Outer Calling And Inner Calling.......

[Thekla]

what's your point ?

are you saying the meaning is esoteric , that the meaning isn't plain ?

when I read 'love' in scripture I know what it means even though the Greeks had half a dozen words to describe different facets of love.

if you have a point you wish to make then please make it , researching Calvin's view of a GK word will take as long for me as it would for you.

I may be wrong, but I've gotten the sense that predestine in Calvinist thought is close to "fate" (which is ineluctable). Is this incorrect ?

Greek is a great deal more nuanced than English; this is not "esoteric", but an oft ignored feature in translation. Agape and philia are not used interchangeably, and both have distinct meanings. These meanings, in use and understanding, are distinct from eros (which means more than its inappropriately narrowed use in English).

As for researching, I thought you might know, as you a great deal more well-studied in Calvinist understanding than me.

My point is: what does "predestine" mean in Calvinist thought, and how was this meaning derived vis a vis the other possible meanings that Paul could have used, as reflected in his particular word choice ?

 

[cygnusx1]

here is something Thekla and i may agree on ;

Basilius Caesariensis. A.D. 370.
Basil of Caesarea asserts, that sanctification is the work of the Holy Spirit, and entirely owing to the preventing grace of God. Speaking of the Holy Spirit, he says,108 that “there is no sanctification without him; and that109 we have learnt concerning him by the divine writings, auto estin o tous agious, agious epoiese, that he it is who makes the saints saints, and gives divine life to them that ask God by him.”’ And in another place,110 “The Spirit is not a creature, but the character of God’s holiness kai pege tois pasin agiasmou, ‘and the fountain of holiness to all,’ as the apostle teach; we are called in the holiness of the Spirit; makes us a new creature, abiding for ever.” And elsewhere,111 “It was impossible to be born again me prolabouses charitos tou Theou, without the preventing grace of God.” “Faith,” he says, “is the work of God,” and he means not what God requires of us, but what he works in us. “if our faith in the Son,” says he,112 “is the work of God, for this is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent, he himself, that is the Son, cannot be the work of God.” Moreover he says,113 that “faith is not in us through geometrical proofs, but tais tou Pneumatos energeis, by the effectual operations of the Spirit.” Again; he affirms114 that “is to be held for certain, and to be confessed, that the grace of every good thing, and so the patience of those things which we suffer for the sake of Christ, para Theou uparchein, are from God:” for the proof of which he cites John 3:27; 1 Corinthians 4:7; Ephesians 2:8, 9; Philippians 1:29. He frequently ascribes the whole of salvation to the free grace of God, to which he gives all the glory, and rejects boasting in the creature. “Let no man,” says he,115 “praise my industry by which I am saved from dangers; for salvation is not in the power or wisdom of man, but in the grace of God.” And elsewhere,116 “Nothing is left for thee, O man, of which thou canst boast, whose glorifying and hope lie in this, that thou mortify all thy will, and seek life to come in Christ, of which we having in these things the first fruits, entirely live by the grace and gift of God (Phil. 2:13). Why therefore, I pray thee, dost thou extol thyself as if thou didst good things of thine own, when thou shouldest give thanks for gifts to the giver of them? (1 Cor. 4:7). God is not made known to thee by thy righteousness, but thou to God by his goodness (Gal. 4:9). Thou hast not apprehended Christ by thine own power, but Christ thee by his coming (Phil. 3:12).”


here the word "preventing" means simply to go before .

 

[Van]

Hi Thekla, here is a little more on predestination.
PREDESTINED


When God says something will happen, it is predestined because God keeps his promises and intervenes as necessary to influence people and events and circumstances such that what was prophesied occurs. That is the meaning of predestined. Before the foundation of the world, God formulated a salvation plan. All the events that brought that plan to fruition in the life, death and resurrection of Christ Jesus were predestined.
God's plan was salvation by grace through faith. This was predestined.

