Our future sins are not already forgiven? Your thoughts?

[Clare73]

What do you think of the idea that when we are saved all our past sins are forgiven, but not our future sins? Thoughts?

The question cannot be answered in absence of the heart.

All are born condemned by the imputed sin of Adam (Ro 5:12-15, Ro 5:18),
by nature (with which we are born) objects of wrath (Eph 2:3),
until we are reborn of the Holy Spirit.

Through faith, the debt for all sin of the born again is cancelled.
The born again do sin, but the born-again heart repents of (turns from, gives up) that temporary sin, and
the blood of Jesus purifies him of all sin and unrighteousness (1Jn 1:8-10).

If we continue engaging in habitual sin, our hearts are not really turned to him, we are still holding on to our sinful will in some area.
We've got some spiritual homework to do. . .some of it may require recovery work.

 

[Rapture Bound]

What do you think of the idea that when we are saved all our past sins are forgiven, but not our future sins? Thoughts?

4 minute clip.

The present assurance of future forgiveness as it relates to a believer's justified status :

Another way to perceive your question would be, "Can believers possess a present assurance of a future entrance into Heaven? ... or will failure on the part of some to confess or repent of their future sins "sufficiently" disqualify them from their Heavenly inheritance [in which case will necessarily render the impossibility of any single believer from possessing the present assurance that their future sins will never disqualify them]?

Many of those who believe that some genuine believers will lose [forfeit] their salvation agree that the believer can [and must] have assurance that they are a child of God. However, they don't believe this assurance includes a "future tense assurance." That is to say, they claim that this assurance can only be a present possession - believers are yet in some type of "probationary standing" in which they may yet fail to inherit what God has promised them [concerning their Heavenly inheritance ... future tense]. And if what they are saying is true, they cannot even logically claim to possess assurance that they will "remain saved" come next week or even tomorrow for that matter!

As I see it, the crucial question to ponder in the midst of this is, "Were genuine believers merely placed into some sort of probationary period [the first of a "two-step process" necessary to make the "final cut"?]. Or, did Christ's blood shed at Calvary actually and decisively atone for, and end once for all, the question of the issue of God's wrath and condemnation as it relates to those who have been washed by the precious blood of Jesus? It is my strong conviction that the latter is the gospel truth... it truly is the Good News that God legitimately offers to all.

To illustrate my assertion - What if a friend of mine was to say to me, "Today I've received Jesus as my Lord and Savior! I've placed all my faith and hope in His atoning work for the forgiveness of my sins; it's like a ten ton weight has been lifted off of me!!"? ... Should I respond by saying, "Praise God for this amazing news, I hope and pray that you make it to Heaven someday, I hope that you realize that you are still on probation despite the fact that you have been washed and cleansed you by the blood of Jesus?" ... I certainly hope that wouldn't be your response [whether it be verbal or your internal mind-set].

Now, it may be true that I may wonder if he or she truly placed their faith in Christ's atoning work on their behalf, and have asked for forgiveness solely on that basis. And, I may anxiously await to see if their are any fruits or evidence of the Holy Spirit's indwelling presence subsequent to my friend's profession of faith. But once again, the question revolves full circle back to question of genuineness. Was that person's faith truly "saving", was their faith directed, and placed upon the proper object of faith?... that being Christ's atoning work and His righteousness alone apart from anything that they can offer.

The real question at hand here is NOT, "will any person who has been justified before God lose or forfeit that position?"...but rather, "did that person ever experience the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit and a justified standing before God?"

 

[FutureAndAHope]

I'm a little confused by your statement. Are you implying that there will be some blood-bought believers who will ultimately be cast into the Lake of Fire?

Yes. It can happen.

2Pe 3:17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;

Heb 6:4-8 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

Heb 3:12-14 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called "TODAY," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,

Basically, sin has a hardening, blinding effect, it causes us to become progressively blinded to the truth. If we persist in willful deliberate sins, we become enslaved to blindness and can walk away from Christ.

Rom 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

 

[zoidar]

Yes. It can happen.

2Pe 3:17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;

Heb 6:4-8 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

Heb 3:12-14 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called "TODAY," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,

Basically, sin has a hardening, blinding effect, it causes us to become progressively blinded to the truth. If we persist in willful deliberate sins, we become enslaved to blindness and can walk away from Christ.

