Other people's Depression

[Shattered-Reflections]

I'd really prefer to get advice from those who have dealt with depression first hand or professionally. Not to be rude, but I don't want "good ideas" but what's actually true and what actually works.

I have a brother who's dealing with a lot and is depressed. About a month ago he was suicidal and went to a psychologist who really talked with him and gave him medication to deal with the depression and anxiety. He came home to get back on his feet, which at first I was very unhappy to hear but he was a completely different person on the medication. I had never seen him so calm, focused, and nice. He wasn't blowing up at every little thing. He said he would get it together for his daughter by cutting out the bad stuff, getting help, and getting his life in order.

Everything was good this past month and him living at home was perfectly fine. But he hasn't been seeing a therapist much and in the last week he stopped taking the medication. He says he doesn't need it, he doesn't see the difference, and doesn't want to take it (though he has given no reason except, medication = bad, not that he feels off or anything). This would be fine but he's gone back to exploding, yelling, and tearing things up again as well as becoming antisocial and lost complete focus on his work. Obviously it did make a difference. The "medication = bad" bit doesn't make sense either because this week he overused his sleeping medication and has overdone drugs and alcohol right before be came home and in the past. Yet his excuse for not taking antidepressant is it's bad for him??

In the last day or so he's gotten back into his old ways of discrediting every option that is not what he wants. He won't listen to reason or solutions. He was fine with us going on vacation when he was on the anti-depressant, but now he's not okay. He doesn't want to come with us, but he doesn't want us to leave (this isn't a vacation we can rescheduled either). He's also gone back to trying to get my parents to spend money on him (that they don't have) because he's unhappy and it's his way or nothing. My mother told him how she felt about this "blackmail" like treatment (her words, not mine) and what he wants isn't going to happen right now. They haven't paid off all the airfare and doctors visits from the last two months. She has talked to him about the medication, but she told me she doesn't want to force him to take medication. She also doesn't want to corner him with ultimatums, because that could easily push him off the edge. But as we talked, she did say she may tell him, "if you tear up the house, there will be no help going anywhere".

My mother thinks it's possible he may just up and leave (which is fine), but I have my doubts that he will. This isn't the first time I've heard he hated being somewhere, but never left on his own. Whether it's the depression or not, he uses manipulation all the time for years on my parents. So if my parents don't give in we are likely stuck with all the consequences of his actions -- but I'm not the only one fed up with his behavior now. However unless he starts taking the medication again I don't see things getting better nor how we can even reason with him. I just see him sitting in his mess until he gets his way.

My question is... what's the best way to help him? To help him see that, "YES, the medication makes an astronomical difference!!". My mother has talked to him, but I haven't. I've stayed away from him since he started acting up. Honestly I'm afraid of him, I'm not close to him, I don't want him yelling at me because he doesn't like what he hears, nor do I want to end up yelling at him because he's being blind and irrational. I don't feel like talking will make a difference. But I also live here and he's staying in my office. As he is now, if I start taking my stuff out of the office so he can't destroy it anymore, like I'm packing/leaving, he will likely get upset. Abandonment is a sore spot. He has the whole family up against a wall and we're all miserable and stressed.

Should I just not care about his reaction and get my stuff? Is there nothing we can do, if he doesn't want to do it? Will ultimatums really push him into suicide or is that the only way to get him to realize this is serious? What's the best way to go about setting boundaries for an adult who's dealing with depression, loss, physical illness, etc.

If worse comes to worse, I can always move out even if that means buying a tiny building and living in there, but I'm not just asking for myself but for my mother also.

I know this is a long read, so thank you for reading and thank you for any consideration you put into this.

 

[Goodbook]

He has to want to take it.
Force feeding him medication won't work. He has to feel like he's in control of it.

I know because I used to be on it. It was AWFUL. It felt like, people felt like I was only 'normal' if I was on drugs. There are side effects that medication has that people don't see unless they take it themselves. You have to understand this, he is not just being difficult. Symptoms can be dampened, but the underlying cause still remains.

The benefits of medication are not just so YOU can have a better life. He has to see how it can benefit him. Nobody likes taking medication and feeling dependent on it. But just encourage him that the medicine will help him get better, but it will take time. He will not need to be on it for the rest of his life. That is what people who are depressed fear.