Now where people differ is in two areas, one the scope of God's predestination, and two whether God chose foreseen individuals before the foundation of the world to be saved or to be condemned. Biblical predestination is limited in scope, but some differ and assert God predestines every thought of every person, past, present and future. The other mistaken view can be summarized as believing “we are saved or damned for all eternity because we were saved or damned from all eternity.”

As I will show, the term predestined is only used in conjunction with God's salvation plan, either as it relates directly with Christ, or how it relates to the saved, those God puts into Christ. Calvinists take this solid biblical truth and extrapolate it, they say God predestines everything, every circumstance and thought of every life. The Bible not only does not teach this extrapolation, it teaches the opposite, that we make choices as the norm and God influences, as an exception, some individuals such that their choices are predestined because they are part of God's predestined plan.

The other error of Calvinists, concerning the concept of predestination is to assert that we, the saved, are predestined to be saved as part of God's salvation plan. But what the Bible actually teaches is all those, whoever they might turn out to be, who God puts into Christ, are predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ, to be called to a Holy calling of serving God, and to be adopted as Sons of God to an inheritance of eternal life. Note that all these predestined things only apply to those "in Christ" and not to those not yet in Christ.

When the Bible says that God chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world, what is being said is that God chose Christ and generically as the target group of His salvation plan, all those who God would put into Christ by grace through faith, whoever they turn out to be. In other words, God elected or chose a target group (the object of His plan) and not specific individuals before the foundation of the world, all those that would be put into Christ during their lifetimes, and then during our lifetimes elected or chose us individually when God put us into Christ based on accepting our faith as heart-felt and then granting us grace.

In summary, Predestination is the concept that what God says is going to occur, will occur because God keeps his promises. The Bible does not teach total predestination of everything, every circumstance and every thought, but instead teaches limited intervention to bring God's plan of salvation to fruition. And this plan includes salvation by grace through faith.

It is a false dichotomy to place predestination in opposition to free will choice. Both co-exist under God's dispensation. As usual, what Calvinist do is extrapolate limited predestination affecting some specific individuals and some circumstances concerning groups of people, and assert everything is predestined. In the same way, Calvinists take passages that say God's knowledge and understanding is beyond what we can know, and assert this means God must know all things past, present and future, every thought and choice that will occur in this age. Calvinist do not allow for God choosing to learn things based on our free will decisions because that is His purpose and plan. Thus they contort God on their Procrustean bed.

The Greek term transliterated as proorizo and translated usually as predestined appears 7 times in six verses in the New Testament.

In Acts 4:28 it is used to describe that the suffering of Christ was predestined as part of God’s foretold plan of redemption. So the term applies to a feature of God’s predetermined plan.

In Romans 8:29 all those in Christ are predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ. So, again, the term applies to a feature of God’s predetermined plan applicable to anyone in Christ, not to those not yet in Christ.

In Romans 8:30 the term simply repeats the usage of Romans 8:29, those predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ are called to a Holy calling.

In 1 Corinthians 2:7 the term is again applied to Christ as the predestined Lord of Glory.

In Ephesians 1:5 the term is applied to all those in Christ as predestined to be adopted as sons, raised in glorified bodies.

In Ephesians 1:11 the term is applied to those in Christ as being predestined to an inheritance, everlasting life with God, which is the fulfillment of God’s purpose in creation and predestined plan from all eternity.

In summary, the term is only applied to features of God’s predetermined plan affecting Christ or all those, whoever they may be, in Christ. It is never used to describe either the general preselection of every specific individual nor the general preselection of specific individuals with foreseen faith, which are the erroneous views of the Calvinists and the Arminians

 

[Thekla]

here is something Thekla and i may agree on ;

