OSAS Discussion

[Buzz_B]

I will ask you, do you think when you are in that house of God that you never sin?
No to this last question, of course he is talking to all the believers and also for the benefit of those that say they are saved and are living habitual sinful lifestyles. But there are saved persons who need to forsake the deeds of the flesh and grow up and live the life style that they profess to believe in. Do you think that people in the body of Christ never sin? Are they lost because of committing a sin? If you no, but if they do it again, are they still saved? Which sin or number of sins makes a saint an ain't? The flesh is a battle throughout ones life times, no one ever reaches the sinless state in their walk on earth, at least I know none that believe they are perfect in their walk, but I know many who know their perfection is in the imputed righteousness of our Savior Jesus Christ. I let those who think they are perfect and don't sin answer that, but if they would let me walk with them for a short time, I would make it evident to them that they are not sinless in their actions. Self righteous people are overly blind to their actions and what actions they will admit to are sinful. Nevertheless, Jesus is my righteousness, sanctification, redemption and wisdom from God as shown in 1 Cor 1:30 -31 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— 31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.”

well then, it sounds as if you agree that Paul was speaking of the house of God in the flesh and if so, I agree.

I am one that understands that imputation of righteousness, also. But I also know that it is not enough just to know we are imputed that righteousness if we do not understand that the purpose of that imputation is to cover us while we grow in knowledge and wisdom from God so as to gradually perfect our inner man. That imputation will be taken away if we treat Christ's sacrifice as though it were of little value by continuing deliberately to live for the enjoyment of our favorite sins.

I was hoping you would agree that house is indeed the house of God because i wanted to point you back to 1 Corinthians chapter 3 and the first few verses of 2 Corinthians 5 to ponder the three parts of Scripture side by side. You could be one of the few first to learn something new there. I just wanted to tell you that and then leave you to do it. I doubt you will get it but maybe you will. I think yeshuaslavejeff is ready to see it. Pay particular attention to the contrast made at 2 Corinthians 5:1 "For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."

As you ponder what was said at 2 Timothy 2:19-26 and 1 Corinthians 3:6-21 with that contrast in mind. The building we await "an house not made with hands", as compared to this earthly house which evidently was what if the one we await is contrasted as not being made with hands? Look for the hands that did the building of the earthly house in 1 Cor 3. And from 1 Cor 3 also notice how it is that as Paul said there at 2 Tim 2:19-26, there came to be both honorable and dishonorable vessels in the earthly house of God. And understand then what that house really is there in 2 Cor 5 that we have so long confused as our own individual bodies. Understand that the presence of dishonorable vessels in this earthly house of God does indeed make us groan in it and does make us desire that perfected one above.

Try it, and beg God to help you see anything you might have been missing seeing as you ponder those sections I have named. See what you might find. Then we can talk about it.

 

[iwbswiaihl2]

well then, it sounds as if you agree that Paul was speaking of the house of God in the flesh and if so, I agree.

I am one that understands that imputation of righteousness, also. But I also know that it is not enough just to know we are imputed that righteousness if we do not understand that the purpose of that imputation is to cover us while we grow in knowledge and wisdom from God so as to gradually perfect our inner man. That imputation will be taken away if we treat Christ's sacrifice as though it were of little value by continuing deliberately to live for the enjoyment of our favorite sins.

I was hoping you would agree that house is indeed the house of God because i wanted to point you back to 1 Corinthians chapter 3 and the first few verses of 2 Corinthians 5 to ponder the three parts of Scripture side by side. You could be one of the few first to learn something new there. I just wanted to tell you that and then leave you to do it. I doubt you will get it but maybe you will. I think yeshuaslavejeff is ready to see it. Pay particular attention to the contrast made at 2 Corinthians 5:1 "For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."

