OSAS Discussion

[LostMarbels]

I want to understand the disconnect here. I almost feel as we are arguing the same point from a differnt perspective. So tell me what you think. I am thinking that if we have a more defined and stated position, we may have a better conversation seeing that an individual that has voted has stated their belief. There is then no question from where they are coming from once it has been made known.

 

[Basil the Great]

I commend the OP for a very long list of options, though I guess even more options could have been listed.

 

[RC1970]

John 10:27-30
Romans 8:31-39
Philippians 1:6
2 Timothy 2:14-19
Hebrews 9:11-15

 

[HereIStand]

Good broad perspective. Often it seems, OSAS is represented uncharitably as license. My belief is that assurance should be stressed as primary, otherwise no one could have any confidence in faith. Yet, we should never presume that we can do or believe whatever we want and still think of ourselves as Christians.

 

[LostMarbels]

I commend the OP for a very long list of options.

Thanks. I missed: Works are as important as grace tho.

I'm not here to toot my own horn or get you to swallow what I have chewed. I don't see the disconnect. I am hoping to get enough votes that we can see a pattern of belief, and maybe come to a consensus.

 

[Basil the Great]

Thanks. I missed: Works are as important as grace tho.

I'm not here to toot my own horn or get you to swallow what I have chewed. I don't see the disconnect. I am hoping to get enough votes that we can see a pattern of belief, and maybe come to a consensus.

Yes, that is the one that I thought of that you missed.

 

[LostMarbels]

Good broad perspective. Often it seems, OSAS is represented uncharitably as license. My belief is that assurance should be stressed as primary, otherwise no one could have any confidence in faith. Yet, we should never presume that we can do or believe whatever we want and still think of ourselves as Christians.

I agree with this. I am wondering if OSAS is seen as too much latitude?

 

[LostMarbels]

Yes, that is the one that I thought of that you missed.

Ohhh what am I missing on the edit screen? I can't seem to edit it.

But a very valid point. Thanks for bringing it up.
Is that how you feel?

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Hmmmm. Ya got chapter and verse for that viewpoint...”works as important as grace”
“ by grace you are saved through faith Lest any man should boast”

 

[HereIStand]

I agree with this. I am wondering if OSAS is seen as too much latitude?

I think so. In growing up, the OSAS-teaching church and school that I attended taught that sins after salvation only mean a loss of rewards in heaven. This doesn't seem like a good perspective. Heavenly rewards should be seen as a gain, not a loss.

 

[LostMarbels]

Hmmmm. Ya got chapter and verse for that viewpoint...”works as important as grace”
“ by grace you are saved through faith Lest any man should boast”

I do not intend to subject bias onto a poll I post. Someone may feel that way so I give them an opportunity to express their own veiw. That is how we get discussions going.

 

[Basil the Great]

Ohhh what am I missing on the edit screen? I can't seem to edit it.

But a very valid point. Thanks for bringing it up.
Is that how you feel?

Yes, I would probably have voted for that option.

 

[Basil the Great]

Hmmmm. Ya got chapter and verse for that viewpoint...”works as important as grace”
“ by grace you are saved through faith Lest any man should boast”

I know said verse well, as we all do, but it comes from Paul, not Jesus. Jesus said in Matthew 7:21, "Not everyone who saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven". Judaism teaches that God cares more for our deeds than what we believe. Jesus was a Jew and I find nothing in his teachings which leads me to believe that he emphasized faith over deeds. At the very least, our deeds are just as important as our faith, aka God's grace.

 

[LostMarbels]

Yes, I would probably have voted for that option.

I am assuming that you rely on the fact that without works faith is dead. Now how do we relate that to OSAS? Are your works necessary for salvation? Or are the evidentiary to the fact of being saved?

Im of the latter mindset. Our works are filthy rags, and yet, they prove our salvation and faith in God.

 

[Basil the Great]

So sorry..... I see what you mean. I misunderstood. I changed my vote, but I do not personally believe in OSAS, nor do I believe that faith is more important than works.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

I don’t recall attributing my quote to Jesus....if I did I apologize for the error...
Practice faith....works will follow...God bless

 

[Basil the Great]

I don’t recall attributing my quote to Jesus....if I did I apologize for the error...
Practice faith....works will follow...God bless

No, you did not attribute the quote to Jesus. I was just contrasting Paul's words with those of Jesus, at least in the one instance I quoted, but there are others I could have quoted. However..... this thread is probably not the proper place discuss the matter at length. Yes, I know that my position is a rare one, especially for a Protestant, but it is how I honestly feel. I certainly do not expect to convince anyone that I am right. I know better than that after many decades of discussing the Christian faith.

 

[Radagast]

I want to understand the disconnect here. I almost feel as we are arguing the same point from a differnt perspective. So tell me what you think. I am thinking that if we have a more defined and stated position, we may have a better conversation seeing that an individual that has voted has stated their belief.

So you're getting people who don't believe in or understand the doctrine to vote on what they think it is?

 

[LostMarbels]

So sorry..... I see what you mean. I misunderstood. I changed my vote, but I do not personally believe in OSAS, nor do I believe that faith is more important than works.

Ok so please show me the disconnect. What is the difference in our opinions?

I am of the opinion the confession of Jesus Christ alone leads to salvation.

BUT, there are those that appear sincere in their confession that do not follow through with their confession and are not really confessing Christ. What they are confessing is a lifestyle and a belief system. There are many things and obstacles that are in their way that they do not want to deal with. Instead they are christian because it feels good. It suites them, and they don't realy feel the need to live godly, well because they already are one of the good guys. They dress nice and go to church, and even read the bible. But they have not made the decision to give everything to God. God is just a part of their life, not Lord and Master over their life.

Then there are those that confess Jesus openly, and make themselves subjugated to his authority. This is salvation. You were bought with a price. Therefore you are not your own but you Master's that bought you. These are the individuals that have decide to cast everything aside for Jesus. They are willing to confess Jesus knowing full well they might be beheaded. Or they may have to witness the same of their loved ones. They will continue, and strive to strengthen their relationship with God, and old wants and desires become no longer desirable. They do not want to hear preaching from a pulpit that is discordant with the spirit they have received. These are the ones that hunger and thirst for the righteousness of God, and will see His kingdom. These are the ones that will not lose their salvation. Unless they literally flip God a bird and denounce him, their salvation is assured. So, OSAS.

uk 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
Luk 14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
Luk 14:30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
Luk 14:31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
Luk 14:32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.
Luk 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

Consider the cost. Absolutely nothing is more precious than Christ. You are required to go to your own execution. You are required to love Christ more than your own family, and all of your earthly possessions. If you cannot commit to that. Then you are not worthy to follow Christ. Jesus's own words.

It is simple. If you chose to love something more than God, you have chosen that thing over God. But if you love God more than anything else you are his child forever. OSAS

 

[Basil the Great]

One does not have to believe in the doctrine in order to understand it. I was just expressing my view of it. I changed my vote in accordance with how I understand the doctrine and based upon the votes, it looks like my vote falls in the mainstream.