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OSAS does not survive the "sola scriptura" test. Now what?

Major1

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If He KEEPS ME SAVED that means I've lost my free will.
Do you believe we lose our free will once we become saved?
What if I decide I no longer wish to serve God?
Am I not allowed to leave Him?
What are all those IF's in the N.T. if not about salvation??

1 Corinthians 15:1-2
1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

Paul preached the gospel --- he calls his audience BRETHREN -they are saved persons.

Of course, they received the gospel thus they are saved.

Paul says that they also are saved by this gospel
IF they hold fast the word preached, unless they have believed in vain.

Paul is saying it not me.
I just post what he says.

You seem to be trying to say that OSAS is a license to sin.

Yes he calls them brethren, but once again you are reading into what he said.

Look at the words...…."unless you believed in vain."

Not everyone who says they are saved are in fact saved.

Jesus said as you already quoted recently...…."Depart fro me ye who work iniquity, I NEVER KNEW YOU!"

 
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Major1

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If He KEEPS ME SAVED that means I've lost my free will.
Do you believe we lose our free will once we become saved?
What if I decide I no longer wish to serve God?
Am I not allowed to leave Him?
What are all those IF's in the N.T. if not about salvation??

1 Corinthians 15:1-2
1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

Paul preached the gospel --- he calls his audience BRETHREN -they are saved persons.

Of course, they received the gospel thus they are saved.

Paul says that they also are saved by this gospel
IF they hold fast the word preached, unless they have believed in vain.

Paul is saying it not me.
I just post what he says.

1 John 2:19 ..........
"They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us."

Easy to understand isn't it????

It is 5:20 here in Central Fl. and it is time to go to church tonight.

I am done for the day and if you want to continue I will be glad to help you tomarrow.
 
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EmSw

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AGAIN, for the 3rd time......Ezekiel 33:18 is NOT referring to anyone losing their salvation.

God is saying there that when anyone of His children gets into sin, He (God) will judge him.

It does not say God will judge him; it say he will die. This is what another OSAS'er did in another post. He changed the words to fit what he wanted to believe. Why do y'all do that? Judgment comes after death.

That my friend is exactly what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 11:31.....
"For is we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged".

Did they have the Lord's supper in the OT?

And God says through John that there is a sin unto death in 1 John 5:16.

He is talking about a child of God there and the death is physical.Some Christians are judged for their sins by physical death when they refuse to follow the Lords leading =
"sin unto death.

Physical death is not a judgment. Everybody will die physically. Is that how everyone is judged? What sin did Jesus commit to die physically?

Then you say if a man would judge himself, he would not be judged, but yet, he will still die physically (God's judgment according to you). What sin has everyone who has ever lived committed that God judges physical death to all?

Now lets do as you suggested and check this out to see if I am correct.

Look now at Ezekiel 33:19, the very next verse after the one you used.

"BUT IF THE WICKED TURN...……".

Verse 18 was about a saved man committing sin and being judged with PHYSICAL death and not one word was said about losing his eternal salvation.

Read it for yourself my friend.

Doesn't hold water my friend.

Ezekiel 33
18 When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.
19 But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.


According to your belief, all the wicked who turn from their wickedness will never die a physical death. Either it's physical death for both the righteous and wicked, or it's spiritual death for both. You can't wiggle between the two just to make yourself happy.
 
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EmSw

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If the above is correct...please explain what sanctification is.
I believe in free will. The Holy Spirit will be there with us to set us apart to do God's work, however we must be willing to do it.
He will not force us to do it.

Here are plainly told what are sanctification is.

1 Thessalonians 4
3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:


It is God's will that we abstain from fornication, which is our sanctification. Each believe should know how to possess his vessel (body) in sanctification and honor.

It is the believer who chooses and actually abstains from fornication.
 
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GodsGrace101

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I think that the biggest rejecter of OSAS is the Roman Catholic Church.