As you ponder what was said at 2 Timothy 2:19-26 and 1 Corinthians 3:6-21 with that contrast in mind. The building we await "an house not made with hands", as compared to this earthly house which evidently was what if the one we await is contrasted as not being made with hands? Look for the hands that did the building of the earthly house in 1 Cor 3. And from 1 Cor 3 also notice how it is that as Paul said there at 2 Tim 2:19-26, there came to be both honorable and dishonorable vessels in the earthly house of God. And understand then what that house really is there in 2 Cor 5 that we have so long confused as our own individual bodies. Understand that the presence of dishonorable vessels in this earthly house of God does indeed make us groan in it and does make us desire that perfected one above.

Try it, and beg God to help you see anything you might have been missing seeing as you ponder those sections I have named. See what you might find. Then we can talk about it.

First off, 1 Cor 3:16-1716 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. Being the temple of God indeed the Holy Spirit dwells in us, and we notice that there can be And he goes on to shows that each works will be tested to see whether good or bad, wood hay or stubble, or gold, etc. And states that works of the flesh, hay wood stubble will be burned, but you notice, but he himself will be saved; 1 Cor 3:12-15 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. Do you have ears to hear? but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

2Cor5:1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. Our earthly bodies, and we are waiting for the redemption of our earthly bodies when they will be changed as in 1Cor 15:42-44 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 1 Cor 15:41-44 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead(their bodies, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, their spirits) will be raised incorruptible, and we(each of the saved) shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

I see nothing new which I did not know and believe already, hope you noticed, yet they shall be saved so as by fire. He who began the good work in you will perform it unto the end. For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works which God has before ordained that should walk in them. This is a fundamental teaching in scripture. Just because when explaining some texts it is not mentioned does not negate the teaching, but is a first fruit of the gospel, baby food, once leaving the elementary teaching of salvation we will press on if the little ones will grow up and desire the meat of the word.

 

[Buzz_B]

First off, 1 Cor 3:16-1716 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. Being the temple of God indeed the Holy Spirit dwells in us, and we notice that there can be And he goes on to shows that each works will be tested to see whether good or bad, wood hay or stubble, or gold, etc. And states that works of the flesh, hay wood stubble will be burned, but you notice, but he himself will be saved; 1 Cor 3:12-15 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. Do you have ears to hear? but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

2Cor5:1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. Our earthly bodies, and we are waiting for the redemption of our earthly bodies when they will be changed as in 1Cor 15:42-44 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 1 Cor 15:41-44 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead(their bodies, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, their spirits) will be raised incorruptible, and we(each of the saved) shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

I see nothing new which I did not know and believe already, hope you noticed, yet they shall be saved so as by fire. He who began the good work in you will perform it unto the end. For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works which God has before ordained that should walk in them. This is a fundamental teaching in scripture. Just because when explaining some texts it is not mentioned does not negate the teaching, but is a first fruit of the gospel, baby food, once leaving the elementary teaching of salvation we will press on if the little ones will grow up and desire the meat of the word.

I note that even Jehovah's Witnesses teach it as you do in explaining 2 Corinthians 5:1 and on that point they are as wrong as you are.

You don't really think about what you are asked to think about. I know you think you do but you don't. You cannot, for you don't know how to lay down what you already believe for just a moment to enable you to inspect a differing view. In the description of Babylon the Great Revelation 18:2 speaks of her being "a cage of every unclean and hateful bird." Buzzards screech as they go about in search of meat to rend. These unclean and hated birds not only sin but they sin freely with the excuse that they are imperfect rather than grow holy in Christ. They believe they are made holy strictly of God and that they need do nothing toward being holy to advance in holiness and move forward to perfection because they twist Paul's words in Romans 7 to their support not understanding that Paul is there speaking of the man under law before Christ. And they screech loudly when any of God's servants try to help them understand for they do not want to hear a true servants words. They go after God's servants as if they are carcasses to be attacked and rend and tare at them like pieces of meat even as Jesus described at the swine at Matthew 7:6. And for that reason God's servants have become popularized as mere carcasses in the eyes of all these unclean birds persuade. That is why God's true servants are pictured as a carcass, here: Matthew 24:28 "For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together." The carcass is there God's true servants in Christ and those who are sharp-sighted like eagles can see where they are.