Basilius Caesariensis. A.D. 370.
Basil of Caesarea asserts, that sanctification is the work of the Holy Spirit, and entirely owing to the preventing grace of God. Speaking of the Holy Spirit, he says,108 that “there is no sanctification without him; and that109 we have learnt concerning him by the divine writings, auto estin o tous agious, agious epoiese, that he it is who makes the saints saints, and gives divine life to them that ask God by him.”’ And in another place,110 “The Spirit is not a creature, but the character of God’s holiness kai pege tois pasin agiasmou, ‘and the fountain of holiness to all,’ as the apostle teach; we are called in the holiness of the Spirit; makes us a new creature, abiding for ever.” And elsewhere,111 “It was impossible to be born again me prolabouses charitos tou Theou, without the preventing grace of God.” “Faith,” he says, “is the work of God,” and he means not what God requires of us, but what he works in us. “if our faith in the Son,” says he,112 “is the work of God, for this is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent, he himself, that is the Son, cannot be the work of God.” Moreover he says,113 that “faith is not in us through geometrical proofs, but tais tou Pneumatos energeis, by the effectual operations of the Spirit.” Again; he affirms114 that “is to be held for certain, and to be confessed, that the grace of every good thing, and so the patience of those things which we suffer for the sake of Christ, para Theou uparchein, are from God:” for the proof of which he cites John 3:27; 1 Corinthians 4:7; Ephesians 2:8, 9; Philippians 1:29. He frequently ascribes the whole of salvation to the free grace of God, to which he gives all the glory, and rejects boasting in the creature. “Let no man,” says he,115 “praise my industry by which I am saved from dangers; for salvation is not in the power or wisdom of man, but in the grace of God.” And elsewhere,116 “Nothing is left for thee, O man, of which thou canst boast, whose glorifying and hope lie in this, that thou mortify all thy will, and seek life to come in Christ, of which we having in these things the first fruits, entirely live by the grace and gift of God (Phil. 2:13). Why therefore, I pray thee, dost thou extol thyself as if thou didst good things of thine own, when thou shouldest give thanks for gifts to the giver of them? (1 Cor. 4:7). God is not made known to thee by thy righteousness, but thou to God by his goodness (Gal. 4:9). Thou hast not apprehended Christ by thine own power, but Christ thee by his coming (Phil. 3:12).”


here the word "preventing" means simply to go before .

likely so, though we may understand it differently

note, where the Greek is given, Basilius uses energia, not dynamis (both words are used in the NT, but typically treated as interchangeable in translation).

[As another example, when Christ asks Peter three times, "Do you love me", He uses both agape and philia - yet they are both translated as love in - most ?- English Bibles.]

This is why my other question -- I may be misunderstanding the Calvinist use of the word predestine.

 

[cygnusx1]

Reformed Doctrine of Predestination is not fatalism

Chapter XXVI - A Comparison With The Mohammedan
Doctrine of Predestination ​

http://www.bloomingtonrpchurch.org/refdocpre/26.htm​

 

[Thekla]

Hi Thekla, here is a little more on predestination.
PREDESTINED


When God says something will happen, it is predestined because God keeps his promises and intervenes as necessary to influence people and events and circumstances such that what was prophesied occurs. That is the meaning of predestined. Before the foundation of the world, God formulated a salvation plan. All the events that brought that plan to fruition in the life, death and resurrection of Christ Jesus were predestined.
God's plan was salvation by grace through faith. This was predestined.

Now where people differ is in two areas, one the scope of God's predestination, and two whether God chose foreseen individuals before the foundation of the world to be saved or to be condemned. Biblical predestination is limited in scope, but some differ and assert God predestines every thought of every person, past, present and future. The other mistaken view can be summarized as believing “we are saved or damned for all eternity because we were saved or damned from all eternity.”

As I will show, the term predestined is only used in conjunction with God's salvation plan, either as it relates directly with Christ, or how it relates to the saved, those God puts into Christ. Calvinists take this solid biblical truth and extrapolate it, they say God predestines everything, every circumstance and thought of every life. The Bible not only does not teach this extrapolation, it teaches the opposite, that we make choices as the norm and God influences, as an exception, some individuals such that their choices are predestined because they are part of God's predestined plan.