As far as the existence before 1500 of osas, what difference doe it make?

Was salvation by grace alone presented by Luther any less valid because the RCC did not come up with it in the 1400 years it was in power.

The teachings of both are found in the Bible and it is over 2000 years old.

AGE does not prove truth my dear sister. Truth is truth regardless of the time it was presented.
Before I came here I was attending a Nazarene church, they do not believe in eternal security.
I do know that the Catholic church also agrees with this doctrine, I do believe the Lutheran church does also and some Baptist churches also do not accept eternal security, Assembly of God, Methodists, these churches do NOT believe in OSAS, and who knows how many others.

Christianity did not start in 1500 AD. It started right after Jesus ascended. So it IS important to know what the Apostolic fathers believed since they were in contact with either the Apostles or with those that knew them directly. Would you rather know about John Kennedy from a friend of his, or by a book written about him? The book can be interpreted in different ways (such as we're doing), but the friend would know what Kennedy thought about something.

The CC knew about grace. They just wanted to keep everybody under their thumb.

Here is what some Apostolic fathers thought about OSAS and works...which they also believed in.

Pseudo-Barnabas, A.D. 120 - 130
We take earnest heed in these last days, for the whole time of your faith will profit you nothing unless now, in this wicked time, we also withstand coming sources of danger, as befits the sons of God. (Letter of Barnabas 4)


Each person will receive as he has done. If he is righteous, his righteousness will precede him. If he is wicked, the reward of wickedness is before him. Take heed, lest resting at our ease as those who are the called ones, we should fall asleep in our sins, and the wicked prince should acquire power over us and thrust us away from the kingdom of the Lord. Consider this all the more, brothers, when you reflect and see that after such great signs and wonders were done in Israel, they were abandoned. Let us beware, lest we be found as it is written, "Many are called, but few are chosen" [Matt. 22:14]. (Letter of Barnabas 4)

He speaks of the great day of judgment, when they shall see those among us who were guilty of ungodliness and erred in their estimate of the commands of Jesus Christ.

The righteous will have succeeded both in enduring the trials and hating the indulgences of the soul. They will give glory to God when they witness how those who have swerved and denied Jesus by words or deeds are punished with grievous torments in unquenchable fire. They will give glory to their God and say, "There will be hope for him who has served God with his whole heart." (Second Clement 17)


Irenaeus, A.D. 183 - 186
We … ought ourselves to fear, lest by chance, after the knowledge of Christ, if we do things displeasing to God, we obtain no further forgiveness of sins, but be shut out from his kingdom. (Against Heresies, IV:27:2)

Irenaeus
wrote around 180 A.D. “Those who do not obey Him, being disinherited by Him, have ceased to be His
sons.”

“For the Lord has sworn by His glory, in regard to His elect, that if any one of them sin after a certain day which has been fixed, he will no be saved. For the repentance of the righteous has limits. Filled up are the days of repentance to all the saints. But to the unbeliever, repentance will be possible even to the last day… For the Lord has sworn by His Son, that those who denied their Lord have abandoned their life to despair.” ~ Hermas (c. 150)


“Only those who fear the Lord and keep His commandments have life with God; but as for those who do not keep His commandments, there is no life in them.” (Barnabas, A.D. 70)

There are so many more. They really should be read and learned. No one today knows more than the Apostolic fathers did.
 
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GodsGrace101

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Here are plainly told what are sanctification is.

1 Thessalonians 4
3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:


It is God's will that we abstain from fornication, which is our sanctification. Each believe should know how to possess his vessel (body) in sanctification and honor.

It is the believer who chooses and actually abstains from fornication.
I agree but it goes even beyond this.
We have free will. We cannot be sanctified unless, by our own free will, we cooperate with the Holy Spirit in the work He is doing in us.
 
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EmSw

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Once again I must correct you . You are trying to make Romans 2 say that it is about losing ones salvation.