Now revisit post 261. But I see you and I know what you will likely do. That "but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire", is speaking of the unwise builder of God's earthly house. Lets read it together and this time really tune in to examine it:

(1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned,) What work? His work on building God's earthly house. Compare:
1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

Now your mind is trying to rush ahead to verse 11 and forward as I know you. Resist that and pay attention. Paul was not the only preacher of God's word. All of those first century Christians who could preach, did preach in the market places and where ever they could find unbelievers to hear them for they all helped to build the earthly court of God's temple in this imperfect flesh. So it ridiculous not to understand that at 1 Cor 3:10 Paul is saying that those he brought into the church became builders also. And when they trusted only in God's wisdom they brought in gold, silver, precious stones. But when they were unwise and trusted in their own or the world's wisdom as verses 18-20 mentions, then they brought in wood, hay, stubble.

But I do not know why I am bothering sharing this with you for I know you. I know what you will do with it. But perhaps there is one out there that will think about it and benefit.

 

[iwbswiaihl2]

I note that even Jehovah's Witnesses teach it as you do in explaining 2 Corinthians 5:1 and on that point they are as wrong as you are.

You don't really think about what you are asked to think about. I know you think you do but you don't. You cannot, for you don't know how to lay down what you already believe for just a moment to enable you to inspect a differing view. In the description of Babylon the Great Revelation 18:2 speaks of her being "a cage of every unclean and hateful bird." Buzzards screech as they go about in search of meat to rend. These unclean and hated birds not only sin but they sin freely with the excuse that they are imperfect rather than grow holy in Christ. They believe they are made holy strictly of God and that they need do nothing toward being holy to advance in holiness and move forward to perfection because they twist Paul's words in Romans 7 to their support not understanding that Paul is there speaking of the man under law before Christ. And they screech loudly when any of God's servants try to help them understand for they do not want to hear a true servants words. They go after God's servants as if they are carcasses to be attacked and rend and tare at them like pieces of meat even as Jesus described at the swine at Matthew 7:6. And for that reason God's servants have become popularized as mere carcasses in the eyes of all these unclean birds persuade. That is why God's true servants are pictured as a carcass, here: Matthew 24:28 "For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together." The carcass is there God's true servants in Christ and those who are sharp-sighted like eagles can see where they are.

Now revisit post 261. But I see you and I know what you will likely do. That "but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire", is speaking of the unwise builder of God's earthly house. Lets read it together and this time really tune in to examine it:

(1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned,) What work? His work on building God's earthly house. Compare:
1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

Now your mind is trying to rush ahead to verse 11 and forward as I know you. Resist that and pay attention. Paul was not the only preacher of God's word. All of those first century Christians who could preach, did preach in the market places and where ever they could find unbelievers to hear them for they all helped to build the earthly court of God's temple in this imperfect flesh. So it ridiculous not to understand that at 1 Cor 3:10 Paul is saying that those he brought into the church became builders also. And when they trusted only in God's wisdom they brought in gold, silver, precious stones. But when they were unwise and trusted in their own or the world's wisdom as verses 18-20 mentions, then they brought in wood, hay, stubble.

But I do not know why I am bothering sharing this with you for I know you. I know what you will do with it. But perhaps there is one out there that will think about it and benefit.

Perhaps, but something Paul said comes to mind, God forbid! Let them just read it in context and let the Holy Spirit teach them the true application that walks hand in hand with His other teachings.

 

[Buzz_B]

Perhaps, but something Paul said comes to mind, God forbid! Let them just read it in context and let the Holy Spirit teach them the true application that walks hand in hand with His other teachings.

Yes, that is what I see you do every time, over and over. I see you. It would be impossible not to know you, being as you are so very consistent in the things you reply. Happy sailing friend but there are rough seas ahead.