Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
I'll be (or appear to be) self-conflicted (and illogical) then (though it's really not)...
Cause it is not saying what your saying... Your trying to twist it to make it mean something something else when it's really quite simple...
You can't lose what you never had, and what you (truly) have, you can't lose...
Let me ask you another question: Does God do the choosing, or do we...?
God Bless!
If you, or anyone else, wants to live their life in fear of losing the salvation of Christ, that He gave to you freely for asking... Go ahead.And "yet" not one single verse saying that all who are born again will "persevere firm to the end" or that those who "fall from grace are saved anyway".
They are if they are still born-again. If they have lost their salvation "severed from Christ" and "fallen from Grace" Gal 5:4... then they would no longer be saved.
"4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace." Gal 5:4 - NASB
Matthew 18 "forgiveness revoked"
31 So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done. 32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should repay all that was due to him.
35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”
Rom 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
Hebrews 6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
"every branch IN ME" - John 15
2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
Matthew 13
Parable of the Sower Explained
18 “Therefore hear the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. 20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.
Ezek 18
24 “But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.
25 “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ Hear now, O house of Israel, is it not My way which is fair, and your ways which are not fair? 26 When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies in it, it is because of the iniquity which he has done that he dies. 27 Again, when a wicked man turns away from the wickedness which he committed, and does what is lawful and right, he preserves himself alive. 28 Because he considers and turns away from all the transgressions which he committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
========================
Isaiah 5
What more could have been done to My vineyard
That I have not done in it?
Why then, when I expected it to bring forth good grapes,
Did it bring forth wild grapes?
5 And now, please let Me tell you what I will do to My vineyard:
I will take away its hedge, and it shall be burned;
And break down its wall, and it shall be trampled down.
6 I will lay it waste;
The Calvinist has "The answer" to God's lament where God says "what MORE could I have done.. that I have not done?"
The OSAS model says "you could have turned them into robots...'
In Christ's Sermon on the Mount, the people were advised to be concerned about doing things today and not to worry about how it might be worse tomorrow, for tomorrow will take care of itself (Matt. 6). The human mind can not comprehend being saved forever. One has a chance, if one can do God's will today.
That's what hope is, right?
I don't think so. When the Savior of the world, the Messiah, the one the disciples followed (and ultimately gave their lives for), said to trust him, I do not think it meant "Keep your hopes up that it might happen". (!)
If God were going to hold on to you to the point of revoking your free will... then He should have done that with Lucifer to start with and saved us all a boat load of trouble - including the death of God the Son.
But as it is - God chose a free will model for His creation.
And "yet" not one single verse saying that all who are born again will "persevere firm to the end" or that those who "fall from grace are saved anyway".
They are if they are still born-again. If they have lost their salvation "severed from Christ" and "fallen from Grace" Gal 5:4... then they would no longer be saved.
"4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace." Gal 5:4 - NASB
Matthew 18 "forgiveness revoked"
31 So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done. 32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should repay all that was due to him.
35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”
Rom 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
Hebrews 6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
"every branch IN ME" - John 15
2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
Matthew 13
Parable of the Sower Explained
18 “Therefore hear the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. 20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.
Ezek 18
24 “But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.
25 “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ Hear now, O house of Israel, is it not My way which is fair, and your ways which are not fair? 26 When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies in it, it is because of the iniquity which he has done that he dies. 27 Again, when a wicked man turns away from the wickedness which he committed, and does what is lawful and right, he preserves himself alive. 28 Because he considers and turns away from all the transgressions which he committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
========================
Isaiah 5
What more could have been done to My vineyard
That I have not done in it?
Why then, when I expected it to bring forth good grapes,
Did it bring forth wild grapes?
5 And now, please let Me tell you what I will do to My vineyard:
I will take away its hedge, and it shall be burned;
And break down its wall, and it shall be trampled down.
6 I will lay it waste;
The Calvinist has "The answer" to God's lament where God says "what MORE could I have done.. that I have not done?"
The OSAS model says "you could have turned them into robots...'
That's pretty good deduction. Surprising how a few 10's of thousands of other men studying God's word must have missed that. What I also know is that it is as simple as this. All of those children orphaned and digging in piles of garbage looking for something to eat, a million shepherds on the hill side, all the moms in the world drawing water from the well or tending a fire since Adam and Eve have the Love of God residing over them. Every man who ever drew in a net but could not write their name, can still understand that the Bible was placed here for man to understand God's love, Gods laws, and God's grace. And even the most simple man or woman, with no education, can receive eternal salvation through believing in Jesus Christ. No ritual, no intense beatings or waving of a flag, not even missing the Eucharist nor any other man can give or take that away. So we can convolute the Word of God, twist it, take it out of context, try as we might but the eternal message is this. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." Whosoever Believeth and Everlasting Life. Gifts of Love from God. Not man's to give nor take away. Not mans to control. Live showing God's love through the Grace of Jesus Christ and all of those words will mean something.And "yet" not one single verse saying that all who are born again will "persevere firm to the end" or that those who "fall from grace are saved anyway".