Romans is not about salvation but it is about SIN and the basis on which God will judge men.

I thank God everyday that I am not going to be judged! I thank God for the Saviour, Jesus Christ.

Again, CONTEXT demand the correct exegesis of the passage. Look then at vere #2....
"But we are sure that the JUDGMENT of God is according to truth against THEM which commit such things".

WHAT THINGS???? SIN!

You are all over the place. In a post you wrote to me, you said God judges the righteous, and now you say you are not going to be judged. Which is it? Do you consider yourself a righteous man? How is it He will judge the righteous and not you?

What you have missed is that God will render TO EVERY MAN according to HIS DEEDS. Are you part of every man? If so, then He will render (give, recompense, pay off a debt or wage, requite) to you according to your deeds.

And what will He render? Eternal life to those who patiently continue in doing good. Indignation and wrath to those who do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness.
 
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EmSw

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I agree but it goes even beyond this.
We have free will. We cannot be sanctified unless, by our own free will, we cooperate with the Holy Spirit in the work He is doing in us.

It does go beyond this, including all unrighteousness. You won't get any argument from me about using our free will in cooperating with the HS.
 
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GodsGrace101

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1 John 2:19 ..........
"They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us."

Easy to understand isn't it????

It is 5:20 here in Central Fl. and it is time to go to church tonight.

I am done for the day and if you want to continue I will be glad to help you tomarrow.
THEY are anti-Christs.
Of course they didn't belong! (1 John 2:19)

Have a good time in church!
 
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EmSw

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You seem to be trying to say that OSAS is a license to sin.

We can sure test this M1.

You are of the OSAS belief. You consider yourself to be saved.

Now answer this question -

Can you, as a saved believer, murder people, lie every day to others, take your neighbor's wife and commit adultery with her every week, hate, deny, and even curse God, join a satanic cult and sacrifice babies, and continually steal from work, AND STILL BE SAVED AND TO TO HEAVEN?

A yes or no is all I want, no commentary please.
 
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GodsGrace101

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We can sure test this M1.

You are of the OSAS belief. You consider yourself to be saved.

Now answer this question -

Can you, as a saved believer, murder people, lie every day to others, take your neighbor's wife and commit adultery with her every week, hate, deny, and even curse God, join a satanic cult and sacrifice babies, and continually steal from work, AND STILL BE SAVED AND TO TO HEAVEN?

A yes or no is all I want, no commentary please.
LOL
You won't ever get a yes or no!

I've heard those believing in osas come right out and say they could even abandon God and they'd still be saved. And even if they lived a life of sin!
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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The thought that i must earn my salvation by good works, this distresses me, because im imperfect.

You have been blessed by God....most of the world is blind to the fact that they are imperfect.Some know it and will not admit it because of their pride.If you see you are a sinner who needs a Savior you have abandoned The Fools Paradise that Satan keeps most of the world in. It is the self-righteous lie that one may not be perfect, but he is “ good enough” to make the grade.You have been enlightened to the first half of the Gospel thAt is GUARANTEED by Jesus to save——- now go get the second half——1cor15:1-4 Run like crazy from those who add to this simple promise of Jesus that was revealed to Paul to tell to us.Adding to this Gospel perverts it and will get you in a TON of trouble. Simply Believe.It got Abraham saved and it will get you saved also. May God add to the wisdom He has already granted you!
 
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BobRyan

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You said...…………
Major1 said:
I believe personally and it is my opinion that animal sacrifices will resume in Israel after the Rapture but will end at Armageddon and will not be instituted in the New Heaven and New earth.
Then YOU said...……..
well that gets into eschatology -- the Bible says that at the rapture the wicked are destroyed and the saints taken to heaven "I looked and behold there was no man". An empty desolate earth for 1000 years. But that is another topic area.



That statement is completely in error and I disagree completely with it.

You are of course welcomed to your opinion.

The Bible does not say that the wicked are destroyed and the saints are taken to heaven.