I would also look into what nutrition he is getting - not eating junk food, sugary food, etc. Make sure he eats good protein based meals, especially for breakfast. Cook his favourite foods and make him feel loved. It's hard enough dealing with this and then being accused of being emotionally manipulative. There is something else going on, a spiritual battle. Some of us cannot grow until we learn how to deal with the enemy. You need to find out what the enemy is trying to do and how to effectively battle it. Pray for him. Is he christian? Then use scripture..that is the most powerful weapon anyone can use against depression.

 

[Shattered-Reflections]

Thank for your reply Goodbook If I come off rude or sound antagonistic towards you, please know I'm not and I really appreciate your input. I have elaborated more of the situation for you or anyone who may be reading. I'm trying not to write a novel, but there's like years, even decades of history here.

He has to want to take it.
Force feeding him medication won't work. He has to feel like he's in control of it.

I know because I used to be on it. It was AWFUL. It felt like, people felt like I was only 'normal' if I was on drugs. There are side effects that medication has that people don't see unless they take it themselves. You have to understand this, he is not just being difficult. Symptoms can be dampened, but the underlying cause still remains.

I agree. And thank you for that perspective. And I can see how that could be deeming and how he should been established that it's just a temporary help.

I understand, I don't like taking medication myself and have had mild to life threatening side effects. He's always been honest if something has bad effects or makes him feel off, but he hasn't mentioned them.

I'm actually fairly anti-medicine, I don't believe emotional, psychological, or spiritual problems should be fixed with chemicals. I don't think one should take medication unless necessary. So I do understand the problems still remain and that's why it's so important that he keeps seeing a therapist until he has learned to deal with the root of his issues and learn better ways to deal with problems. I wouldn't even advocate medication, but I have seen that it does help him. Without it he's either withdrawn, lashing out, or shutting down. It's hard to get the help you need when you're in that frame of mind. He's been so closed to getting help.

The benefits of medication are not just so YOU can have a better life. He has to see how it can benefit him. Nobody likes taking medication and feeling dependent on it. But just encourage him that the medicine will help him get better, but it will take time. He will not need to be on it for the rest of his life. That is what people who are depressed fear.

Thank you. Yeah, it's definitely not just about us, if it was, I could just walk away. He is so much more able to attain his goals when he was on his medication. So I guess that's where we need to help encourage him in.

And thank you for expressing that fear. Could that fear still exist even if he's okay with being dependent on drugs or alcohol? Does simply being an "antidepressant" make it more deeming psychologically? This would make a lot more sense why he doesn't want to be on the medication, because he has a lot of excuses without a concrete reason.

I would also look into what nutrition he is getting - not eating junk food, sugary food, etc. Make sure he eats good protein based meals, especially for breakfast. Cook his favourite foods and make him feel loved. It's hard enough dealing with this and then being accused of being emotionally manipulative. There is something else going on, a spiritual battle. Some of us cannot grow until we learn how to deal with the enemy. You need to find out what the enemy is trying to do and how to effectively battle it. Pray for him. Is he christian? Then use scripture..that is the most powerful weapon anyone can use against depression.

Everyone is on different schedules or working so we don't always eat together. But we do try to cook good meals when we can or eat with extended family. He was actually cooking a lot of the meals because he loves doing that. As far as I know he does get protein and a lot of it, but he also eats more processed junk when he's get really depressed. We do our best to enable him to go biking with a group and other things too.

I'm not saying it should be shoved in his face, but he is manipulative among other things. I'm done being in denial about how abusive he is, so forgive me if I sound harsh I just mean to be real. He was that way with us and with his wife and he continues to cause his own grief because he cannot maintain relationships. But I'm not saying he's trying to be malicious or that he has total control or he is able to see past his own pain, it does stem from deeper problems (though some of it is physical too). Those problem are what need to be dealt with, not symptoms. Problems he has not been able to work through with or without my parents help. Those problems just keep growing because they are never resolved. He really needs to see a therapist and I'm just hoping he won't throw that out the window too because of his negative mind set. Being on the medication will help him be able to go out the door and get the help he needs to be happy and independent.

He isn't a Christian and is antagonistic about religion. So that isn't something he's open to. But I would say, yes a huge part of his problem is a spiritual one. I'm sure he's angry with God and/or religion. But that's a shut-down subject for him.