They are if they are still born-again. If they have lost their salvation "severed from Christ" and "fallen from Grace" Gal 5:4... then they would no longer be saved.
"4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace." Gal 5:4 - NASB
Matthew 18 "forgiveness revoked"
31 So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done. 32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should repay all that was due to him.
35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”
Rom 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
Hebrews 6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
"every branch IN ME" - John 15
2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
Matthew 13
Parable of the Sower Explained
18 “Therefore hear the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. 20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.
Ezek 18
24 “But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.
25 “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ Hear now, O house of Israel, is it not My way which is fair, and your ways which are not fair? 26 When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies in it, it is because of the iniquity which he has done that he dies. 27 Again, when a wicked man turns away from the wickedness which he committed, and does what is lawful and right, he preserves himself alive. 28 Because he considers and turns away from all the transgressions which he committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
========================
Isaiah 5
What more could have been done to My vineyard
That I have not done in it?
Why then, when I expected it to bring forth good grapes,
Did it bring forth wild grapes?
5 And now, please let Me tell you what I will do to My vineyard:
I will take away its hedge, and it shall be burned;
And break down its wall, and it shall be trampled down.
6 I will lay it waste;
The Calvinist has "The answer" to God's lament where God says "what MORE could I have done.. that I have not done?"
The OSAS model says "you could have turned them into robots...'
The Arminian DOES know better that he is saved today because it's up to HIM to stay with God or decide to abandon God.If God were going to hold on to you to the point of revoking your free will... then He should have done that with Lucifer to start with and saved us all a boat load of trouble - including the death of God the Son.
But as it is - God chose a free will model for His creation.
===================
second point. The "special case" of someone who is born again then perseveres firm to the end -- being a case of OSAS - is not debated by either side of this discussion. That is a "given".
The debate is over the one who "is born again.. then is severed from Christ... fallen from grace... experiencing forgiveness revoked...cut off from Christ and burned in the fire".
====================
Third point. The 3-point and 5-point Calvinist that you describe above - has a special "problem". They "retro-delete" today's assurance of salvation when they find out that 20 years from today they failed to persevere.
The Arminian can know that he is saved today - but cannot know if he will persevere firm to the end -- 20 years from today.
The 3 and 5 point Calvinist you describe cannot even know that -- because until he finds out that he persevered 20 years from today - he cannot know that his assurance today is even real.
You know what Jiiminz? Yeah I think I do! You're talking to someone who worked part-time many years ago for a store called, "Dominion" so I think I know somewhat of what it's about.Adam and Eve had what was given to them by God Himself, DOMINION you do know what Dominion is don't you?
Nope Free Will works wherever there is LOVE and God is LOVE. That is not to say creative beings can over ride the consequences of their actions or to do things they don't have a capacity to do. If one offers another an ability to walk or achieve things of a higher capacity that's within the free will's ability to receive.Your precious Free Will only works within the framework, parameters of Dominion.
Not on the level that the OT Law requires and that is absolute perfection. Now about keeping God's law through the Spirit of God's love that's a higher capacity God grants when we choose to receive it or really when we choose to receive him. Consider it this way....if I was told to run at a speed of 60 miles and hour I can't do it. IMPOSSIBLE! If however I was offered the keys of an automobile I can with my FREE WILL reach out and receive them, the keys which in essence is really the car the higher capacity. We choose to receive Christ and yes God is drawing but it's still our choice to receive or reject.Now you tell me.
1) Does Free Will afford the Un-Saved person the ability to stop sinning, I mean, is this person capable of determining within himself that he is going to stop sinning, can he do it as an Un-Saved person?
Well to use my illustration above I can't choose to step out of the car and run 60 miles an hour. If I choose to stay in Christ, Paul himself exhorted us to, "Walk in the Spirit" (or stay in the car or function in that higher capacity) and yes that is something we daily have to choose to do. Nobody is going to do it for you including God.2) Does Free Will afford the Saved person the ability to stop sinning, I mean, is this person capable of determining within himself that he is going to stop sinning, can he do it as an Saved person?
Well no, can't agree with you there. God in his word in various places is exhorting us to sin not. What's wrong with a saint coming into agreement with God and to seek and endeavor to keep God's word that is by declaring who and what they are In Christ Jesus. That takes an act of the will to do that but such acknowledgments to God with thanksgiving causes the release of Gods light, life and power causing one to overcome.The end of the matter is, when a person Determines within himself that he is going to stop sinning, then he has in effect set up a Law for himself, saying I will not do this or that thing again.
Agreed but like I've shared we can choose to receive Christ but each step of sanctification we have to cooperate with God to allow his power to bring victory. Daily choices every moment and hour of the day.Mankind is not capable of keeping Law, be it Gods' Law or our own, if it were possible to do so, then we would not have needed a Savior...
The Arminian DOES know better that he is saved today because it's up to HIM to stay with God or decide to abandon God.
The calvinist won't know he's saved until the end of his life to see if he persevered and it depends on God, so he cannot be sure if he's saved...even today.
Rubbish. Nothing more than cookie cutting theology. .
That's pretty good deduction. Surprising how a few 10's of thousands of other men studying God's word must have missed that.
