weekly Sabbath.

If Yeshua was unable to keep Pesach then He should have kept it on the second month, correct? According to Scripture?

It seems to me that He kept it at the proper time, even if the ruling class did not.

The day of preparation is only on erev Shabbat. In this case it was the same thing. The 14th on Friday was erev Shabbat and Shabbat (the 15th) was also a "high day". We have Yeshua rising on the 3rd day, Sunday, the 1st day of the week.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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I am absolutely certain that Jesus' last supper was a scriptural Passover Seder but the scriptural exception not the calendar Seder.
Jesus observed the Passover on the day we call Thursday.
All four gospels agree that Jesus was crucified on Friday; Matthew 27:62, Mark 15:42, Luke 23:54, John 19:14, John 19:31, John 19:42. It is translated "preparation" in the NT. The Greek name, then and now, for the day we call Friday was and is "paraskeue" which in Greek means "preparation."
All four gospels agree that Jesus was in the tomb on Saturday which was a weekly and annual Sabbath; c.f. Matthew 28:1, Mark 15:42, Mark 16:1, Luke 23:54, John 19:31
If as it appears the annual Sabbath coincided with the weekly Sabbath, i.e. a high day. The first day of Unleavened bread, which is an annual Sabbath was on the day after "Paraskeue"/"Friday." was also "Passover."
How do we reconcile all this?
Numbers 9:10-11
10 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If any man of you or of your posterity shall be unclean by reason of a dead body, or be in a journey afar off, yet he shall keep the passover unto the LORD.
11 The fourteenth day of the second month at even they shall keep it, and eat it with unleavened bread and bitter herbs.​
Jesus knew He would not be available on Passover so He observed it on the scriptural alternate day.

I agree with most of what you said but you think Yeshua kept the Pesakh 1 month later (Pesakh Sheni)? Is that what you are saying? He had a rehearsal dinner that had aspects of the Pesakh meal (obviously with no lamb) on the 13th/14th evening called a Seudah haMafsekhet (literally the last supper before the fast, in this case, the fast of the firstborn on the daylight hours of the 14th with the Pesakh meal breaking the fast).
 
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Filippus

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I am absolutely certain that Jesus' last supper was a scriptural Passover Seder but the scriptural exception not the calendar Seder.
Jesus observed the Passover on the day we call Thursday.
All four gospels agree that Jesus was crucified on Friday; Matthew 27:62, Mark 15:42, Luke 23:54, John 19:14, John 19:31, John 19:42. It is translated "preparation" in the NT. The Greek name, then and now, for the day we call Friday was and is "paraskeue" which in Greek means "preparation."
All four gospels agree that Jesus was in the tomb on Saturday which was a weekly and annual Sabbath; c.f. Matthew 28:1, Mark 15:42, Mark 16:1, Luke 23:54, John 19:31
If as it appears the annual Sabbath coincided with the weekly Sabbath, i.e. a high day. The first day of Unleavened bread, which is an annual Sabbath was on the day after "Paraskeue"/"Friday." was also "Passover."
How do we reconcile all this?
Numbers 9:10-11
10 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If any man of you or of your posterity shall be unclean by reason of a dead body, or be in a journey afar off, yet he shall keep the passover unto the LORD.
11 The fourteenth day of the second month at even they shall keep it, and eat it with unleavened bread and bitter herbs.​
Jesus knew He would not be available on Passover so He observed it on the scriptural alternate day.
How do you explain Matt12:40?
 
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Filippus

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Preparation for the weekly Sabbath or preparation for Chag HaMatsa is what is debated. The Friday to Sunday RCC teaching does not give the 3 days and 3 nights.

The phrase "High Sabbath", may actually be referring to the 15th by itself, and not including the weekly Sabbath.

If Yeshua was unable to keep Pesach then He should have kept it on the second month, correct? According to Scripture?

It seems to me that He kept it at the proper time, even if the ruling class did not.

The phrase "High Sabbath", may actually be referring to the 15th OR 21st by itself, and not including the weekly Sabbath.
 
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Filippus

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The day of preparation is only on erev Shabbat. In this case it was the same thing. The 14th on Friday was erev Shabbat and Shabbat (the 15th) was also a "high day". We have Yeshua rising on the 3rd day, Sunday, the 1st day of the week.
And Matt 12:40 is explained how
 
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LoveGodsWord

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And Matt 12:40 is explained how
Jewish reckoning for a day can include parts of days/nights (e.g. Esther 4:16; Esther 5:1 see also Matthew 28:1 with Luke 24:5-7).
Resting on the Sabbath.jpg


Take Care
 
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Filippus

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Jewish reckoning for a day can includes part of days (e.g. Esther 4:16; Esther 5:1 see also Matthew 28:1 with Luke 24:5-7).
View attachment 311291
Take Care

That's true, but not 3 days and 3 nights

It's like celebrating the week of unleavened bread but for 5 days.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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That's true, but not 3 days and 3 nights

It's like celebrating the week of unleavened bread but for 5 days.
See the chart. You get three days and three nights in Jewish reckoning of time.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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And Matt 12:40 is explained how

Already explained it in previous posts (37 & 41 I believe?). It does not have to be 72 hrs. Any part of a day is considered as the whole. Also remember He also said..."in 3 days" and "on the 3rd day"...
 
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ChetSinger

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Preparation for the weekly Sabbath or preparation for Chag HaMatsa is what is debated. The Friday to Sunday RCC teaching does not give the 3 days and 3 nights.

The phrase "High Sabbath", may actually be referring to the 15th by itself, and not including the weekly Sabbath.

If Yeshua was unable to keep Pesach then He should have kept it on the second month, correct? According to Scripture?