Yes it does.

Wicked all destroyed at second coming.
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. 13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses. 15 From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. 16 And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in midheaven, “Come, assemble for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great.”

19 And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.

20 And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

And of course Matthew 24 and 1 Thess 4 both say that after the tribulation the saints taken to heaven - raptures "the dead in Christ rise first then we who are alive and remain caught up in the air" -- all saints taken to heaven at the 2nd coming.

Leaving no one alive on earth for that 1000 years.
====================

YES, ible says and teaches in many places that the saved will be removed and calls them the church. But then the Bible says that there will be SEVEN (7) years of God's wrath, known from the Scriptures as the TRIBULATION PEROID.

No it does not.

The Bible DOES NOT in any way say that the earth will thenbe desolate for 1000 years!!!!!!It says just the OPPOSITE.

Not true.




Ez 32:4-8
4 ""I will leave you on the land; I will cast you on the open field. And I will cause all the birds of the heavens to dwell on you, And I will satisfy the beasts of the whole earth with you.
5 ""I will lay your flesh on the mountains And fill the valleys with your refuse.
6 ""I will also make the land drink the discharge of your blood As far as the mountains, And the ravines will be full of you.
7 ""And when I extinguish you, I will cover the heavens and darken their stars; I will cover the sun with a cloud And the moon will not give its light.
8 ""All the shining lights in the heavens I will darken over you And will set darkness on your land,'' Declares the Lord GOD.



Jer 4:23

I looked on the earth, and behold, it was formless and void; And to the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking, And all the hills moved to and fro.
25 I looked, and behold, there was no man, And all the birds of the heavens had fled.

26 I looked, and behold, the fruitful land was a wilderness, And all its cities were pulled down Before the LORD, before His fierce anger.


Jer 25:33
""Those slain by the LORD on that day will be from one end of the earth to the other. They will not be lamented, gathered or buried; they will be like dung on the face of the ground.


Zeph 1:18
Neither their silver nor their gold Will be able to deliver them On the day of the LORD'S wrath; And all the earth will be devoured In the fire of His jealousy, For He will make a complete end, Indeed a terrifying one, Of all the inhabitants of the earth.

Isaiah 24
1 Behold, the LORD lays the earth waste, devastates it, distorts its surface and scatters its inhabitants.
2 And the people will be like the priest, the servant like his master, the maid like her mistress, the buyer like the seller, the lender like the borrower, the creditor like the debtor.
3 The earth will be completely laid waste and completely despoiled,



It is obviously a World Wide Calamity – world wide catastrophe

Isaiah 24
17 Terror and pit and snare Confront you, O inhabitant of the earth.
18 Then it will be that he who flees the report of disaster will fall into the pit, And he who climbs out of the pit will be caught in the snare; For the windows above are opened, and the foundations of the earth shake.
19 The earth is broken asunder, The earth is split through, The earth is shaken violently.
20 The earth reels to and fro like a drunkard And it totters like a shack, For its transgression is heavy upon it, And it will fall, never to rise again.
 
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jamesbond007

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The CC has never believed in limbo. This is something made up by human man and the church just went along with it because the CC was never too big on teaching.

The CC believes that we must trust God's mercy as to babies.
The whole problem started with Augustine of Hippo. He's the one who came up with the concept of original sin, so, since nothing with sin can enter heaven, the CC started to baptize babies so they would go to heaven if they died since they were born with imputed sin.

This, of course, is not true. The CC has made its position clear on this. If you have any question regarding the doctrine of the CC, you really should read the CCC and be careful what site you use on the internet. EWTN would be good, or any official Catholic site.

Limbo is not in the official doctrine, but it doesn't state that it's wrong to teach it. IOW, they leave it up to interpretation.

My parents sent me to a Catholic elementary school and they taught limbo. I looked it up again just to make sure before my last post, and the ruling bodies struggled with it and changed it to dead babies/children go to heaven in 2004. However, they did not make a ruling on teaching limbo (not the game where you bend down to go under a stick).