 

[Odetta]

I'm bipolar, with a strong emphasis on the depressive side. And yes, there isn't much you can do to force him to take medication. For me, I went through a phase where I felt better on meds - so much better, I wondered if I didn't need them after all. I was hit or miss taking them for a while and the side effects of that were not great. Once I got into a routine, it was much better. But the biggest side effect was cognitive fogginess, which impacted my ability to get things done correctly and to remember things, both at work and at home. That went away after a couple of years on medication. And I got off easy - many people have worse side effects, depending on the medication.

In terms of dealing with his manipulation, well it sounds like he is an adult. I have children with issues and they try to be manipulative, but I have to continue to parent them. With an adult, I have the option of distancing myself (had to do that with a relative for a while). It's hard to contemplate when it's someone you love and want to see better. But you have every right to protect your stuff in your office, even if moving it causes him stress. If you don't set firm (also loving, but definitely firm) boundaries, he will blow through them. And letting it happen is enabling.

 

[Goodbook]

As far as therapy goes..I'm not sure how much that would help as he isn't christian and it is very expensive if you go to a secular counsellor/psychiatrist.

However, there are some biblical counsellors who counsel people even if they aren't christian and are very experienced at that, like they would ask to pray for your brother, but even if he didn't want that, they might still give him good advice and pray for him outside of the counselling session. It is important that he can express his feelings/anger/rage in a healthy way..writing in a journal can be good, or because he's male, going out for a run or something.

I hope that helps, I know it's tough for you. When I was going through it, I was quite aware of how much a burden it was for everyone else as well. But that huge burden needs to go to Jesus. Pray that he will send you helps and help ease the burden(s).

 

[Quasicentennial]

With this emotional terrorist that is depression, you wonder where does Jesus fit in your life? Is Jesus like a quick-fix headache pill for at least a long while, then you have to take it again if it comes back like a boomerang?
Is Satan like a headache and Jesus is like the curable pill that becomes a lifetime sportmanship between Satan versus Jesus phenomenon did..do...do do do (funny tune there folks)?
I would say basically communicate with each other about the negative issues and somehow say some humorous nonsense to stamp out the painful memory experiences that cause depression or the Twilight Zone as I would call it:.
We all know as Christians that Jesus is our spiritual and physical healer through constant prayer, singing songs of worship, attending a church to see how our combined faith in Jesus as a herd of sheep, or should I say, as a group congress..ah hang on a sec...I mean, congregation - that's it yeah, should feel the presence of Jesus as we see and listen to the pastor say what's on his/her mind.:
As for me, I have a home entertainment system that's almost similar to something like a tropical island electronic paradise with a 60 inch 3D TV, a home theater receiver 5.1 satellite speaker system, a 3D bluray 500GB HDD digital recorder and a Xbox 360 videogame console - now that's entertainment, for now anyway until Jesus returns in his Second Coming, hopefully while we are still alive:.
In Jesus Name, I pray for Christ's miraculous healing to be permanently ...ticklish..0opsy daisy.;'*';.

 

[Goodbook]

Yes, humour is important. Help him see the lighter side of life.
I was reading today how Nehemiah was praying and he was so downcast because he was just so worried about all the children of Israel and getting quite depressed about it and the whole situation. It may be your brother is taking on a burden that isn't really his at all. If he knew that Jesus could take that burden from him, he would be much happier. Jesus is our hope and salvation after all.

You need to pray against whatever is stopping him from coming to Jesus.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

What I would do is try to find out as much of what is actually going on and the medical symptoms and the medication withdrawl and sideeffects.

Is he diagnosed with Depression? Is he diagnosed with anything else? What medicine did he take? Are there side effects? Are there serious withdrawl symptoms if the medication is missed?

Withdrawl symptoms from medication can be excruciating. Not only are your original symptoms coming back, but your body has withdrawl symptoms. Serious ones.

Maybe he had side effects from taking the medication? Like a previous poster said the meds help in a respect, but their are side effects that are often very real. My medication needs to come down slowly off of over 5 weeks. Very slowly. Some don't like it if they feel dizzy, or cannot focus or if it makes them feel panicky.

About the manipulation, I don't know. I don't have much experience with that.