Rom 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

It's such a sad thing. But if it's true it's true.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

It's such a sad thing. But if it's true it's true.

2Th 2:9-12 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Yes, it is not just the label that saves us, we still need to persist in not giving into the flesh.

Heb 12:14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:

 

[doughtz]

I sure hope it is future sins, too! I don't know about you, but I don't know 100% of the time when I have sinned. So... I think most of humanity is in trouble if we are not forgiven of future sins.

 

[bling]

Good question. I think they need to ask for forgiveness. We must all be willing to forgive.

I was not talking about them, but you. I would sure like to be forgiven before I even asked, how about you?

 

[zoidar]

I was not talking about them, but you. I would sure like to be forgiven before I even asked, how about you?

Sure I would.

 

[Rapture Bound]

Yes. It can happen.

2Pe 3:17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;

Heb 6:4-8 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

Heb 3:12-14 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called "TODAY," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,

Basically, sin has a hardening, blinding effect, it causes us to become progressively blinded to the truth. If we persist in willful deliberate sins, we become enslaved to blindness and can walk away from Christ.

Rom 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Here's my take on Hebrews 6:4-8 :

From my OJAJ, Molinist standpoint, Hebrews 6 was addressed to Jewish Christians [all those who claimed to place their faith in their true Messiah alone as the only sacrifice for sin]. Therefore, this group includes both genuine and professing followers of Christ ... directly aimed at the genuine, and indirectly applied to the nominal.

It appears that for various reasons, such as avoiding persecution, or temptation to join a Jewish [Judaizing] sect; they were in danger of making a tragic choice that carried a horrendous eternal consequence with it... if they should fall away, there would be no opportunity for repentance [Hebrews 6:6]..."For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins" [Hebrews 10:26] - What is that willful sin? ... the denial that Jesus Christ is the only acceptable sacrifice for their sin(s) [Hebrews 9:26].

"The righteousness which is of God" can only be obtained by virtue of being in 'union with Christ' [being found 'in him']. This righteousness originates from God through the faith[fullness] of Christ, and is imputed to all those who do not trust in their righteousness (or moral acts) in order for their justification, but instead have believed in Christ's. 2 Corinthians 5:21,"For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."

My viewpoint differs from the Calvinist position in that those of the Calvinist/Reformed position would say that this chapter is exclusively written to those who were merely professing followers of Christ. It is also unlike the Arminian view which claims that not only was Hebrews 6 directed at true believers, but some of them will actually apostatize [forfeit their salvation].

The hypothetical aspect of the warnings [expressed by the Molinist in the "can/won't model of perseverance"] contained in this chapter is clearly seen in the "if" of Hebrews 6:6 ... "if they shall fall away." Looking through the lens of this OJAJ Molinist, this is not to say that the consequence for failure to heed the warning isn't real, but rather, no true believer will actually fail to take heed. So many fail to understand the purpose of warning passages such as this; they are one of the many means that God uses to preserve his elect.

True believers will rightly fear the warning, they will acknowledge, and reason within themselves that God would be just in stripping them of the priceless free gift of eternal life that they had received; they will reflect upon His love for them, and the horrendous and painful means that their Messiah endured in order to purchase that gift. They will shudder and cringe at the very thought of putting their precious Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to "open shame" [verse 6 ] ... "But beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak." [Hebrews 6:9].

 

[Rapture Bound]

I sure hope it is future sins, too! I don't know about you, but I don't know 100% of the time when I have sinned. So... I think most of humanity is in trouble if we are not forgiven of future sins.

Absolutely! Also, many times what one Christian defines as sin ... another doesn't. And there are so many other absurdities that are all tied into future [judicial] forgiveness being contingent upon a believer's confession & repentance of sin [again, here I'm referring exclusively to a believer's justified status]. For example, how much Godly sorrow, or what degree of actual forsaking of a particular sin is required to "make the cut" for "team Heaven"?... or what if we forget to confess one of the sins we have committed today, yesterday, or any day for that matter? Does God then simply "grade on the curve?", does He just overlook them and say to Himself, "well, close enough, confessing 16 out of 26 sins today isn't really that bad compared to some of the others?"

