OSAS made simple

[Dave L]

About most everything.

If you think you can be lost, how can you have saving faith? You need to check this out.

 

[Dave L]

They are either one or the other. They can't be both.

But you see them as believers which they are not as far as Christ is concerned.

 

[Francis Drake]

“For as by one man’s disobedience many were made (constituted) sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made (constituted) righteous.” Romans 5:19 (KJV 1900)

What most do not understand is that Christ saves believers through His shed blood and his imputed righteousness. Our works are wood, hay, and stubble that cannot save. If improved on, they merit a better resurrection. But even then, believers remain saved by Christ’s imputed righteousness, even if all their petty works are destroyed by fire.

“For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.” 1 Corinthians 3:11–15 (KJV 1900)

It annoys me when I have to agree with you Dave, I'll have to look closer to see if there's any difference in the details! Lol

 

[renniks]

If you think you can be lost, how can you have saving faith? You need to check this out.

Honestly the question does not make any sense to me.

 

[Dave L]

Honestly the question does not make any sense to me.

That's a big problem for many. But you cannot experience saving faith if you think you can be lost. I have saving faith and know the difference.

 

[d taylor]

Actual Jesus shows how simple it is, that is first to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life then Jesus also promises that a believer can never lose their free gift.

but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”

underline emphasis mine.

 

[fhansen]

“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9 (KJV 1900)

This speaks of Christ's imputed righteousness. If you apostatize you were one of those who act like a Christian who Christ tells to depart, "I never knew you"

I really dislike this novel “theology”. The reason a believer doesn’t sin isn’t because he’s now a pretend saint; it’s because he’s been forgiven and made a new creation; righteousness, primarily love, being poured into his heart (Rom 5:5). The more we know and love God, the more that sin is excluded, those items being mutually exclusive. Now we’re expected to continue to walk in that light, in that love, as He does, as we remain in Him. And that’s a daily choice even as He’ll also give us the grace to sustain it.

A simple fact is if you think you can lose your salvation, you cannot have faith that God saved you.

But the saved are saved and cannot perish. You cannot have saving faith if you think you can be lost.

Oh, so it depends on us-and what we resolve to think. There will be those who never thought they pleased the Lord at all but did, based on what they did, “for the least of these” (Matt 25), while others will think they’re saved while they’re not (Matt 7). Love is what defines a true believer.

 

[Dave L]

I really dislike this novel “theology”. The reason a believer doesn’t sin isn’t because he’s now a pretend saint; it’s because he’s been forgiven and made a new creation; righteousness, primarily love, being poured into his heart (Rom 5:5). The more we know and love God, the more that sin is excluded, those items being mutually exclusive. Now we’re expected to continue to walk in that light, in that love, as He does, as we remain in Him. And that’s a daily choice even as He’ll also give us the grace to sustain it.

Oh, so it depends on us-and what we resolve to think. There will be those who never thought they pleased the Lord at all but did, based on what they did, “for the least of these” (Matt 25), while others will think they’re saved while they’re not (Matt 7). Love is what defines a true believer.

The thing is, saving faith tells you you are saved. Human faith only hopes for salvation.

 

[fhansen]

The thing is, saving faith tells you you are saved. Human faith only hopes for salvation.

Faith is faith. We can either value and act upon it, or fail to do so at any point along the journey.

 

[Dave L]

Faith is faith. We can either value and act upon it, or fail to do so at any point along the journey.

No, human faith buys used cars with confidence. Holy Spirit Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

 

[fhansen]

No, human faith buys used cars with confidence. Holy Spirit Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

The discussion is about faith in God and salvation, not cars. And as in any relationship, we can become unfaithful, we can fail to remain in Him IOW.

 

[Dave L]

The discussion is about faith in God, not cars. And as in any relationship, we can become unfaithful, we can fail to remain in Him IOW.

But used-car faith cannot save. And you think there is only that kind of faith.

 

[fhansen]

But used-car faith cannot save. And you think there is only that kind of faith.

Oh, used-car faith. You brought that up, not me. There’s only one kind of faith in God, and it can still be forfeited, dismissed, valued like a jalopy.

 

[Dave L]

Oh, used-car faith. You brought that up, not me. There’s only one kind of faith in God, and it can be forfeited, dismissed, valued like a jalopy.