If you find/see his medication bottle, look at the drug name and dose and how many times and pills per day. Go to Webmd or another site that talks about that drug. What conditions it treats. Possible side effects ect.

 

[znr]

Pray pray pray. Then pray more. Afterword, pray again.

Get wisdom from God and ask him what to do.

Are YOU okay and safe? That matters.

 

[Autumnleaf]

Tell him nobody wants to be around him when he acts up and that when he takes his medicine he seems to be better to be around. Be honest. If he threatens to kill himself call the police every time and have him taken away for 24 hour suicide watch. Make it not fun for him.

People who act out, be depressed, be happy or be sad are doing so because its the path of least resistance. If the only way he knows to get attention is to act up then he will make drama. If you make it so the drama causes problems he doesn't want to deal with then he will have to learn another way to get attention... and if he is seriously suicidal you want him on suicide watch anyways for his own good.

It sort of defuses the situation sometimes when you tell someone you see what they are doing and its annoying. Its like they can see themselves from your perspective and they look dumb and they don't like looking that way so they stop. They may escalate just to call your bluff, but if you remain unperturbed and mildly annoyed your frame of reality might trump theirs.

Of course I don't know you or him. I only know people I've known who I've dealt with.

 

[Shattered-Reflections]

Thanks for the posts everyone.

My brother choose to get more antidepressant on his own. I can only pray he'll actually take care while my family is away...

Are YOU okay and safe? That matters.

Aside from moving out, there's no much I can do about that. My anxiety has been through the roof, but my managing the best I can. My mother has helped a little by allowing me to put my stuff in a trailer, I just don't know if I'll have the time to do that.

 

[aiki]

My question is... what's the best way to help him? To help him see that, "YES, the medication makes an astronomical difference!!".

To all of you, yes. But to the one taking the medication, it can seem like taking the medication resolves one problem by creating another. Anti-depressants don't cure depression, they merely mask the behavioral/emotional issues that arise from it. And the trade-off when taking anti-depressants is that one feels "foggy" or "fuzzy" or "muted" in their mind, which can be quite unpleasant.

My mother has talked to him, but I haven't. I've stayed away from him since he started acting up. Honestly I'm afraid of him, I'm not close to him, I don't want him yelling at me because he doesn't like what he hears, nor do I want to end up yelling at him because he's being blind and irrational. I don't feel like talking will make a difference.

At this point, I don't think it will. He's had a long time to get to the place he's presently at. His thought-habits and emotional ruts are well-established. What he needs in order to change are consequences. His stormy conduct is manipulative and so long as it achieves its ends with all of you, it will continue. Until he sees that his manipulation is no longer working, he won't feel compelled to find a different way to interact with his family.

But I also live here and he's staying in my office. As he is now, if I start taking my stuff out of the office so he can't destroy it anymore, like I'm packing/leaving, he will likely get upset. Abandonment is a sore spot. He has the whole family up against a wall and we're all miserable and stressed.

That's exactly where he wants all of you. I think he's motivated heavily by fear. People who manipulate and control others in the way your brother is are often pathologically afraid.

Should I just not care about his reaction and get my stuff?

Yup.

Is there nothing we can do, if he doesn't want to do it?

Pretty much. You can't control him and you shouldn't let him control you.

Will ultimatums really push him into suicide or is that the only way to get him to realize this is serious?

If your brother has had a long time to establish and develop his manipulative tactics, he may be at quite a loss as to how to deal with you when you put your foot down. Escalation is probably the route he'll go. Expect that he'll test you to see how resolute you are. Will he go so far as suicide? Maybe. But that is his choice. Don't let him put the blame on you for his choice of reaction to your boundaries. You do nothing wrong in refusing to be manipulated.

What's the best way to go about setting boundaries for an adult who's dealing with depression, loss, physical illness, etc.

Set your boundaries unwaveringly but also with love, and grace, and patience. Give your brother clear positive alternatives to manipulation in dealing with you. Be prepared to help him work out exactly how to interact with you without his usual histrionics.

If worse comes to worse, I can always move out even if that means buying a tiny building and living in there, but I'm not just asking for myself but for my mother also.

Do you think it would be a kindness to your mother to leave her to deal with your brother alone?

Selah.