The other error of Calvinists, concerning the concept of predestination is to assert that we, the saved, are predestined to be saved as part of God's salvation plan. But what the Bible actually teaches is all those, whoever they might turn out to be, who God puts into Christ, are predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ, to be called to a Holy calling of serving God, and to be adopted as Sons of God to an inheritance of eternal life. Note that all these predestined things only apply to those "in Christ" and not to those not yet in Christ.

When the Bible says that God chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world, what is being said is that God chose Christ and generically as the target group of His salvation plan, all those who God would put into Christ by grace through faith, whoever they turn out to be. In other words, God elected or chose a target group (the object of His plan) and not specific individuals before the foundation of the world, all those that would be put into Christ during their lifetimes, and then during our lifetimes elected or chose us individually when God put us into Christ based on accepting our faith as heart-felt and then granting us grace.

In summary, Predestination is the concept that what God says is going to occur, will occur because God keeps his promises. The Bible does not teach total predestination of everything, every circumstance and every thought, but instead teaches limited intervention to bring God's plan of salvation to fruition. And this plan includes salvation by grace through faith.

It is a false dichotomy to place predestination in opposition to free will choice. Both co-exist under God's dispensation. As usual, what Calvinist do is extrapolate limited predestination affecting some specific individuals and some circumstances concerning groups of people, and assert everything is predestined. In the same way, Calvinists take passages that say God's knowledge and understanding is beyond what we can know, and assert this means God must know all things past, present and future, every thought and choice that will occur in this age. Calvinist do not allow for God choosing to learn things based on our free will decisions because that is His purpose and plan. Thus they contort God on their Procrustean bed.

The Greek term transliterated as proorizo and translated usually as predestined appears 7 times in six verses in the New Testament.

In Acts 4:28 it is used to describe that the suffering of Christ was predestined as part of God’s foretold plan of redemption. So the term applies to a feature of God’s predetermined plan.

In Romans 8:29 all those in Christ are predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ. So, again, the term applies to a feature of God’s predetermined plan applicable to anyone in Christ, not to those not yet in Christ.

In Romans 8:30 the term simply repeats the usage of Romans 8:29, those predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ are called to a Holy calling.

In 1 Corinthians 2:7 the term is again applied to Christ as the predestined Lord of Glory.

In Ephesians 1:5 the term is applied to all those in Christ as predestined to be adopted as sons, raised in glorified bodies.

In Ephesians 1:11 the term is applied to those in Christ as being predestined to an inheritance, everlasting life with God, which is the fulfillment of God’s purpose in creation and predestined plan from all eternity.

In summary, the term is only applied to features of God’s predetermined plan affecting Christ or all those, whoever they may be, in Christ. It is never used to describe either the general preselection of every specific individual nor the general preselection of specific individuals with foreseen faith, which are the erroneous views of the Calvinists and the Arminians

thank-you

 

[cygnusx1]

I may be wrong, but I've gotten the sense that predestine in Calvinist thought is close to "fate" (which is ineluctable). Is this incorrect ?

no ,Calvin spoke out against fatalism as did Augustine.

Greek is a great deal more nuanced than English; this is not "esoteric", but an oft ignored feature in translation. Agape and philia are not used interchangeably, and both have distinct meanings. These meanings, in use and understanding, are distinct from eros (which means more than its inappropriately narrowed use in English).

are you opposed to translating the Bible into the language of the common people , for Christians need God's word not endless arguements over the meaning of words which is forbidden

As for researching, I thought you might know, as you a great deal more well-studied in Calvinist understanding than me.

have you any idea how large the study of Calvin/Calvinism is ......I have many works and Calvins commentaries and sermons , most of which can be had free online , i suppose someone somewhere has looked at your question in depth something of a specialist subject within a specialist subject

My point is: what does "predestine" mean in Calvinist thought, and how was this meaning derived vis a vis the other possible meanings that Paul could have used, as reflected in his particular word choice ?

it means to plan , decree , purpose beforehand what comes to pass in time.

you wish to study greek words and how these diffent words are applied by calvin . my suggestion is you go online.