Interestingly, they never consulted the Bible, but went by church theology or tradition. In the vid I posted above St. Thomas Aquinas teaches limbo. Look at the documents Taylor Marshall uses in the article below.

http://taylormarshall.com/2007/10/do-we-believe-in-limbo.html

As for original sin, I'm going to stay quiet on that because I'm not a theologist nor have been keeping up with the modern Catholic Church. That is a huge deal.
 
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BobRyan

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Limbo is not in the official doctrine, but it doesn't state that it's wrong to teach it. IOW, they leave it up to interpretation.

My parents sent me to a Catholic elementary school and they taught limbo. I looked it up again just to make sure before my last post, and the ruling bodies struggled with it and changed it to dead babies/children go to heaven in 2004. However, they did not make a ruling on teaching limbo (not the game where you bend down to go under a stick).

Interestingly, they never consulted the Bible, but went by church theology or tradition. In the vid I posted above St. Thomas Aquinas teaches limbo. Look at the documents Taylor Marshall uses in the article below.

http://taylormarshall.com/2007/10/do-we-believe-in-limbo.html

As for original sin, I'm going to stay quiet on that because I'm not a theologist nor have been keeping up with the modern Catholic Church. That is a huge deal.

The RCC argument has been that infants are born with the guilt of original sin and therefore can not go to heaven without being infant sprinkle-baptized.

So then if you have been excommunicated and your infants born into your home cannot be sprinkled by priest with "powers" to mark the soul - you would have an infant at "risk".
 
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jamesbond007

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The best way to understand what you are looking for is to realize that the Protestant Church believes ALL doctrine comes from and is rooted in the Bible. IF a doctrine is being followed is not found in the Bible then it is rejected.

The Catholic religion on the other hand places as much authority in the TRADITINS OF MEN as it does the Bible.

You mentioned "Limbo" which is another name for PURGATORY. In the Bible there is no such thing as Purgatory. IT is not found and neither is there one single Scripture that even suggests such a thing is possible. It is a TRADITION which was thought up by men in the RCC in order to entertain "indulgences" and a way to make money from the family of those who had a death. When a certain amount of money was paid to the church, the church would then release the spirit of the dead person to heaven.

Now you have been advised to seek advise from Catholic web sites. If you do please understand that you will be told exactly what the RCC wants you to believe which is NOT BIBLICAL.

I would advise you to seek out totally independent sources and web sites which do not have a dog in the hunt and rely strictly on Scriptures and not the opinions of men.

Yes, I understand that and you stated it well, but Sola Scriptura isn't in the Bible either. What we learn as Christians is based on humans, too. I've heard Catholics Mother Theresa and Thomas Aquinas being ripped for their good works by Christians and that it doesn't help them get to heaven. That doesn't sound right to me, either. My example was of Richard Dawkins hypothetically recanting his atheism on his death bed and stating he believes in Jesus and prays for forgiveness. He is truly sorry and cries that he taught bad anti-theology and misled millions of people. His pretty young wife vouches that he did indeed do this and she thought he was sincere. Now, according to the Christian theology this is enough or is it? From Thomas Aquinas and the Bible,

"What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works?"

—James 2:14

Faith & Works

In this case, I would suspect that Richard Dawkins truly recanted and rip him to shreds for what he did in his life to believers and non-believers alike. He wouldn't die as a brother of mine even though he may be buried in Westminister Abbey. How can anybody claim that Dawkins will get into heaven? Maybe he will if he recanted his atheism, but the bottom line is that it doesn't seem fair.

The concept of purgatory seems like a fairer solution. A billion years of hard labor for Dawkins seems just. I know purgatory is part of official Catholic doctrine.
 
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bbbbbbb

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The RCC argument has been that infants are born with the guilt of original sin and therefore can not go to heaven without being infant sprinkle-baptized.