What I also know is that it is as simple as this. All of those children orphaned and digging in piles of garbage looking for something to eat, a million shepherds on the hill side, all the moms in the world drawing water from the well or tending a fire since Adam and Eve have the Love of God residing over them. Every man who ever drew in a net but could not write their name, can still understand that the Bible was placed here for man to understand God's love, Gods laws, and God's grace. And even the most simple man or woman, with no education, can receive eternal salvation through believing in Jesus Christ. No ritual, no intense beatings or waving of a flag, not even missing the Eucharist nor any other man can give or take that away. So we can convolute the Word of God, twist it, take it out of context, try as we might but the eternal message is this. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." Whosoever Believeth and Everlasting Life. Gifts of Love from God. Not man's to give nor take away. Not mans to control. Live showing God's love through the Grace of Jesus Christ and all of those words will mean something.
Judas would say God does the choosing.
And then you have the little-known doctrine of Calvin of "evanescent grace" or "temporal grace", where God gives the reprobate an inferior grace so that they *think* they are saved, when they indeed are not. For example, from Calvin's Institutes (Book III, Chapter II, Section 11):The Arminian DOES know better that he is saved today because it's up to HIM to stay with God or decide to abandon God.
The calvinist won't know he's saved until the end of his life to see if he persevered and it depends on God, so he cannot be sure if he's saved...even today.
Which in a sense renders the whole "assurance of salvation" thing moot, at least in John Calvin's theology. How do you know that you're not just a reprobate victim to evanescent grace? Granted, I've never heard Calvinist preachers preach on evanescent grace, but it is still the legacy of Calvin.I am aware it seems unaccountable to some how faith is attributed to the reprobate, seeing that it is declared by Paul to be one of the fruits of election; and yet the difficulty is easily solved. [...]
But in this there is nothing to prevent an inferior operation of the Spirit from taking its course in the reprobate. Meanwhile, believers are taught to examine themselves carefully and humbly, lest carnal security creep in and take the place of assurance of faith. We may add, that the reprobate never have any other than a confused sense of grace, laying hold of the shadow rather than the substance, because the Spirit properly seals the forgiveness of sins in the elect only, applying it by special faith to their use. Still it is correctly said, that the reprobate believe God to be propitious to them, inasmuch as they accept the gift of reconciliation, though confusedly and without due discernment; not that they are partakers of the same faith or regeneration with the children of God; but because, under a covering of hypocrisy, they seem to have a principle of faith in common with them. Nor do I even deny that God illumines their minds to this extent, that they recognize his grace; but that conviction he distinguishes from the peculiar testimony which he gives to his elect in this respect, that the reprobate never attain to the full result or to fruition. [...] Thus we dispose of the objection, that if God truly displays his grace, it must endure for ever. There is nothing inconsistent in this with the fact of his enlightening some with a present sense of grace, which afterwards proves evanescent.
Well, actually, not so funny.And then you have the little-known doctrine of Calvin of "evanescent grace" or "temporal grace", where God gives the reprobate an inferior grace so that they *think* they are saved, when they indeed are not. For example, from Calvin's Institutes (Book III, Chapter II, Section 11):
Which in a sense renders the whole "assurance of salvation" thing moot, at least in John Calvin's theology. How do you know that you're not just a reprobate victim to evanescent grace? Granted, I've never heard Calvinist preachers preach on evanescent grace, but it is still the legacy of Calvin.
And "yet" not one single verse saying that all who are born again will "persevere firm to the end" or that those who "fall from grace are saved anyway".
They are if they are still born-again. If they have lost their salvation "severed from Christ" and "fallen from Grace" Gal 5:4... then they would no longer be saved.
"4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace." Gal 5:4 - NASB
Matthew 18 "forgiveness revoked"
31 So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done. 32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should repay all that was due to him.
35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”
Rom 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
Hebrews 6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
"every branch IN ME" - John 15
2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
Matthew 13
Parable of the Sower Explained
18 “Therefore hear the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. 20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.
Ezek 18
24 “But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.
25 “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ Hear now, O house of Israel, is it not My way which is fair, and your ways which are not fair? 26 When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies in it, it is because of the iniquity which he has done that he dies. 27 Again, when a wicked man turns away from the wickedness which he committed, and does what is lawful and right, he preserves himself alive. 28 Because he considers and turns away from all the transgressions which he committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
========================
Isaiah 5
What more could have been done to My vineyard
That I have not done in it?
Why then, when I expected it to bring forth good grapes,
Did it bring forth wild grapes?
5 And now, please let Me tell you what I will do to My vineyard:
I will take away its hedge, and it shall be burned;
And break down its wall, and it shall be trampled down.
6 I will lay it waste;
The Calvinist has "The answer" to God's lament where God says "what MORE could I have done.. that I have not done?"
The OSAS model says "you could have turned them into robots...'
Hebrews, another excellent letter to refute "works-based" salvation. Let's start at the beginning of that chapter:
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God...-Hebrews 6:1
Here is how that chapter ends:
17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. - Hebrews 6:17-18
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?