 

[Thekla]

Reformed Doctrine of Predestination is not fatalism

Chapter XXVI - A Comparison With The Mohammedan
Doctrine of Predestination ​

http://www.bloomingtonrpchurch.org/refdocpre/26.htm​

thank-you, I will continue reading .
I do note, in another section, the author states "our destiny is fixed", but will need to read more ...

 

[Thekla]

no ,Calvin spoke out against fatalism as did Augustine.

is fatalism is a human "attitude" (as opposed to a description of God's actions) ?

are you opposed to translating the Bible into the language of the common people , for Christians need God's word not endless arguements over the meaning of words which is forbidden

not at all ! translators have, however, a huge responsibility - and this should not be avoided for convenience' sake, especially with the translation of the Bible.

have you any idea how large the study of Calvin/Calvinism is ......I have many works and Calvins commentaries and sermons , most of which can be had free online , i suppose someone somewhere has looked at your question in depth something of a specialist subject within a specialist subject

I hope so -- now to find it ; does anyone know of such a study ?

it means to plan , decree , purpose beforehand what comes to pass in time.

we're getting closer maybe ...

you wish to study greek words and how these diffent words are applied by calvin . my suggestion is you go online.

there's a month I don't have ... any suggestions ?

 

[cygnusx1]

Calvinism is a worldview. J.I Packer put it this way in his intro to John Owen’s The Death of Death in the Death of Christ:

In the first place, Calvinism is something much broader than the ‘five points’ indicate. Calvinism is a whole world-view, stemming from a clear vision of God as the whole world’s Maker and King. Calvinism is the consistent endeavor to acknowledge the Creator as the Lord, working all things after the counsel of his will. Calvinism is a theocentric way of thinking about all life under the direction and control of God’s own word. Calvinism, in other words, is the theology of the Bible viewed from the perspective of the Bible - the God-centered outlook which sees the Creator as the source, and means, and end, of everything that is, both in nature and in grace. Calvinism is thus theism (belief in God as the ground of all things), religion (dependence on God as the giver of all things), and evangelicalism (trust in God through Christ for all things), all in their purest and most highly developed form. And Calvinism is a unified philosophy of history which sees the whole diversity of processes and events that take place in God’s world as no more, and no less, than the outworking of his great preordained plan for his creatures and his church. The five points assert no more than God is sovereign in saving the individual, but Calvinism, as such, is concerned with the much broader assertion that he is sovereign everywhere.
Then, in the second place, the ‘five points’ present Calvinistic soteriology in a negative and polemical form, whereas Calvinism in itself is essentially expository, pastoral and constructive. It can define its position in terms of Scripture without any reference to Arminianism, and it does not need to be forever fighting real or imaginary Arminians in order to keep itself alive. Calvinism has no interest in negatives, as such; when Calvinists fight, they fight for positive evangelical values. The negative cast of the ‘five points’ is misleading chiefly with regard to the third (limited atonement, or particular redemption), which is often read with stress on the adjective and taken as indicating that Calvinists have a special interest in confining the limits of divine mercy. But in fact the purpose of this phraseology, as we shall see, is to safeguard the central affirmation of the gospel - that Christ is a redeemer who really does redeem. Similarly, the denials of an election that is conditional and of grace that is resistible are intended to safeguard the positive truth that it is God who saves. The real negations are those of Arminianism, which denies that election, redemption and calling are saving acts of God. Calvinism negates these negations order to assert the positive content of the gospel, for the positive purpose of strengthening faith and building up the church.
​

 

[Thekla]

another;

does the inner/outer call have any relation to man's creation in the image and toward the likeness of God ?

In Calvinism, do we retain or lose the image at the fall ?