So then if you have been excommunicated and your infants born into your home cannot be sprinkled by priest with "powers" to mark the soul - you would have an infant at "risk".

Not at all. Have you not heard of baptism by desire?
 
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amariselle

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Yes, I understand that and you stated it well, but Sola Scriptura isn't in the Bible either. What we learn as Christians is based on humans, too. I've heard Catholics Mother Theresa and Thomas Aquinas being ripped for their good works by Christians and that it doesn't help them get to heaven. That doesn't sound right to me, either. My example was of Richard Dawkins hypothetically recanting his atheism on his death bed and stating he believes in Jesus and prays for forgiveness. He is truly sorry and cries that he taught bad anti-theology and misled millions of people. His pretty young wife vouches that he did indeed do this and she thought he was sincere. Now, according to the Christian theology this is enough or is it? From Thomas Aquinas and the Bible,

"What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works?"

—James 2:14

Faith & Works

In this case, I would suspect that Richard Dawkins truly recanted and rip him to shreds for what he did in his life to believers and non-believers alike. He wouldn't die as a brother of mine even though he may be buried in Westminister Abbey. How can anybody claim that Dawkins will get into heaven? Maybe he will if he recanted his atheism, but the bottom line is that it doesn't seem fair.

The concept of purgatory seems like a fairer solution. A billion years of hard labor for Dawkins seems just. I know purgatory is part of official Catholic doctrine.

The thing is, according to Scripture, we all deserve eternal damnation. All of us. Yet, many will gladly point their fingers at someone else and say “that person can’t possibly be saved, he/she doesn’t deserve it. It’s not fair Lord!”

And these people actually think they deserve to be saved themselves. Scripture says otherwise.

This perspective of unfairness also reminds me of this parable Jesus told:

1 For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.
2 And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.
3 And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,
4 And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.
5 Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.
6 And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?
7 They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.
8 So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.
9 And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.
10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.
11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,
12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?
14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.
15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?
16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
- Matthew 20:1-16
 
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GodsGrace101

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Limbo is not in the official doctrine, but it doesn't state that it's wrong to teach it. IOW, they leave it up to interpretation.

My parents sent me to a Catholic elementary school and they taught limbo. I looked it up again just to make sure before my last post, and the ruling bodies struggled with it and changed it to dead babies/children go to heaven in 2004. However, they did not make a ruling on teaching limbo (not the game where you bend down to go under a stick).

Interestingly, they never consulted the Bible, but went by church theology or tradition. In the vid I posted above St. Thomas Aquinas teaches limbo. Look at the documents Taylor Marshall uses in the article below.

http://taylormarshall.com/2007/10/do-we-believe-in-limbo.html

As for original sin, I'm going to stay quiet on that because I'm not a theologist nor have been keeping up with the modern Catholic Church. That is a huge deal.
JB
It's not up to interpretation. It doesn't exist. It's just that the catholic church never spoke out against it when the idea came up within the church. By the church, I mean the magisterium.
This was a mistake, of course. The CC has made many mistakes over this 2,000 year history. Thomas Aquinas is not the magesterium.

I did check out your site and it confirms my statement...
(an advisory body that carries zero theological weight or magisterial authority).

I'll repeat again that if you want to know OFFICIAL catholic theology, please consult the CCC. Online sites are probably the worst place to go to learn. Generally speaking...

It WAS a biblical idea. I'll say it again...
Augustine of Hippo, who was very much accepted by the CC, wrote a treatise and stated that babies that were not baptized would go to hell upon death because they had original sin.
Augustine invented original sin. So since nothing with sin can get into heaven and baptism was necessary to remove this original sin, babies could not go to heave.
Revelation 21:27

However, the church was always uncomfortable with this because the idea did not exist before him, and God's goodness and mercy was not taken into account. (about 400AD).

Please consult the CCC for further studies...not the internet.
 
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