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” Galatians 5:22 (KJV 1900)

This means God must save you in the Reformed manner before you can have faith.

 

[fhansen]

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” Galatians 5:22 (KJV 1900)

This means God must save you in the Reformed manner before you can have faith.

It’s not either/or, but both/and. Faith, as with any virtue, grows as it’s expressed. So faith, as a gift of God but also a human choice, is idle, fruitless, until we accept and profess and act upon it. Related to this are Mark 5:34 and Mark 9:24
“He said to her, “Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be freed from your suffering.”

“Immediately the boy’s father exclaimed, “I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief!”

 

[Butch5]

“For as by one man’s disobedience many were made (constituted) sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made (constituted) righteous.” Romans 5:19 (KJV 1900)

What most do not understand is that Christ saves believers through His shed blood and his imputed righteousness. Our works are wood, hay, and stubble that cannot save. If improved on, they merit a better resurrection. But even then, believers remain saved by Christ’s imputed righteousness, even if all their petty works are destroyed by fire.

“For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.” 1 Corinthians 3:11–15 (KJV 1900)

How does any of this deal with OSAS?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Unless one has apostisize. The sin "until death" is not forgiven.
1 John
16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

1 John 5:16 doesn't refer to eternal death but God's discipline which includes physical death. We this example in Ananias and Saphira in Acts 5, and the incestuous man in 1 Cor 5. And the entire first generation of Israelites during the 40 year march through desert (minus Josua and Caleb) per 1 Cor 10:1-11.

Jesus taught in John 5:24 that those who believe (present tense) have (or possess, also in the present tense) eternal life. So this shows that the gift of eternal life is given WHEN a person believes savingly in Christ. iow, from the MOMENT one believes, they possess eternal life.

Then, in John 10:28, Jesus said recipients of eternal life (see Jn 5:24) SHALL NEVER PERISH.

So it is very clear that from the MOMENT of saving faith in Christ, the person possesses eternal life and they shall never perish.

I know this really bothers Arminian type thinking. However, let's consider 2 more verses that support eternal security.

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

We find the exact same words in both verses; "have not believed". Since there is no time frame for "not believing", it is obvious that the words mean "have NEVER believed".

So these 2 verses say clearly that condemnation (eternal) is for those who NEVER believed.

Therefore, once a person HAS believed, they HAVE eternal life and SHALL NEVER PERISH.

 

[corinth77777]

A simple fact is if you think you can lose your salvation, you cannot have faith that God saved you.

According to?

 

[corinth77777]

A simple fact is if you think you can lose your salvation, you cannot have faith that God saved you.

...
Does anyone lose Christ?
You may know Him but does He know you?

The people did not loose the ark[their deliverer] who died in the flood, but they failed to stay near it...and when the flood came they were not in a place to get in to be saved by it. What they lost is being delivered (saved) by their salvation (the ark)

After all Christ is everyone's salvation that will believe in Him.....but if you stop believing will you be saved?

If those people who were being saved in the ark got out and remained out...would they have not perished with the rest?

 

[corinth77777]

1 John 5:16 doesn't refer to eternal death but God's discipline which includes physical death. We this example in Ananias and Saphira in Acts 5, and the incestuous man in 1 Cor 5. And the entire first generation of Israelites during the 40 year march through desert (minus Josua and Caleb) per 1 Cor 10:1-11.

Jesus taught in John 5:24 that those who believe (present tense) have (or possess, also in the present tense) eternal life. So this shows that the gift of eternal life is given WHEN a person believes savingly in Christ. iow, from the MOMENT one believes, they possess eternal life.

Then, in John 10:28, Jesus said recipients of eternal life (see Jn 5:24) SHALL NEVER PERISH.

So it is very clear that from the MOMENT of saving faith in Christ, the person possesses eternal life and they shall never perish.

I know this really bothers Arminian type thinking. However, let's consider 2 more verses that support eternal security.

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

We find the exact same words in both verses; "have not believed". Since there is no time frame for "not believing", it is obvious that the words mean "have NEVER believed".

So these 2 verses say clearly that condemnation (eternal) is for those who NEVER believed.

.

But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous thing