God forbid that I would downplay the seriousness and value of the role of confession and repentance in salvation. The sole reason I stated what I have, is simply to illustrate the absurdity of believing that our continued justified standing before God depends upon our performance rather than the only true grounding for it ... Christ's perfect life lived in our place, commonly referred to as "The Great Exchange". Therein lies the very heart of the gospel, Christ took on himself the punishment of our sin, and in exchange, God reckoned to our account the perfect righteousness of his Son. All those who have genuinely been regenerated by the Holy Spirit will pursue a close relationship with their God which entails the implementation of confession and repentance of their sins [however imperfect that it may be] ... not to acquire a [future tense] justified standing before God ... but is the inevitable result of having already been justified [past tense] in the eyes of God.

 

[zoidar]

I sure hope it is future sins, too! I don't know about you, but I don't know 100% of the time when I have sinned. So... I think most of humanity is in trouble if we are not forgiven of future sins.

That is true. I though think that sometimes we have gone too far in our ideas about sin. I heard this story being told of how it is to be a Christian.

"This guy was going to Lords supper for forgiveness of his sins. He was forgiven all his sins as he received the bread and wine. But before he got back to his seat he had sinned again. That's how it is with sin!"

I think the story is showing something being wrong with our thinking. It's giving us an excuse to sin, saying it's impossible to go a day or even a minute without sinning. That is not true. We have set the bar for sin so high that it's impossible to avoid "sinning". The problem is that this is giving the opposite effect than we should be striving for. Instead of avoiding sin, we accept sin. I don't know, but I think it is an effect of the Reformation and the teaching of law and gospel by the Reformers.

 

[Lost Witness]

Grace covers the sins we're ignorant of,
For everything else we've got prayer,
Pray without ceasing.

 

[ozso]

In my opinion salvation is about being saved from sin right now in the present. We're given the Holy Spirit to help us strive towards that so we can please and serve God. Salvation is about overcoming sin now, not just getting a ticket to heaven. Why would someone want to go to a place that's all about serving the will of God for eternity, if they have no present interest in doing so?

 

[Fervent]

Future from what, exactly? When we first pray for forgiveness? When we are baptized? Future from some arbitary point in our life? When, exactly, are we "saved" as a past-tense?

 

[zoidar]

Future from what, exactly? When we first pray for forgiveness? When we are baptized? Future from some arbitary point in our life? When, exactly, are we "saved" as a past-tense?

We were saved when we received the Holy Spirit. Past-tense.

 

[Fervent]

We were saved when we received the Holy Spirit. Past-tense.

Which is when, exactly?

 

[zoidar]

Which is when, exactly?

I can't tell you when you received His Spirit. I did 2010-06-21 in prayer after work.

 

[Oneofhope]

What do you think of the idea that when we are saved all our past sins are forgiven, but not our future sins? Thoughts?

4 minute clip.

I would think that if Christ didn't die for my future sin, then His torture and death on the cross were not enough. The good news is, is that they were enough. Paul references this very fact below:

Galatians 6:12 NLT - 12 "Those who are trying to force you to be circumcised want to look good to others. They don't want to be persecuted for teaching that the cross of Christ alone can save."

 

[Aussie Pete]

I think it depends on what you think was accomplished by the atonement. Was every sin forgiven through the atonement, or is forgiveness of every sin available through the atonenent. It's not that I say you are wrong though.

The view David Bercot (the guy talking in the clip) is promoting is that Christ's sacrifice forgives your sins as you repent and being saved (since you have no future sins at that moment, those sins can't have been forgiven). Then if you sin after being saved those sins are not already forgiven, though Christ is sacrificed for those sins also. So you need to repent of those new sins to receive forgiveness for them as well.

Again, I'm not saying he is right, just trying to explain his view.

Yes, I am familiar with Bercot's point of view. It is not, in my understanding, biblical. We have, present tense. forgiveness of sins. If I have a billion dollars in the bank, I can pay all my bills on time without any trouble. Lord Jesus has already paid the price for all mankind for all time.

What we need when/if we sin, is to be cleansed. The conscience is defiled by sin but the blood cleanses it. (Hebrews 9:14). My argument is that if our sins are not already forgiven, we would never be sure of our standing before God. If we sinned and failed to confess, would we appear in heaven? I say that we are already in heaven. (Ephesians 2:6) Sin breaks fellowship with God. It does not change our relationship.