It seems to me that He kept it at the proper time, even if the ruling class did not.
This might be coming out of left field, but when I attended a public Passover hosted by a local Messianic congregation they believed there were two sabbaths that week, on Thursday and Saturday, and that Jesus was crucified on Wednesday. And that he rose on Saturday but didn't appear until Sunday. Thus they get the 'three days and three nights'. That threw me for a loop. Is that a commonly-held belief?
 
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Torah Keeper

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This might be coming out of left field, but when I attended a public Passover hosted by a local Messianic congregation they believed there were two sabbaths that week, on Thursday and Saturday, and that Jesus was crucified on Wednesday. And that he rose on Saturday but didn't appear until Sunday. Thus they get the 'three days and three nights'. That threw me for a loop. Is that a commonly-held belief?

Most people opt for a Friday crucifixion. But a Thursday crucifixion gives a much better fulfillment of 3 days and 3 nights, and has Yeshua rising on Sunday, which was also Yom HaBikkurim (The Day of Firstfruits).

Putting the crucifixion on any other day besides Thursday or Friday is really rare. Humble Penny and Hark seem to think it was Tuesday. I think it was Thursday.
 
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Der Alte

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Most people opt for a Friday crucifixion. But a Thursday crucifixion gives a much better fulfillment of 3 days and 3 nights, and has Yeshua rising on Sunday, which was also Yom HaBikkurim (The Day of Firstfruits).
Putting the crucifixion on any other day besides Thursday or Friday is really rare. Humble Penny and Hark seem to think it was Tuesday. I think it was Thursday.
But for the fact that all 4 gospels agree that Jesus was crucified before sundown on "παρασκευη"/"Parasceue" which then was and now is the Greek name of the week day we call Friday.
Matthew 27:62
62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,[seeking Jesus' body]
Mark 15:42
42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,
Luke 23:54
54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
John 19:14
14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
John 19:31
31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.​
Some folks argue that there were two Sabbaths in passion week. They are correct, the weekly Sabbath and the annual Sabbath of the 1st ULB, but they coincided on one calendar day, which we call Saturday.
 
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Der Alte

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Does "three days and three nights" unquestionably mean literally 72 hours, no more, no less?
Here is a link to a 12 page article disproving this theory, which includes several examples from the O.T..

Three Days and Three Nights

Three Day and Three Nights
Today, there is a vocal minority of Christians who have made a tremendous issue out of the phrase "three days and three nights." They insist that Jesus used the expression because He was to be in the grave exactly seventy-two hours, not a second more or second less. This conviction has led them to conclude that Christ was crucified on Wednesday afternoon and was resurrected at the same hour late Sabbath afternoon. In this way they account for the full seventy-two hours which they believe Christ spent in the tomb.
On seventeen separate occasions, Jesus or His friends spoke of the timetable involving His death and resurrection.
ŸTen times it was specified that the resurrection would take place on the "third day" (Mat.16:21; 17:23; 20:19; Mark 9:31; 10:34, Luke 9:22; 13:32; 18:33; 24:7,46).
ŸOn five occasions they said, "in three days" (Matthew 26:61; 27:40, Mark 15:29, John 2:19-20).
ŸTwice they used the phrase, "after three days" (Matthew 27:63, Mark 8:31).
ŸAnd one time only Jesus spoke of His death as "three days and three nights" (Matthew 12:40).
Without question, all of these various expressions are used to describe the very same event. There seems to be no controversy regarding this point. "The third day," "in three days," "after three days," and "three days and three nights" are equivalent terms used in the scripture in reference to the resurrection of Jesus.
Expressions Cannot Be Literal
Now we ask the question: Can all of these expressions be taken in a strictly literal sense and still harmonize with each other? Absolutely not! For example, "after three days" would certainly have to be interpreted as longer than seventy-two hours. "In three days" could mean anytime less than seventy-two hours, and "three days and three nights" could only mean exactly seventy-two hours to the second. And "the third day" presents even greater problems as we shall notice in a moment.
Does this sound terribly confusing? If so, it is only because men have placed their own interpretation upon the meaning of God's Word. We must let the scripture explain itself, and especially, we must let Christ provide definitions for the words which He spoke. It would be a mammoth mistake to seize upon any one of the expressions used and force its strict compliance with our interpretation without reference to the other sixteen texts on the subject.​
 
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ChetSinger

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But for the fact that all 4 gospels agree that Jesus was crucified before sundown on "παρασκευη"/"Parasceue" which then was and now is the Greek name of the week day we call Friday.
Matthew 27:62
62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,[seeking Jesus' body]
Mark 15:42
42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,
Luke 23:54
54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
John 19:14
14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
John 19:31
31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.​
Some folks argue that there were two Sabbaths in passion week. They are correct, the weekly Sabbath and the annual Sabbath of the 1st ULB, but they coincided on one calendar day, which we call Saturday.
This was interesting: I just put "παρασκευη" into Google Translate and it returned "Friday". That was completely unexpected.
 
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Torah Keeper

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14 And it was the preparation of the passover,

If Yeshua was crucified on Friday, you cannot possibly get 3 nights, and 3 days. Even including the last hour of Friday as a day. Look:

Friday-Day 1
Erev Shabbat-Night 1
Boker Shabbat-Day 2
Erev Sunday-Night 2
Yeshua rose before sunrise. So you can't include Sunday morning as the 3rd day. Even if you did, you are still missing another night. It doesn't add up.

That's why a Thursday crucifixion makes sense. The preparation day was for Passover, as I quoted from your post above. This gives 2 rest days followed by Sunday. It fits. It adds up. 3 days and 3 nights. Just as Yeshua said.
 
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