 

[Thekla]

this helps, too

 

[cygnusx1]

is fatalism is a human "attitude" (as opposed to a description of God's actions) ?

it is first and foremost a philosophy not an action.

Fatalists deny the need for secondary causation , all is God's will , fatalists see no difference between the will of the sinner in sin and God's will ...... they think God sins!

not at all ! translators have, however, a huge responsibility - and this should not be avoided for convenience' sake, especially with the translation of the Bible.

OK , but now we are literally swamped with translations , all based upon the latest , best , newest , most sanctioned slogans to flog em ..... do you use one translation ?

I hope so -- now to find it ; does anyone know of such a study ?

I am rather hesitant to say google it , after some here think googling a sentence is proof of academic qualification , until they are proved how stupid that is , but it may be a start , just read what you think is helpful without swallowing the politics .

we're getting closer maybe ...

yes ... I hope so.

there's a month I don't have ... any suggestions ?

do you read Greek ?

 

[cygnusx1]

another;

does the inner/outer call have any relation to man's creation in the image and toward the likeness of God ?

In Calvinism, do we retain or lose the image at the fall ?

we lose almost all the image of God after the Fall , which is replaced upon regeneration By Christ the image of the Invisible God.

 

[Thekla]

it is first and foremost a philosophy not an action.

Fatalists deny the need for secondary causation , all is God's will , fatalists see no difference between the will of the sinner in sin and God's will ...... they think God sins!







OK , but now we are literally swamped with translations , all based upon the latest , best , newest , most sanctioned slogans to flog em ..... do you use one translation ?








I am rather hesitant to say google it , after some here think googling a sentence is proof of academic qualification , until they are proved how stupid that is , but it may be a start , just read what you think is helpful without swallowing the politics .







yes ... I hope so.






do you read Greek ?

thanks, Cygnus for the help !
I just want to understand without silly bias in the way; just like I don't like anti-Orthodox bias distortions.

I use a new translation that restores distinctions, and refer back to the
Greek too. I don't know Greek -- but learned much from my grandfather (Greek, 'fluent in hellenistic and koine as well as modern Greek) , dad and Orthodox friends who know koine as well.
(and, like you, study )

thanks again -- work to go to, see ya !

 

[Thekla]

we lose almost all the image of God after the Fall , which is replaced upon regeneration By Christ the image of the Invisible God.

this helps, too !

 

[Jipsah]

Before the foundation of the world, God formulated a salvation plan.

Thus saith the Baptist Faith and Message. The Bible, however, says:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

God has both chosen and predestined the elect from the foundation of the world. Says so right there, doesn't it?
(You can insert the obligatory "that's what it says, but what it really means is..." flapdoodle here.)

Now where people differ is in two areas, one the scope of God's predestination, and two whether God chose foreseen individuals before the foundation of the world to be saved or to be condemned.

You don't believe that God foresees everything? Interesting.

Calvinists take this solid biblical truth and extrapolate it, they say God predestines everything, every circumstance and thought of every life.

Nope. Some may, just as some Baptists seem to believe that God isn't omniscient. Neither is representative of their group.

The other error of Calvinists, concerning the concept of predestination is to assert that we, the saved, are predestined to be saved as part of God's salvation plan.

Got it from the Bible. See above.

But what the Bible actually teaches

is all those, whoever they might turn out to be, who God puts into Christ, are predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ, to be called to a Holy calling of serving God, and to be adopted as Sons of God to an inheritance of eternal life.

Dang, you actually got that right! OK, let's wait for the other shoe to drop...

Note that all these predestined things only apply to those "in Christ" and not to those not yet in Christ.

Yep, there goes the shoe. The Scripture says that God has chosen those folks "from the foundation of the world". That's where your Free Willy doctrine goes aground.

When the Bible says that God chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world, what is being said is that God chose Christ and generically as the target group of His salvation plan, all those who God would put into Christ by grace through faith, whoever they turn out to be.