I had a dream once that helped me understand this. I was in a queue at an old fashioned ticket office, maybe a railway station. I had a ticket in my hand which was a debt that I owed. I gave the ticket to the man who was at the counter. He stamped it and gave it back to me. The stamp said "paid". And that's how I see it.

 

[Rapture Bound]

What do you think of the idea that when we are saved all our past sins are forgiven, but not our future sins? Thoughts?

4 minute clip.

In my opinion, the foremost single passage in scripture presenting overwhelming evidence that all of a believers future sins have been covered at the moment of their regeneration is found in Hebrews 10:14. Again, it's necessary to make it clear that what I'm specifically addressing here is future sin as it relates to a believer's justified standing before God.

Hebrews 10:14, "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." [KJV].

Hebrews 10 :14 - Greek interlinear :

"By one [mia] for [gar] offering [prosphora] He has perfected [teteleiōken] for all time [eis to diēnekes] those [tous] being sanctified [hagiazomenous]."

"He has perfected" - root - Strong's #5048. teleioó
teleioó: to bring to an end, to complete, perfect
Original Word: τελειόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: teleioó
Phonetic Spelling: (tel-i-o'-o)
Definition: to bring to an end, to complete, perfect
Usage: (a) as a course, a race, or the like: I complete, finish (b) as of time or prediction: I accomplish, (c) I make perfect; pass: I am perfected.

"being sanctified" - root - Strong's #37. hagiazó
hagiazó: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Original Word: ἁγιάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hagiazó
Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-ad'-zo)
Definition: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Usage: I make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify.


Generally speaking, those of the LOS [Loss Of Salvation or "Loss of Justification"] camp emphasize the aspect of the singularity of Christ's sacrifice [i.e. - it's completeness and sufficiency for the forgiveness and redemption of humanity throughout all of history] ... "For by one offering." That is, Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins [forever abolishing the need of it's repetition, as well as the Old Covenant sacrificial system]. It was Christ's singular act of atonement that provided a perfect and acceptable sacrifice which alone could satisfy God's holy righteousness and justice].

On the other hand, the opposing camp, the OJAS ["Once Justified, Always Justified"] or OASAAS ["Once Actually Saved, Always Actually Saved"] advocates by and large focus upon the resulting effect of Christ's singular sacrifice upon those who have placed their faith in it's efficacy and sufficiency to obtain their right-standing before God ... "he hath perfected for ever [for all time] them that are sanctified [those being sanctified]." To state it in a slightly different manner for further clarity ... "those being sanctified" - all those who, from age to age, through faith receive as their own that which has been procured for all men.

Although it is true that we do not have an "either/or", but rather a "both/and" scenario in view here [each camp representing one-half of the dual truths declared in Hebrews 10:14], it appears to me that there is compelling evidence contained within Hebrews 10:14 which supports the OJAJ position.

A critical question that needs to be addressed here is the following : "Should we view the sanctification spoken of here ["those being sanctified"] in a positional or progressive sense?"

Although it certainly appears to me that positional sanctification is in view here, a person's perspective on this issue actually matters little as it pertains to the question of the forgiveness of a regenerated person's future sin [as I will attempt to demonstrate by the following truth claims].

(1) A person cannot be progressively sanctified unless he/she has already been positionally sanctified [or set apart by God and considered to be holy in His eyes].

post #124 - page 7 < Can a genuine, blood-bought, regenerated believer forfeit their salvation? >

(2) A person cannot be sanctified in either a positional or progressive sense without also experiencing a justified status before God. [1 Corinthians 6:11].

(3) All those who have been justified will also be glorified [in both it's "already" and "not yet" dimensions]. Although glorification is viewed as including a present [continous] sanctifying/transformational work of the Holy Spirit operating in the lives of believers, there is also a future aspect attached to it ... the reception of a glorified body - a resurrection body in Heaven.

post #92 - page 5 < Can a genuine, blood-bought, regenerated believer forfeit their salvation? >

post #103 - page 6 < Can a genuine, blood-bought, regenerated believer forfeit their salvation? >

Therefore, positional and progressive sanctification, as well as the [ultimate] redemption of the body, are states that will be actualized in all of those ["from age to age"] who experience a justified status before God by way of the new birth ... "For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his." - Romans 6:5 [English Standard Version].