Yeah, that was the inevitable "That's what it says, but what it really means is..." response. But it doesn't work any better at supporting your arguments than repeating the same post a half dozen times, at least if you're trying to create the illusion that your doctrine is based on the Bible.

It is a false dichotomy to place predestination in opposition to free will choice. Both co-exist under God's dispensation.

Sure. It's our Free Will Choices that cause us to sin, and earn us condemnation.

As usual, what Calvinist do is extrapolate limited predestination affecting some specific individuals and some circumstances concerning groups of people

Somethking of which the Bible never speaks...

, and assert everything is predestined.

No one here has asserted any such thing. But if you enjoy beating strawmen, by all means feel free.

In the same way, Calvinists take passages that say God's knowledge and understanding is beyond what we can know, and assert this means God must know all things past, present and future, every thought and choice that will occur in this age.

That's called "omniscience", which is generally considered by most Christians to be an attribute of God. The "God may not know" position is one commonly held by hyper-Arminians known as "open theists".

Calvinist do not allow for God choosing to learn things

You're right, we don't. The idea is, well, goofy.

 

[cygnusx1]

here's a sight for sore eyes ;

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[Jipsah]

John 6:65 says, “And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you that no one can come to Me, unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

This verse has nothing to do with an inner called granted by the Father. The reason Jesus said believers couldn’t come to Him unless it has been granted him from the Father is that Jesus was sent by the Father. If the Father had not so loved the world that He sent His Son, no one could come to the Son. The disciples that did not accept that Jesus was the Son of God, walked away.

Really? Looks to me like you should have read the whole chapter. Lookee here:


37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Now you appear to be saying that of all that the Father sends our Lord He will lose some, but our Lord Himself says "of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing". But read just a bit further, and He reiterates:

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Note that He doesn't say that He may raise him up at the last day, or that He'll raise Him if if He proves agreeable, He simply says that He will raise him up at the last day.

You might wanna take a look at this one, as well:

John 10

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

No "may" or "might" there, but "shall". And no man, presumably the "sheep" themselves, is able to pluck them out of the Father's hand.

. He points out that we are the sum of our life experience, all that we know we learned from others, everything we have we received from others and so on.

Where'd he point that out, Van? It didn't make it to any of the translations I have here.

to take this passage further and say that it teaches we received the gift of faith (the inner call directly by the Holy Spirit) is an unnecessary and unsupported extrapolation.

Hey, you're the one who aduced the Scripture, and then saw fit to run in a novel meaning. I'l take it as it sits and leave the finagling to others who feel the need.

Acts 16:14 says, “One of those listening was a women named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth from the city of Thyatira, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul’s message.” How did God “open her heart”? The answer from the text is that because she was a worshiper of God, having listened to God and learned from God through the words of the prophets and having accepted the One who sent Him, she was enabled to accept Jesus.

Hey, you got one!

Simply put, if you reject God and His word, your heart will not be open to Jesus.

And all those who have not been regenerated by the Spirit of God do precisely that.

granting eternal life to believers who place there faith in His Son does not need to include irresistible grace.

But that's how it happens anyway.

In summary the steps are God sent His Son. We believe in our heart in His Son, we call upon the name of His Son, and then God accepts our faith and grants salvation by grace through faith.

So it's all up to what we do. Yep, that's the nub of Free Willyism. "God made it possible, but I did the necessary to make it happen."

In summary, while scripture can be found to support the concept of irresistible grace by inference

Our Lord's statements recorded in the Gospel of John are pretty explicit, looks to me like.

Irresistible grace is a false doctrine.

So you reckon that of those that God has sent Him, our Lord will in fact lose some. I reckon He was wrong then, huh?

scripture teaches

"Teaches" as opposed to "says", which allows one to run in their own doctrine, whatever it might be, as though Scripture actually supported it. Hany stuff, that. Allows one to make any sort of baloney at all sound pious and Scriptural.

 

[Jipsah]

The inner call cannot be found in scripture.

Especially if you're determined not to see it.